It's time to re-think marriage!

[taxslave]

Having ben around the block a time or two I know for a fact that if a couple do not have simular sex drives one or the other will leave or look elsewhere. There are other factors involved of course but this is the most important. Next would be money.

 

[Cliffy]

Having ben around the block a time or two I know for a fact that if a couple do not have simular sex drives one or the other will leave or look elsewhere. There are other factors involved of course but this is the most important. Next would be money.

I've left a few and been left by a few. The reasons are as many as the relationships I've had. Sex drive differences do cause a wandering eye but there are many others. Mostly I think that monogamy is not natural and things have changed so dramatically over the past 50 years: birth control, woman's lib, women in the work force, money pressures, common law relationships, welfare.... take your pick.

 

[talloola]

We live in a disposable society - diapers, paper plates, Styrofoam cups, cars, jobs.... you name it. How do we expect our relationships to be different. Talloola and VanIsle are from a generation where marriage was a commitment. Today it is about how much loot teh couple can accumulate at the party. In the old days, people expected to work hard for everything, including their relationships. Today, if it doesn't turn on immediately, we become impatient and chuck it. It's all about me, me, and me. Like I have said before, every time I here someone announce their marriage I know somewhere there is a lawyer having a wet dream.

The sad thing for me as a mother and grandmother is---when my daughters talk about weddings, and my
grandaughters talk about a wedding someday or their friend's weddings, I feel 'nothing', as I see the
writing on the wall in todays marriages, and all that planning and weddings are just that, silly girly
planning for dresses and flowers and cakes, and I look on from the background and don't have positive
thoughts for any of that, it just seems like they are wishing for something that will never be.

That is sad, very sad for me. I have become desensitized and have no good thoughts for them as married
people.

I guess couples have to plan a life together and children, and not expect it to be a lifetime experience,
and be happy with that plan.

 

[Bar Sinister]

It appears to me from the comments in this thread that members of society have already decided to rethink marriage. It is being used to show that couples are interested in staying together for as long as it takes them to become bored with one another. Why so much money is spent on the wedding ceremony is beyond me.

 

[Cliffy]

It appears to me from the comments in this thread that members of society have already decided to rethink marriage. It is being used to show that couples are interested in staying together for as long as it takes them to become bored with one another. Why so much money is spent on the wedding ceremony is beyond me.

We could blame commercial holidays like Valentines Day, Disney and romantic fantasies, Hollywood and tabloids, but this era seems to run on fantasy, which could be why marriage fails. As a friend once said, expectation breeds disappointment. We have been fed a line about happily ever afters and bought it hook, line and sinker. Life just isn't going to live up to that.

 

[VanIsle]

We live in a disposable society - diapers, paper plates, Styrofoam cups, cars, jobs.... you name it. How do we expect our relationships to be different. Talloola and VanIsle are from a generation where marriage was a commitment. Today it is about how much loot teh couple can accumulate at the party. In the old days, people expected to work hard for everything, including their relationships. Today, if it doesn't turn on immediately, we become impatient and chuck it. It's all about me, me, and me. Like I have said before, every time I here someone announce their marriage I know somewhere there is a lawyer having a wet dream.

Excuse me there Mr. Cliffy the Biffy man - just what generation are you from???;-)

 

[talloola]

We could blame commercial holidays like Valentines Day, Disney and romantic fantasies, Hollywood and tabloids, but this era seems to run on fantasy, which could be why marriage fails. As a friend once said, expectation breeds disappointment. We have been fed a line about happily ever afters and bought it hook, line and sinker. Life just isn't going to live up to that.

I thought the 'live happily ever after' was back in my time, but in this present day, I think people have
their eyes much more wide open, have seen so many failed marriages and miserable ones that still exist that
they have become gun shy and I see many young people who aren't going anywhere near the alter, but rather
just short relationships, some living together for awhile, but that BIG decision to think about spending your
life with someone else just isn't making anyone feel comfortable, so they dance around the idea, but most
don't want anything to do with it, and after people live with each other so much, break up, then live with someone else, and
have sex with everyone they date, they certainly aren't preparing themselves for a
lifetime plan with anyone, but rather with a continuation of the same.

I don't know what the statistics are at present of 'how' many kids actually live with both their parents,
maybe someone can come up with the answer to that one.

When I was a little girl, I felt like an outsider because my parents were divorced, and I can't remember
any of my friends that were like that, but I do remember a couple of miserable families, with drunk dads,
and one with a drunk mom and dad, but they were still together.

My oldest daughter doesn't have any children, but the other three all have children from their first
marriages, and one daughter has had two marriages and a child from each one, so on it goes, and those
split families are so common now that none of the kids feel any discomfort from it around their friends
because their friends are probably in the same boat.

And I must add, my daughters short marriages are not because their parents didn't set
a good example, or had a bad marriage, as they have told us many times, that they
wish they could find someone to have a life with that would be like the one their
mom and dad have, but they just couldn't early on, but now seem to be with people
that they are happy with.
yep, life has certainly changed in the marriage department.

 

[Cliffy]

Excuse me there Mr. Cliffy the Biffy man - just what generation are you from???;-)

The Hippy generation - Free Love! Ya know - Sex, Drugs and Rock & Roll! Listening to Pink Floyd right now. Jimmy Hendrix and Led Zepplin earlier. Guess I never grew up! ;-)

I thought the 'live happily ever after' was back in my time, but in this present day, I think people have
their eyes much more wide open, have seen so many failed marriages and miserable ones that still exist that
they have become gun shy and I see many young people who aren't going anywhere near the alter, but rather
just short relationships, some living together for awhile, but that BIG decision to think about spending your
life with someone else just isn't making anyone feel comfortable, so they dance around the idea, but most
don't want anything to do with it, and after people live with each other so much, break up, then live with someone else, and
have sex with everyone they date, they certainly aren't preparing themselves for a
lifetime plan with anyone, but rather with a continuation of the same.

I don't know what the statistics are at present of 'how' many kids actually live with both their parents,
maybe someone can come up with the answer to that one.

When I was a little girl, I felt like an outsider because my parents were divorced, and I can't remember
any of my friends that were like that, but I do remember a couple of miserable families, with drunk dads,
and one with a drunk mom and dad, but they were still together.

My oldest daughter doesn't have any children, but the other three all have children from their first
marriages, and one daughter has had two marriages and a child from each one, so on it goes, and those
split families are so common now that none of the kids feel any discomfort from it around their friends
because their friends are probably in the same boat.

And I must add, my daughters short marriages are not because their parents didn't set
a good example, or had a bad marriage, as they have told us many times, that they
wish they could find someone to have a life with that would be like the one their
mom and dad have, but they just can't.

yep, life has certainly changed in the marriage department.

Yup! A friend of mine commented the other day that you need a program to keep track of all the kids here and which dad fathered which and whose mother is living with whom. It gets very confusing sometimes because the kids end up living with several families every week just so all the parents get a chance to spend time with all their kids. Most of my friends are in the 30s and 40s and working on their 4th or 5th relationship. Hell, some have had more than me at half my age. And I have trouble keeping track of my own. Luckily there was only one child born of all my mishaps.

 

[talloola]

The Hippy generation - Free Love! Ya know - Sex, Drugs and Rock & Roll! Listening to Pink Floyd right now. Jimmy Hendrix and Led Zepplin earlier. Guess I never grew up! ;-)


Yup! A friend of mine commented the other day that you need a program to keep track of all the kids here and which dad fathered which and whose mother is living with whom. It gets very confusing sometimes because the kids end up living with several families every week just so all the parents get a chance to spend time with all their kids. Most of my friends are in the 30s and 40s and working on their 4th or 5th relationship. Hell, some have had more than me at half my age. And I have trouble keeping track of my own. Luckily there was only one child born of all my mishaps.

so theres the answer to the reason why the 'no marriage' syndrom is alive and well, all of these kids came
down the pike as kids from broken homes, and that is the norm now, and will continue. I'm not judging this,
it is what it is, it speaks for itself, and I don't really know what to think of it. I would like to say
it is a bad thing, but what is the point of doing that, life goes on, and doesn't usually go back to the way
'it use' to be, but what is the future for 'marriages', it seems that there is none.

It makes me wonder what I would do if I were about 20 years old right now, would I be the same person I was
in l958, looking forward to a life together with my husband, or?

It certainly makes it much more difficult for genealogists of the future trying to trace their past.

 

[Cliffy]

so theres the answer to the reason why the 'no marriage' syndrom is alive and well, all of these kids came
down the pike as kids from broken homes, and that is the norm now, and will continue. I'm not judging this,
it is what it is, it speaks for itself, and I don't really know what to think of it. I would like to say
it is a bad thing, but what is the point of doing that, life goes on, and doesn't usually go back to the way
'it use' to be, but what is the future for 'marriages', it seems that there is none.

It makes me wonder what I would do if I were about 20 years old right now, would I be the same person I was
in l958, looking forward to a life together with my husband, or?

It certainly makes it much more difficult for genealogists of the future trying to trace their past.

Yes, they will have to use DNA to trace their lineage. But I take solace in a belief that this is just a phase as we go through a period of flux on our way to a higher consciousness. The world is changing and we are changing but the change is rapid, far more rapid than any other growth spurt humanity has ever gone through before, as well as a greater magnitude. This change may be accompanied by changes in the Earth that could cause some suffering but a correction is necessary because of how badly we have treated her. We are interconnected with all life on this planet and any changes she goes through will have a profound effect on all life forms, including us. The demise of marriage as an institution is a minor consequence of this time of change.

 

[talloola]

Yes, they will have to use DNA to trace their lineage. But I take solace in a belief that this is just a phase as we go through a period of flux on our way to a higher consciousness. The world is changing and we are changing but the change is rapid, far more rapid than any other growth spurt humanity has ever gone through before, as well as a greater magnitude. This change may be accompanied by changes in the Earth that could cause some suffering but a correction is necessary because of how badly we have treated her. We are interconnected with all life on this planet and any changes she goes through will have a profound effect on all life forms, including us. The demise of marriage as an institution is a minor consequence of this time of change.

Yes, as much as we whine and complain about humans mistreating the earth and hurting the earth, ultimately
it is us we are hurting, as the earth will adjust spit us out wherever she decides, and heal, and move on with
or without us.
I wonder, after we go through the period of 'no marriage', short relationships, living together, children
from different unions, 'what' will be next.
We had such a detailed and strict way of recording ourselves through birth, marriage and death, but those
three big events in our lives are becoming cloudy in the way of true statistics, but maybe down the road,
when many cannot find out where they started in life, and from whom, a new and more complex method will be
thought up to keep track.
Perhaps some chip in our bodies at birth with all info needed, and all that is needed is a scan.

 

[ironsides]

The Hippy generation - Free Love! Ya know - Sex, Drugs and Rock & Roll! Listening to Pink Floyd right now. Jimmy Hendrix and Led Zepplin earlier. Guess I never grew up! ;-)


Yup! A friend of mine commented the other day that you need a program to keep track of all the kids here and which dad fathered which and whose mother is living with whom. It gets very confusing sometimes because the kids end up living with several families every week just so all the parents get a chance to spend time with all their kids. Most of my friends are in the 30s and 40s and working on their 4th or 5th relationship. Hell, some have had more than me at half my age. And I have trouble keeping track of my own. Luckily there was only one child born of all my mishaps.

And just when did that disposable society start, I put the blame with the Woodstock generation and as you mentioned the so called hippie's and it has been downhill ever since. To some and a very few today, marriage is a commitment, and most of the time it will require a little effort. Life is not fair, never was and never held any guarantees.

 

[AnnaG]

Why do some people continue to live in abusive relationships? Why do some people get off sexually only when physically hurt? Why do some women say nothing when their husbands are sexually abusing their kids? Human psychology is very weird and we have just begun to scratch the surface of understanding it.

You say we have only scratched the surface of psychology but you vehemently assert that monogamy is unnatural in human behavior? Odd.

Why do people like Les and I manage to be happy together after decades? My Dad and Mum have been married even longer and sometimes they act like a pair of teens discovering love for the first time.

Monogamy came along with the bible and the dictates of the catholic church.

For some people.

They could have nun so you can only have one. Man was never and is not a monogamous species.

As I said, science says that 20 % of humans are hardwired to be monogamous.

And don't try to tell me that your dick don't twitch every time you see a nice rack.

Irrelevant. Anyone can enjoy the beauty of a woman.

Most men are monogamous because the fear the wrath of Wife (and the alimony payments). Others are just sneaky. Some are successful and many are not. In the end, it is all in the hands of women (unless you're a rapist) because like the t-shirt said: "I have the pussy, so I make the rules"

Pretty much. :evil3: (bwaaaahahahahahhaha Sign here, please)

 

[Cliffy]

You say we have only scratched the surface of psychology but you vehemently assert that monogamy is unnatural in human behavior? Odd.

Why do people like Les and I manage to be happy together after decades?

For some people.As I said, science says that 20 % of humans are hardwired to be monogamous. Irrelevant. Anyone can enjoy the beauty of a woman. Pretty much. :evil3: (bwaaaahahahahahhaha Sign here, please)

Always exceptions to rules. Most of the time, nuclear families are dysfunctional too. Some manage to raise balanced kids but looking at how society in general is doing, I would have to say they are the exception too. If we were in balance, would we be doing such damage to our life support system?

 

[AnnaG]

Well, whatever. You people think what you like. I posted a scientific link that says about 20% of humans are genetically geared to be monogamous. Ignore it if you like, but that is a large percentage of humanity.
I know that in my life anything I value highly is something I worked at. If I don't put much effort into something it's because it isn't worth much. So if you work at it, it will give you rewards.
Personally, the happiest people in my life are those that are hooked up. The unhappiest are alone.

 

[talloola]

And just when did that disposable society start, I put the blame with the Woodstock generation and as you mentioned the so called hippie's and it has been downhill ever since. To some and a very few today, marriage is a commitment, and most of the time it will require a little effort. Life is not fair, never was and never held any guarantees.

I would never respect that hippie/woodstock generation so much to give them credit for changing anything
in society, that was a fad, a bad fad, and at that time I was a very young mother, part of the majority
who would have nothing to do with such behavior, filthiness, and open sex on fields or wherever, in
public.

As they say, most of them can't remember the 60s, well I remember every moment of it, and the thought
of being included in a conversation concerning the percentage of my generation who were completely wacked
out on LSD and other lude behavior, laziness, begging etc., turns my stomach.

I sure hope none of them were had any influence on how life went on after that, it is a time to forget
and block out any memory of them.

The pendelum for a few swung too far, then came back to the rest of us, who were very balanced, happy and
didn't feel the need to be exhibitionists or sl*ts, and that goes for both sexes.

 

[ansutherland]

Well, whatever. You people think what you like. I posted a scientific link that says about 20% of humans are genetically geared to be monogamous. Ignore it if you like, but that is a large percentage of humanity.
I know that in my life anything I value highly is something I worked at. If I don't put much effort into something it's because it isn't worth much. So if you work at it, it will give you rewards.
Personally, the happiest people in my life are those that are hooked up. The unhappiest are alone.

Through the use of social and religious institutions we have an expectation that 100% of people will live as 20% would like? That is what it seems to me from what you are saying. I don't have a problem with the 20%, and I don't think anyone here has stated that 100% were not monogamous......but you have to concede that 20% is a relatively small minority.

 

[taxslave]

..but you have to concede that 20% is a relatively small minority.

That's a huge majority when one of them is your significant other.

 

[L Gilbert]

Through the use of social and religious institutions we have an expectation that 100% of people will live as 20% would like? That is what it seems to me from what you are saying.

That's the expectation I think she was suggesting, yes.

I don't have a problem with the 20%, and I don't think anyone here has stated that 100% were not monogamous......

Cliffy did.

but you have to concede that 20% is a relatively small minority.

Let's see, I don't think 1.34 billion people is a particularly small number.
We should eliminate all marriages because "only" 20% of humanity is monogamous? Funny. Or that only 20% of humanity should be married? Just as funny. Who's going to choose which people are monogamous from the rest?

If people were upfront like my wife was with me, they could arrange a marriage to be whatever they like it to be, assuming both partners are agreeable.

 

[Cliffy]

Les, I didn't mean that 100% were not monogamous. Sure some are, but the vast majority are not. It would appear that for the majority, monogamy is unnatural. I never said ban marriage, just that for most people it doesn't work. I am in aw of people who can make it work, who actually thrive in marriage, but the vast majority of the marriages I have had contact with, including myself, can't seem to make it work or are miserable in their marriages (after a while).