Our cooling world

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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460
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How has it been shown?... Your word and personal assurances aren't good enough.

Because some parts of some cities may be hotter than their surroundings, concerns have been raised that the effects of urban sprawl might be misinterpreted as an increase in global temperature. While the "heat island" warming is an important local effect, there is no evidence that it biases trends in historical temperature record. For example, urban and rural trends are very similar.[9]

The Third Assessment Report from the IPCC says:
However, over the Northern Hemisphere land areas where urban heat islands are most apparent, both the trends of lower-tropospheric temperature and surface air temperature show no significant differences. In fact, the lower-tropospheric temperatures warm at a slightly greater rate over North America (about 0.28°C/decade using satellite data) than do the surface temperatures (0.27°C/decade), although again the difference is not statistically significant.[9]

Ground temperature measurements, like most weather observations, are logged by location. Their siting predates the massive sprawl, roadbuilding programs, and high- and medium-rise expansions which contribute to the UHI. More importantly, station logs allow sites in question to be filtered easily from data sets. Doing so, the presence of heat islands is visible, but overall trends change in magnitude, not direction. The effects of the urban heat island may be overstated. One study stated, "Contrary to generally accepted wisdom, no statistically significant impact of urbanization could be found in annual temperatures." This was done by using satellite-based night-light detection of urban areas, and more thorough homogenisation of the time series (with corrections, for example, for the tendency of surrounding rural stations to be slightly higher in elevation, and thus cooler, than urban areas). If its conclusion is accepted, then it is necessary to "unravel the mystery of how a global temperature time series created partly from urban in situ stations could show no contamination from urban warming." The main conclusion is that microscale and local-scale impacts dominate the mesoscale impact of the urban heat island. Many sections of towns may be warmer than rural sites, but surface weather observations are likely to be made in park "cool islands."[34]

Not all cities show a warming relative to their rural surroundings. After trends were adjusted in urban weather stations around the world to match rural stations in their regions, in an effort to homogenise the temperature record, in 42 percent of cases, cities were getting cooler relative to their surroundings rather than warmer. One reason is that urban areas are heterogeneous, and weather stations are often sited in "cool islands" – parks, for example – within urban areas.[35]

Studies in 2004 and 2006 attempted to test the urban heat island theory, by comparing temperature readings taken on calm nights with those taken on windy nights.[36][37] If the urban heat island theory is correct then instruments should have recorded a bigger temperature rise for calm nights than for windy ones, because wind blows excess heat away from cities and away from the measuring instruments. There was no difference between the calm and windy nights, and one study said that we show that, globally, temperatures over land have risen as much on windy nights as on calm nights, indicating that the observed overall warming is not a consequence of urban development.[36][38]

A view often held by skeptics of global warming is that much of the temperature increase seen in land based thermometers could be due to an increase in urbanization and the siting of measurement stations in urban areas.[39] For example, Ross McKitrick and Patrick J. Michaels conducted a statistical study of surface-temperature data regressed against socioeconomic indicators, and concluded that about half of the observed warming trend (for 1979–2002) could be accounted for by the residual UHI effects in the corrected temperature data set they studied—which had already been processed to remove the (modeled) UHI contribution.[40][41] Critics of this paper, including Gavin A. Schmidt,[42] have said the results can be explained away as an artifact of spatial autocorrelation.
Climate Change 2007, the Fourth Assessment Report from the IPCC states the following.
Studies that have looked at hemispheric and global scales conclude that any urban-related trend is an order of magnitude smaller than decadal and longer time-scale trends evident in the series (e.g., Jones et al., 1990; Peterson et al., 1999). This result could partly be attributed to the omission from the gridded data set of a small number of sites (<1%) with clear urban-related warming trends. In a worldwide set of about 270 stations, Parker (2004, 2006) noted that warming trends in night minimum temperatures over the period 1950 to 2000 were not enhanced on calm nights, which would be the time most likely to be affected by urban warming. Thus, the global land warming trend discussed is very unlikely to be influenced significantly by increasing urbanisation (Parker, 2006). ... Accordingly, this assessment adds the same level of urban warming uncertainty as in the TAR: 0.006°C per decade since 1900 for land, and 0.002°C per decade since 1900 for blended land with ocean, as ocean UHI is zero.[43]
Urban heat island - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


It's definitive. And if you'd like to argue the source, don't bother as I am not going to get into a useless conspiracy debate.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
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My "clue" isn't founded on trendy, emotionally charged supposition... So, yes, I do think I do.




Unlike others, I do not claim to have that data. However, I do understand the sheer importance of the info and have a solid foundation in statistical methodology and modeling.

You'd like backup/proof?... Why Walter posted some very interesting info on UHI's recently, although that is not an example of access to raw data, it is an excellent example of how manipulation and irresponsible interpretation can deeply affect the results/conclusions.
Exactly. It also indicates that claims about fudging can go both ways.

What does this have to do with Tonnington, I am not exchanging with Tonnington am I Anna?
You're the one that was snivelling about name-calling, Mr. Pot. You were whining that Tonington called you a name and then you turn around and do the exact same thing. If you can't understand hypocrisy, you're not as smart as you think you are.

You want to toss out sarcastic commentary, then you'd better be prepared to receive it back in kind.
*shrugs* Suit yourself. It seems to bother you more than me.

Either way, so far most what you've been able to provide as support for your claims is erroneous or just plain fallacious. I think I've seen you make only a handful (if that) of valid points and those points have to do with the mishandling of efforts in carbon reduction. You've proven exactly dick about the planet cooling or that we haven't contributed to warming or even how much.
I gave a list of stuff that each person could do to reduce their carbon output and you mumbled something about not being able to do it. You mumbled that without showing ANY support for your claim. But, I accepted you at your word and tossed in the idea of trapping whatever carbon we couldn't reduce. You ignored that comment (i made it a few times) and rambled on about this unachievable goal of 80%. You tend to ignore anything that refutes your points. So babble on, Peewee. You're a laugh sometimes.

Got any NEW charts with CURRENT data?
July isn't over yet.

Then dig up the data for Detroit and settle that angle once and for all. Nearly 2 million people leaving ought to have a massive impact on Detroit's UHI.
If Detroit doesn't pan out try New Orleans

Here is you chance
2 million people leaving what? Is that 2 million in metric count?
Populations of Detroit since 1900: Detroit Population History 1900-2000

Currently there are about 950,000 in Detroit. It never got to 2 million let alone see 2 million leave.

UHI: Does Urban Heat Island effect exaggerate global warming trends?
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
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Got any NEW charts with CURRENT data?

June isn't current enough?

OK, and to address your concerns about urban heat Islands, we'll use satellite data instead of thermometer based measurements.

Here's a screenshot:




So, 2010 still warmest in satellite records too. Someone needs to tell that damn ocean (70% of the surface that satellite is covering) to stop being so damned urban, it's contaminating our global satellite coverage! (make note of heavy sarcasm...)
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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I'm thinking more along the lines of placing sensitive measurement technology in a location surrounded by asphalt, having HVAC ventilation exhaust direct onto the measurement device and in a location where multiple airliners take off/land within a hundred feet of the device.

... Any thoughts as to how that might affect the temp measurements?...
It's obvious. But considering the fact that temp measurements are also taken from areas other than urban areas, there are no urban areas sitting on the oceans (about 73% of the surface), not all land is covered by urban areas, and humans only occupy between 1 and 2 % of the surface and not all are in urban areas, readings due to UHI are negligible and can be accounted for anyway. But then you knew all this because I posted it before.

It all depends on what someone WANTS them to read. HVAC? I'm never seen a meteorological station on the roof of an airport. I usually see them out in the middle of the airfield. That aside a UHI Vs. rural data and that collected by Weather Underground users should be stark in comparison although that is all beside the point.

If you want something real to chew on look into the interaction of pole movement on the 18.6 year nutation cycle which is already known to have a big impact on the earth core, mantle, tides and weather patterns.
What happened to all that heat during the 70 years of difference between your shift and the global average temperature rising?
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
Guess this ends whether Global Warming is BS or not. Seems El Nino causes more problems than just flooding and hurricanes.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The world is enduring the hottest year on record, according to a U.S. national weather analysis, causing droughts worldwide and a concern for [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]U.S. [COLOR=#366388 !important]farmers[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] counting on another bumper year.
For the first six months of the year, 2010 has been warmer than the first half of 1998, the previous record holder, by 0.03 degree Fahrenheit, said Jay Lawrimore, chief of climate analysis at the federal [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]National [COLOR=#366388 !important]Climatic [/COLOR][COLOR=#366388 !important]Data [/COLOR][COLOR=#366388 !important]Center[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR].
Period of a El Nino weather pattern is being blamed for the hot temperatures globally.
"We had an El Nino episode in the early part of the year that's now faded but that has contributed to the warmth not only in equatorial Pacific but also contributed to anomalously warm global temperatures as well," Lawrimore said.
World simmers in hottest year so far - Yahoo! News

 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
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Sigh....

2010 has been warmer than 1998, but 1998 had the larger ENSO index.


Also, 1998 had more solar influence as well. We're in a deep solar minimum, and it's still warmer than 1998.

Sunspot number:


Total Solar Irradience:


You're running out of causality...
 
Last edited:

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
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Probably the same thing that happened the last time we went through the cycle. There's always a chance we could get hit with a blast from the sun.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
146
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A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Because some parts of some cities may be hotter than their surroundings, concerns have been raised that the effects of urban sprawl might be misinterpreted as an increase in global temperature. While the "heat island" warming is an important local effect, there is no evidence that it biases trends in historical temperature record. For example, urban and rural trends are very similar.[9]

The Third Assessment Report from the IPCC says:
However, over the Northern Hemisphere land areas where urban heat islands are most apparent, both the trends of lower-tropospheric temperature and surface air temperature show no significant differences. In fact, the lower-tropospheric temperatures warm at a slightly greater rate over North America (about 0.28°C/decade using satellite data) than do the surface temperatures (0.27°C/decade), although again the difference is not statistically significant.[9]

Ground temperature measurements, like most weather observations, are logged by location. Their siting predates the massive sprawl, roadbuilding programs, and high- and medium-rise expansions which contribute to the UHI. More importantly, station logs allow sites in question to be filtered easily from data sets. Doing so, the presence of heat islands is visible, but overall trends change in magnitude, not direction. The effects of the urban heat island may be overstated. One study stated, "Contrary to generally accepted wisdom, no statistically significant impact of urbanization could be found in annual temperatures." This was done by using satellite-based night-light detection of urban areas, and more thorough homogenisation of the time series (with corrections, for example, for the tendency of surrounding rural stations to be slightly higher in elevation, and thus cooler, than urban areas). If its conclusion is accepted, then it is necessary to "unravel the mystery of how a global temperature time series created partly from urban in situ stations could show no contamination from urban warming." The main conclusion is that microscale and local-scale impacts dominate the mesoscale impact of the urban heat island. Many sections of towns may be warmer than rural sites, but surface weather observations are likely to be made in park "cool islands."[34]

Not all cities show a warming relative to their rural surroundings. After trends were adjusted in urban weather stations around the world to match rural stations in their regions, in an effort to homogenise the temperature record, in 42 percent of cases, cities were getting cooler relative to their surroundings rather than warmer. One reason is that urban areas are heterogeneous, and weather stations are often sited in "cool islands" – parks, for example – within urban areas.[35]

Studies in 2004 and 2006 attempted to test the urban heat island theory, by comparing temperature readings taken on calm nights with those taken on windy nights.[36][37] If the urban heat island theory is correct then instruments should have recorded a bigger temperature rise for calm nights than for windy ones, because wind blows excess heat away from cities and away from the measuring instruments. There was no difference between the calm and windy nights, and one study said that we show that, globally, temperatures over land have risen as much on windy nights as on calm nights, indicating that the observed overall warming is not a consequence of urban development.[36][38]

A view often held by skeptics of global warming is that much of the temperature increase seen in land based thermometers could be due to an increase in urbanization and the siting of measurement stations in urban areas.[39] For example, Ross McKitrick and Patrick J. Michaels conducted a statistical study of surface-temperature data regressed against socioeconomic indicators, and concluded that about half of the observed warming trend (for 1979–2002) could be accounted for by the residual UHI effects in the corrected temperature data set they studied—which had already been processed to remove the (modeled) UHI contribution.[40][41] Critics of this paper, including Gavin A. Schmidt,[42] have said the results can be explained away as an artifact of spatial autocorrelation.
Climate Change 2007, the Fourth Assessment Report from the IPCC states the following.
Studies that have looked at hemispheric and global scales conclude that any urban-related trend is an order of magnitude smaller than decadal and longer time-scale trends evident in the series (e.g., Jones et al., 1990; Peterson et al., 1999). This result could partly be attributed to the omission from the gridded data set of a small number of sites (<1%) with clear urban-related warming trends. In a worldwide set of about 270 stations, Parker (2004, 2006) noted that warming trends in night minimum temperatures over the period 1950 to 2000 were not enhanced on calm nights, which would be the time most likely to be affected by urban warming. Thus, the global land warming trend discussed is very unlikely to be influenced significantly by increasing urbanisation (Parker, 2006). ... Accordingly, this assessment adds the same level of urban warming uncertainty as in the TAR: 0.006°C per decade since 1900 for land, and 0.002°C per decade since 1900 for blended land with ocean, as ocean UHI is zero.[43]
Urban heat island - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


It's definitive. And if you'd like to argue the source, don't bother as I am not going to get into a useless conspiracy debate.


The solution sounds very clear then... Placement of all data stations should either be exclusively located in urban areas, miles away from any developments.

That would represent a simple and cost effective solution, right?... Kinda makes you wonder why this situation exists at all?

You're the one that was snivelling about name-calling, Mr. Pot. You were whining that Tonington called you a name and then you turn around and do the exact same thing. If you can't understand hypocrisy, you're not as smart as you think you are.

Spare me OK... Time to get over it.


Either way, so far most what you've been able to provide as support for your claims is erroneous or just plain fallacious. I think I've seen you make only a handful (if that) of valid points and those points have to do with the mishandling of efforts in carbon reduction. You've proven exactly dick about the planet cooling or that we haven't contributed to warming or even how much. I gave a list of stuff that each person could do to reduce their carbon output and you mumbled something about not being able to do it. You mumbled that without showing ANY support for your claim. But, I accepted you at your word and tossed in the idea of trapping whatever carbon we couldn't reduce. You ignored that comment (i made it a few times) and rambled on about this unachievable goal of 80%. You tend to ignore anything that refutes your points. So babble on, Peewee. You're a laugh sometimes.


There's a fundamental difference between our respective logic processes; there are those that are capable of independent thought and critical analysis while there are those that simply follow the trends and reluctantly (if ever) challenge convention. Posting links to which you don't or refuse to understand the dynamic content is proof that you can surf the net, that's about it.

I'll say this for Tonnington, while I do not support his position in any way shape or form, he is one that exemplifies independent thought
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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My reference to HVAC was a mistake... According to the info Walter (I think) posted, it was some form of exhaust.

I'm with you on the polar migration issue. I do not have the same depth of knowledge as you, but from what I've read, it is a significant component.

What do ya think is going to happen when the solar storms start again?

There are two main theories that attempt to explain recent changes in climate: the first states that changes in atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) are the main driver, and the second claims that varying solar activity, amplified by corresponding changes in cloud cover, are most important. The first is promoted heavily by politicians and activists, based on computer modelling; as for the second, the most interesting work is quietly being pursued at CERN, the European Centre for Nuclear Research.

The solar amplification theory depends on the seeding of clouds by galactic cosmic rays (GCR), the numbers of which are in turn controlled partially by the strength of solar activity. When that activity is low, the solar magnetic field strength and solar wind are low, allowing more GCRs into the Earth's atmosphere, thereby creating more clouds, which reflect solar energy back into space. Low solar activity means slightly lower energy from the Sun, and less of this gets through to the Earth's surface - the cooling effect is thereby amplified. The reverse is the case when activity is high.

The challenge is to identify and describe the mechanism that allows GCRs to create more clouds. A first step in this direction was taken with the successful SKY experiment by Henrik Svensmark in Copenhagen, and then expanded three years ago with the CLOUD experiment at CERN - a collaboration between scientists from 19 institutes in ten countries.

The intention is to use particle beams from the accelerators to simulate cosmic rays entering the lower atmosphere under various conditions - all carefully controlled and monitored. Initial results have proved encouraging, and so the experiment is being ramped up, and the new specifications are labelled CLOUD09.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Sounds like the research is still (relatively) in its infancy.

Are there any preliminary suggestions as to the general conclusions (is it beginning to lean one way or the other)?
A work in progress. They wouldn't be funded by CERN if there wasn't solid merit.

I'm looking forward to hearing the latest from THE INTERNATIONAL AEROSOL CONFERENCE, IAC2010, HELSINKI, 29 AUGUST – 3 SEPTEMBER 2010

(IAC 2010) International Aerosol Conference 2010, Helsinki, Finland


I wonder if blowing $50 on sapling will offset my cosmic ray and aerosol contributions?
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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I'm not attempting to get you to do "my homework" for me, but I'd appreciate if you posted links to any advances as they occur.
No problem at all. I hope Mr. Peabody reads them this time before flying off the handle and going into another CO2 and ocean acidity rant.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
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A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
I look to seeing this info. Although the details of the science are way above my pay-grade, I can develop a (very) basic, low level understanding.

Thanks by the way for providing a thumb nail sketch, it sure speeds up the process for me.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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I look to seeing this info. Although the details of the science are way above my pay-grade, I can develop a (very) basic, low level understanding.

Thanks by the way for providing a thumb nail sketch, it sure speeds up the process for me.

If you have the time Kirby goes through his entire theory on a video lecture.. I'll find the link. I posted it awhile back.

If you have the time Kirby goes through his entire theory on a video lecture.. I'll find the link. I posted it awhile back.
CERN Document Server: Record#1181073: Cosmic rays and climate
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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The GCR hypothesis is still not convincing, for a number of reasons.

The first is, there is no statistically significant trend in GCR, yet there is in the global average surface temperature. That means that there is a clear signal in the temperature data, clear enough to be differentiated from noise, and for GCR there is no clear signal. Any trend you could deduce cannot be differentiated from what could be just noise.

So that's a huge problem.

The next problem is the mechanism. Svensmark thinks that the GCR climate link is due to GCR causing low level clouds, which retain heat. So that could be possible, cloudy nights are warmer than clear nights. Nobody contests that. But how does the GCR cause clouds to form? The hypothesis of Svensmark's is actually that during Forbush decreases (FD) -events characterized by a 10% or greater decrease in the cosmic ray intensity, a result of a coronal mass ejection- leads to a reduction in atmospheric ionization, and thus the clouds will hold less water as fewer droplets are coalescing. The problem is that they found the clouds reach a minimum liquid water content 7 days after these FD events. But, clouds don't typically even last for a week. The life of a single cloud is measure din hours, not days. There is no explanation for how the conditions created by the FD events last for days, when the clouds themselves do not last that long. A second problem, is that the variations in GCR actually occur after the variations in temperature. And lastly, Svensmark is not the only one who investigated this issue. This paper did the same, but included more FD events, and included a larger window of wavelengths for the aerosols which form clouds (Svensmark doesn't explain why he constrains the window, aerosols of all shapes and constituents undergo ionization). That investigation found no effect on clouds from GCR.

Of all the physics which are uncertain in climate science, it is clouds and aerosols which are the most uncertain, yet only few studies, such as Svensmark show connections between GCR, clouds and climate, while the majority of cloud physicists are finding that GCR play little to no role at all.

In the face of known physics, with known mechanisms, it becomes increasingly likely that cloud-climate effects are actually feedbacks of already occuring global warming. More to the point, to usurp the enhanced greenhouse theory, there will be a required proof that the greenhouse warming is being mitigated somehow. The radiative effects are already measured for greenhouse gases, and there is not much room left in the radiative imbalance.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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In the face of known physics, with known mechanisms, it becomes increasingly likely that cloud-climate effects are actually feedbacks of already occuring global warming. More to the point, to usurp the enhanced greenhouse theory, there will be a required proof that the greenhouse warming is being mitigated somehow. The radiative effects are already measured for greenhouse gases, and there is not much room left in the radiative imbalance.


Some guys at NASA think otherwise.

During the last 400 years there seems to exist a close linkage between sunspot activity and paleoclimate. The combined Schwabe Gleisberg cycles provide a good approximation of past climate. Changes in the phase of the sunspot cycles exhibit a very close correlation with observed changes in climate for the last 150 years. The heliomagnetic aa-index provides a close correlation with climate over the last 150 years. The close correlation between sunspot activity and atmospheric changes in radiocarbon indicates that changes in heliomagnetic interaction with the Earth’s magnetosphere play a central role in this solar-terrestrial interaction; via its modulation of the cosmic ray flux or its modulation of Earth’s rate of rotation. Variations in cosmic ray flux have the capacity of affecting Earth’s climate via its modulation of airglow and cloudiness (especially at the level around 15 km). There is a good correlation between Solar Wind intensity and Earth’s rate of rotation (LOD), implying that variations in Solar Wind intensity (sunspot activity) act in retarding and speeding up in the spin rate of Planet Earth. During the Spörer, Maunder and Dalton Sunspot Minima, the Earth’s rate of rotation was significantly speeded-up, affecting the ocean surface circulation and the atmospheric circulation as to create significant changes in local climate; “Little Ice Ages” in western and northern Europe and “Little Interglacial” in southwest Europe and northwest Africa. In conclusion, Earth’s climate seems closely driven by changes in sunspot activity. This correlation may operate via the cosmic ray effects on airglow and/or cloudiness, or via the heliomagnetic (Solar Wind) effects on Earth’s rate of rotation, or a combination of these processes. Changes in the Earth’s own internal geomagnetic field seem to have played little or no role during this time period. Nor are there any reasons to advocate major changes in Solar irradiance.