The Native Issue...Deux.

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
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Nakusp, BC
One of the main problems I see with native self governance is the imposed so called democratic system. Many of the old tribes had a council of elders, some were matriarchal and some patriarchal. Cheifs were temporary positions that had to do with fishing, hunting, berry picking or war. That system left no room for personal ambition or greed. If bands are to have self governance, they should have the choice of which type of governance they wish and not be bound by our antiquated and corruptible brand.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
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Vancouver Island
One of the main problems I see with native self governance is the imposed so called democratic system. Many of the old tribes had a council of elders, some were matriarchal and some patriarchal. Cheifs were temporary positions that had to do with fishing, hunting, berry picking or war. That system left no room for personal ambition or greed. If bands are to have self governance, they should have the choice of which type of governance they wish and not be bound by our antiquated and corruptible brand.

Do you think there is a brand that isn't corruptible? Especially when there are billions of dollars involved.
If you find one could we apply it to all levels of government?
 

weaselwords

Electoral Member
Nov 10, 2009
518
4
18
salisbury's tavern
This is where the problem begins, what are the parameters? Is each band self governing or is it each tribe, or each tribe & band within a geographical territory or possibly an all encompassing United Nations of Aboriginal Peoples of Canada. Where do Metis fit in, they are Aboriginal only by exclusive definition.
The leaders who signed treaties were not stupid people, they could see the writing on the wall regarding culture, territory & way of life. I think they understood bending instead of breaking and were willing to work to a mutual goal of a better life for all.
Things have gotten in the way of that vision such the prosletysing, the attempt at Anglization, forced relocation & native schools. These things for the most part are a sad part of history. Today's problems are as much created by Aboriginals as by the government eg Casinos & revenue sharing, tobacco smuggling, band heirarchy graft & fraud. First thing to do is tear up the Indian Act & start over.
 

Ariadne

Council Member
Aug 7, 2006
2,432
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Maybe this is the wrong question to ask ... but why can't groups that want to live independently do what the Hutterites do? The government doesn't seem to be causing them to smuggle and fraud.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
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Nakusp, BC
Do you think there is a brand that isn't corruptible? Especially when there are billions of dollars involved.
If you find one could we apply it to all levels of government?
I think the brand of greed and corruption we have is socially conditioned. It is a serious problem because there is no quick fix. Stuff would have to be unlearned and a new set of values instilled. Difficult but not impossible if there is a will. Governance by consensus could work but not with the present mind set of our selfish, mindless consumer society. It might take a few generations to get back to the council of elders type of governance but so far nothing else comes close to its efficiency.
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,338
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Das Kapital
Just a aside here; there is a study(s) that show a strong 'correlation' between suicide rates and self-governance. Corruption was not addressed, just how much control they had over their affairs versus suicide rates - less control higher suicide rates. I only know of one legitimate, 'peer reviewed' indepth study, btw.
 

The Old Medic

Council Member
May 16, 2010
1,330
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The World
Weaselwords, your assumed name fits you very well. In most cases, the people that signed treaties were NOT the leaders chosen by the Indians, but were "leaders" chosen by the white man for their willingness to give away everything for a few coins.

The British Government, and the succeeding Canadian government were very able to find the Judas's among the natives that would sell out. They used them, got their signatures (or marks in many cases) and then almost immediately abrogated the treaty that had just been signed.

Name a single treaty that the government has ever honored completely?

The governments duplicity begins with the Jay Treaty (the one that ended the American Revolution). This treaty, and the one that ended the War of 1812, specifically spelled out the rights of Indians to move back and forth across the borders of Canada and the USA, to move their chattles, to seek employment, etc. without hinderance.

Canada refuses to honor those clauses. The USA still does. And Canadian Indian that is half blood or more, can move to the USA with all of their possessions, can get a Social Security Card and work, without ever going through INS or any other agency.

If an Indian attempts to do the same thing in Canada, they are subject to arrest, deportation and possibly even confinement. Any goods that they bring with them are either taxed horribly, or confiscated. The Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that the clauses of those treaties have no legal meaning what so ever.

(By the reasoning of the Supreme Court, a State of War still exists between the USA and Canada by the way.)
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
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Ontario
Cool, when were you on the Grand? I've never actually had a residence there, but I've spent a lot of time there.
 

Stretch

House Member
Feb 16, 2003
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Australia
Cool, when were you on the Grand? I've never actually had a residence there, but I've spent a lot of time there.


3 t 5 yrs ago I worked there....nice people, most I found to be genuine, it had its ratbags but show me a people that dont..........
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
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Ontario
3 t 5 yrs ago I worked there....nice people, most I found to be genuine, it had its ratbags but show me a people that dont..........
Dude, yer preaching to the choir! I'm glad we made an impact that had some positives bru.
 

Stretch

House Member
Feb 16, 2003
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Australia
when you drive past GRE, take a look at the stone pillars out the front and the stone work on the front of the building....if you have time, go inside and look at the stonework and fireplace behind the reception desk...... Stretch did that ;-)
 
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CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
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Ontario
when you drive past GRE, take a look at the stone pillars out the front and the stone work on the front of the building....if you have time, go inside and look at the stonework and fireplace behing the reception desk...... Stretch did that ;-)
No sh!t!!!???

I will bud, you can count on that.

Are you still in Ontario?

Did you ever get to meet Pete or his son Jerry? Two of the nicest guys you could ever meet. Ken on the other hand, well, even I find him to be a bit of a scum bag.
 

Stretch

House Member
Feb 16, 2003
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I knew Dave Smith and dave smith jnr and Scott who was/is one of the partners in GRE......and heaps of other people down there that I'm much the better for knowing them.... lots of fun
Nah mate, back in Aus tryin' t' get the message out here again..... :protest: you know me
Stewie Ense and I did those pillars out the front now, theres a nice guy
 
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CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
I knew Dave Smith and dave smith jnr and Scott who was/is one of the partners in GRE......and heaps of other people down there that I'm much the better for knowing them.... lots of fun
Scot and Shirley I know, because I've written for the Tekawennake. But I've never met Dave or Jr.


Nah mate, back in Aus tryin' t' get the message out here again..... :protest:
To bad, ya we disagree a lot, but you seem like a fun guy.
 

Stretch

House Member
Feb 16, 2003
3,924
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Australia
Scot and Shirley I know, because I've written for the Tekawennake. But I've never met Dave or Jr.


To bad, ya we disagree a lot, but you seem like a fun guy.

I'm the nicest person I've met....... :lol:

its a pleasure to meet you "off the field" mate ;-)