Is the US losing the Afghanistan war?

[UShadItComing]

Are they losing the war? So thinks 'The Economist' and Rolling Stone reporter in the know.

The US won't lose the war if it kills enough people. That means there will be a so-called surge and many, many Afghani civilians will die. The cost of resisting the occupation they hate will become too much to bear any longer. The US will not give way because Afghanistan is a strategic position in the ME that they need. This differs not a bit from the Russian occupation.

This is a war for the exact same reason as the Iraq war. The claims of helping the people or fighting terrorism or the latest, preventing a ground for terrorism are hollow claims and complete fabrications and lies.

The US will not leave either Afghanistan or Iraq and huge US bases are being built and have been built in both countries for a permanent occupation. The US doesn't even really deny this fact.

But as we have witnessed in Iraq, the few citizens who resist will fight on and kill the military occupiers of their country. As they will in Afghanistan and as they proved they were capable of doing against the Russians. The occupation's military will never walk safely on the streets of either country because there will always be a few brave souls left who will try to kill them or drive them from their country. Brave souls who fight on at great personal risk to themselves.

Opinions?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/25/michael-hastings-rolling_n_625261.html

 

[Colpy]

Are they losing the war? So thinks 'The Economist' and Rolling Stone reporter in the know.

The US won't lose the war if it kills enough people. That means there will be a so-called surge and many, many Afghani civilians will die. The cost of resisting the occupation they hate will become too much to bear any longer. The US will not give way because Afghanistan is a strategic position in the ME that they need. This differs not a bit from the Russian occupation.

This is a war for the exact same reason as the Iraq war. The claims of helping the people or fighting terrorism or the latest, preventing a ground for terrorism are hollow claims and complete fabrications and lies.

The US will not leave either Afghanistan or Iraq and huge US bases are being built and have been built in both countries for a permanent occupation. The US doesn't even really deny this fact.

But as we have witnessed in Iraq, the few citizens who resist will fight on and kill the military occupiers of their country. As they will in Afghanistan and as they proved they were capable of doing against the Russians. The occupation's military will never walk safely on the streets of either country because there will always be a few brave souls left who will try to kill them or drive them from their country. Brave souls who fight on at great personal risk to themselves.

Opinions?

Michael Hastings, Rolling Stone's McChrystal Profiler, Says Troops Are Happy That General Was Ousted

First of all, the Taliban kills A LOT more civilians than the NATO forces.

Secondly, Afghanistan is simply NOT of strategic importance to the USA, other than to prevent it once again becoming a base for terrorists..

Thirdly, the purpose of the Russian occupation was to de-populate Afghanistan......roughly one quarter of the population fled the country.......many of those refugees have recently RETURNED.......which kinda puts the lie to equating Russian and American objectives now, doesn't it?

Fourthly, rarely now are Iraqis killing American troops, they are too busy murdering the opposite Muslim sect.........

Those are not opinions, they are facts.

I'll leave it to the reader to draw his own conclusions.

 

[UShadItComing]

First of all, the Taliban kills A LOT more civilians than the NATO forces.

Secondly, Afghanistan is simply NOT of strategic importance to the USA, other than to prevent it once again becoming a base for terrorists..

Thirdly, the purpose of the Russian occupation was to de-populate Afghanistan......roughly one quarter of the population fled the country.......many of those refugees have recently RETURNED.......which kinda puts the lie to equating Russian and American objectives now, doesn't it?

Fourthly, rarely now are Iraqis killing American troops, they are too busy murdering the opposite Muslim sect.........

Those are not opinions, they are facts.

I'll leave it to the reader to draw his own conclusions.

Yes, I know that you have accepted all the US propaganda and are acting as a for-free propagandist on their behalf. And no doubt the US propaganda is a powerful weapon to fight against but sooner or later the US credibility comes into question simply because it's not credibly and impossible to believe anymore.

Perhaps some readers here have not been so propagandized that they can't begin to question the Afghanistan war. The Iraq war, the US credibility was destroyed when it was discovered that their pretense for war was proven to be false. There were no WMD's and only extremists continue to claim there were. Therefore you, and those of your same ilk now contend that the war had to be for some other reason. Saddam, who you contend fancifully murdered his own people now has to be reason enough for the US to go to war with Iraq and murder murder Iraqis under their bombs as well as destroying the country again. A credibility gap one thinks?

And now in Afghanistan, where the US is uncertain if any Al Queda remains, it fights on against both Taliban and the war lords who fight the Taliban because it can't discern one from the other. Fighting against the Taliban and war lord equally who are fighting to rid their country of the occupiers and maintain their right to freedom. All as if they had anything to do with the so-called threat from terrorism against the US.

Given a choice, there's little doubt that Karzai's government would align itself with the Taliban now. The US would find itself in the position of fighting against a puppet government that it originally established and supported. How can this be reconciled by you pro-war enthusiasts any longer? Most of the war lords and the Taliban couldn't find the US on a map and couldnt care less. Pakistan is where Al Queda lives but Pakistan is nuclear armed and that throws a monkey wrench into US plans for more aggression.

Too many americans are now abandoning the facade that justifies war and it's time for you to do likewise. Even though the occupation will not end it's time to at least understand that it should end. Not for the sake of the US troops who are being offed more and more every day but for the innocent people who don't even understand why they are dieing at the hands of the occupation.

Try to do more than just babbling over and over again your propaganda talking points.

 

[Colpy]

Yes, I know that you have accepted all the US propaganda and are acting as a for-free propagandist on their behalf. And no doubt the US propaganda is a powerful weapon to fight against but sooner or later the US credibility comes into question simply because it's not credibly and impossible to believe anymore.

Perhaps some readers here have not been so propagandized that they can't begin to question the Afghanistan war. The Iraq war, the US credibility was destroyed when it was discovered that their pretense for war was proven to be false. There were no WMD's and only extremists continue to claim there were. Therefore you, and those of your same ilk now contend that the war had to be for some other reason. Saddam, who you contend fancifully murdered his own people now has to be reason enough for the US to go to war with Iraq and murder murder Iraqis under their bombs as well as destroying the country again. A credibility gap one thinks?

And now in Afghanistan, where the US is uncertain if any Al Queda remains, it fights on against both Taliban and the war lords who fight the Taliban because it can't discern one from the other. Fighting against the Taliban and war lord equally who are fighting to rid their country of the occupiers and maintain their right to freedom. All as if they had anything to do with the so-called threat from terrorism against the US.

Given a choice, there's little doubt that Karzai's government would align itself with the Taliban now. The US would find itself in the position of fighting against a puppet government that it originally established and supported. How can this be reconciled by you pro-war enthusiasts any longer? Most of the war lords and the Taliban couldn't find the US on a map and couldnt care less. Pakistan is where Al Queda lives but Pakistan is nuclear armed and that throws a monkey wrench into US plans for more aggression.

Too many americans are now abandoning the facade that justifies war and it's time for you to do likewise. Even though the occupation will not end it's time to at least understand that it should end. Not for the sake of the US troops who are being offed more and more every day but for the innocent people who don't even understand why they are dieing at the hands of the occupation.

Try to do more than just babbling over and over again your propaganda talking points.

No, I am not a "victim" of US propaganda, neither am I a victim of the self-hatred you so obviously wallow in....

Don't put words in my mouth....the Second Gulf War was perpetrated on an excuse because Bush wanted to finish the first one. I supported it because I hated the tyranny of Hussein and his ambition to create a fascist pan-Arab state.......in retrospect, that may have been a mistake. Ask me in 20 or 30 years.
Hussein used chemical weapons on the Kurds, killing tens of thousands.....that's a fact, not a conjecture.

Admittedly, Karzai is turning out to be a disaster. But we don't give a crap who leads the country, when it comes down to it. We just don't want any more terror bases there.

I'm sure you can manage something both real and original yourself, but I have yet to see any evidence of it.

 

[AnnaG]

Oh great, another thread about A-stan like we don't already have dozens. :roll:

 

[earth_as_one]

I'll contribute.

BBC News - Afghans say US team found huge potential mineral wealth

Apparently we never knew before we invaded...

 

[UShadItComing]

I would sincerely doubt that the US is in Afghanistan for the mineral wealth. Why is it so hard to understand that the US is in the ME period because of empire building and asserting it's control over the ME? They're not there for next year's cabbage crop nor are they there for mineral deposits. If one followed the history of British empire building in the ME one would more quickly understand that the US is repeating the same thing. Does anyone actually think British empire building was for honest reasons or for defensive reasons? Of course not.

The simple fact of the matter is that the US has a track record of wars of aggression over the last 100+ years. None of these wars were for the sake of the invaded and occupied people and none were defensive wars. Although they used to make that claim when they had the war with Vietnam where they once again massacred millions upon millions.

People who defend the US wars have become a crude and sad joke and should be ashamed of themselves. Fortunately now some americans are coming to their senses. Too few too late to save milions more dead civilians.

 

[ironsides]

"None of these wars were for the sake of the invaded and occupied people and none were defensive wars" Now everything you quoted is of course your opinion. Now for a very important fact, never has the U.S. permanently occupied any of these countries.

 

[GreenFish66]

There is no winning in Afganistan ..Even if the U.S takes the whole country...There is only positioning for more Unnecessary wars...

Peace or Pieces?

Peace

 

[Colpy]

I would sincerely doubt that the US is in Afghanistan for the mineral wealth. Why is it so hard to understand that the US is in the ME period because of empire building and asserting it's control over the ME? They're not there for next year's cabbage crop nor are they there for mineral deposits. If one followed the history of British empire building in the ME one would more quickly understand that the US is repeating the same thing. Does anyone actually think British empire building was for honest reasons or for defensive reasons? Of course not.

The simple fact of the matter is that the US has a track record of wars of aggression over the last 100+ years. None of these wars were for the sake of the invaded and occupied people and none were defensive wars. Although they used to make that claim when they had the war with Vietnam where they once again massacred millions upon millions.

People who defend the US wars have become a crude and sad joke and should be ashamed of themselves. Fortunately now some americans are coming to their senses. Too few too late to save milions more dead civilians.

Ah, excuse me?

You seem to have missed some of the most basic facts of the history of the last century.

In the First World War, the USA was our ally.....but they stayed out until 1917. Hardly war-mongers.

No defensive wars? You have forgotten, perhaps, Pearl Harbour? How on earth do you figure that was not a defensive war? And, btw, Germany declared war on the United States in WWII as well. Oh, and you conveniently forget that the USA rebuilt Europe and Japan after the war at their own expense......without prejudice against their former enemies.

Korea was a defensive war, one mandated by the United Nations in defense of the South............if you want to judge the necessity of that war and the righteousness of our cause in that war, take 5 minutes and compare modern North and South Korea.

Vietnam was a colossal mistake..........Ho Chi Minh was a Nationalist and a friend of the USA, who had armed and trained his group to fight the Japanese.....but then the USA made the gigantic error of backing the return of colonial France....OOOPS!!!!

The First Gulf War was a necessity to prevent Saddam Hussein from taking territory and making the first moves towards the creation of a fascist pan-Arab state........he invaded Kuwait, a US ally, and threatened Saudi Arabia.....he had to be taken down.....and yes, it was defensive.

 

[petros]

The main Afghan goal has long since been met. They have secured exactly what they needed to secure. NATO will be there until what is really wanted is extracted and the rest is pure "icing" on the "cake".

 

[UShadItComing]

"None of these wars were for the sake of the invaded and occupied people and none were defensive wars" Now everything you quoted is of course your opinion. Now for a very important fact, never has the U.S. permanently occupied any of these countries.

I can think of several countries where the US is still occupying the country. But let's not lose sight of what we're talking about right now. The US has made it very plain that they have no intention of leaving either Iraq or Afghanistan. Funny isn't it, how people never stop to think of that. Permanent bases are built and being built in both countries.

But right now I'm going to concentrate more on drawing a parallel between Afghanistan and Iraq. Check out my new thread on Iraq and follow some of the truths if you so much as care.

I can do no more than attempt to expose the lies and the evil perped by the US. If someone doesn't want to subject themselves to the horrible truth then there's not much I can do about it.

As I've said, to not try would be less than human and perhaps as bad as being one of the murderers myself.

The main Afghan goal has long since been met. They have secured exactly what they needed to secure. NATO will be there until what is really wanted is extracted and the rest is pure "icing" on the "cake".

You may be right but I seriously doubt that NATO as such will remain to share in the spoils of war. I think that Britain will ask for a share of the spoils but I don't think Canada will do so openly at least. Once the people are defeated, if that ever happens completely, most nations will leave. The US of course will never leave until there is no further reason to assert it's control over ME oil resources.

Much evidence can easily be found to prove that the US is building permanent military installations in Afghanistan. As they already have in Iraq.

 

[Avro]

I'll respond to the thread title only, since what you write UShaditcoming is nothing more than hateful BS.

The US is not winning this war....nor will they.

Unless they do what needs to be done, invade southern and western Pakistan.

It was foolish to go in and it was more foolish the way they went in.

Didn't help either that they decided to invade Iraq on shakey evidence and without approval.

Sort of like what Iraq did to Kuwait.

 

[GreenFish66]

Look for "EVIL" UShaditComing -- you will find EVIL .. You will be surrounded by EVIL finally becoming EVIL...Better to keep with the cause/the effect/the re-action....It is better to Look for solutions than to cause more problems.....For Goodness sake..

Peace

 

[UShadItComing]

There is no winning in Afganistan ..Even if the U.S takes the whole country...There is only positioning for more Unnecessary wars...

Peace or Pieces?

Peace

I suspect that the same thing will happen in Afghanistan as happened in Iraq. The US formed a safe zone away from the Iraqi people where they could continue the permanent occupation in relative safety. Everyone knows that if US troops venture out of the safe zone they will be killed as quickly as possible by the Iraqi freedom fighters. Hence, they hide in their safe place and keep the casualty count down for the sake of observers at home in the US who protest the wars.

The American people are very accepting of wars as long as their own aren't dying in large numbers. People who live in foreign lands are of no interest to most americans.

Look for "EVIL" UShaditComing -- you will find EVIL .. You will be surrounded by EVIL finally becoming EVIL...Better to keep with the cause/the effect/the re-action....Look for solutions not cause more problems.....

I have looked for evil and I have found great evil, disguised as US defensive wars. To do less than my best to expose it would make me less than human.

 

[GreenFish66]

Ushaditcoming - Your hate and the Evil you speak of.. is within your name ..I will agree with one thing you say - U.s is no longer on the defensive... if it ever was at all...

Peace or Pieces?

Peace...

 

[petros]

Quoting petros The main Afghan goal has long since been met. They have secured exactly what they needed to secure. NATO will be there until what is really wanted is extracted and the rest is pure "icing" on the "cake".

You may be right but I seriously doubt that NATO as such will remain to share in the spoils of war. I think that Britain will ask for a share of the spoils but I don't think Canada will do so openly at least. Once the people are defeated, if that ever happens completely, most nations will leave. The US of course will never leave until there is no further reason to assert it's control over ME oil resources.

Much evidence can easily be found to prove that the US is building permanent military installations in Afghanistan. As they already have in Iraq.

Canadians have had heavy interest already in Central Asia especially Afghanistan long before 911 was ever concocted.

Cameco has been trying to get into there long before the pipeline was thought up. There are hefty urainium deposits in Helmand province and Pamir plateau as well as gold, copper zinc, nickle etc etc etc.

Not to mention the 3000+ glaciers to power the smelters.

Afghanistan was the last place on the planet to be properly surveyed by todays chemical and digital mapping capabilities.

We knew if we didn't get that Urainium China or Pakistan would have got it. We didn't need to worry about Russia with more urainium but we do with the locals.

 

[UShadItComing]

I'll respond to the thread title only, since what you write UShaditcoming is nothing more than hateful BS.

The US is not winning this war....nor will they.

Unless they do what needs to be done, invade southern and western Pakistan.

It was foolish to go in and it was more foolish the way they went in.

Didn't help either that they decided to invade Iraq on shakey evidence and without approval.

Iraq was given the greenlight by April Glaspie to invade Kuwait.

The US didn't actually win the war against Iraq but they accomplished what they set out to accomplish. Establishing permanent bases in Iraq which allows them to sit on Iraq's oil and prevent Iraq from privatising, thusly the US losing control over world oil markets. The are safe for now sitting in the green zone safe place where few americans will be killed by the Iraqi freedom fighters.

Sort of like what Iraq did to Kuwait.

Removing the attack on the Messenger, not the message.

Canadians have had heavy interest already in Central Asia especially Afghanistan long before 911 was ever concocted.

Cameco has been trying to get into there long before the pipeline was thought up. There are hefty urainium deposits in Helmand province and Pamir plateau as well as gold, copper zinc, nickle etc etc etc.

Not to mention the 3000+ glaciers to power the smelters.

Afghanistan was the last place on the planet to be properly surveyed by todays chemical and digital mapping capabilities.

We knew if we didn't get that Urainium China or Pakistan would have got it. We didn't need to worry about Russia with more urainium but we do with the locals.

You're trying to imply that Canada is in Afghanistan for the minerals?
You're trying to imply that Canada is in Afghanistan to prevent the locals from using the uranium?

Ushaditcoming - Your hate and the Evil you speak of.. is within your name ..I will agree with one thing you say - U.s is no longer on the defensive... if it ever was at all...

Peace or Pieces?

Peace...

I disagree with you that there is hate and evil in my name. Is it wrong to state the truth which is a truth known to most of the world. Is it wrong to state that the WTC 911 attacks were in revenge for the vicious and criminal deeds done by the US against Arab nations? Do you still suppose that the WTC fell because they hated our life style? Or were jealous of our t.v. sets?

Would it be wrong to say that WW2 Germany had it coming? Would you agree that they (Germany) had it coming?

Thank you for acknowledging that the US is not fighting defensive wars in the ME. That is a very plain fact to me and to many others in the world who are not victims of US propaganda.

 

[Avro]

Iraq was given the greenlight by April Glaspie to invade Kuwait young lady but I doubt you have the resources or the ambition to find out that is true. I don't waste my time on lost causes but if you prove you are capable I will have time for you.

I already new that, most people do.

The US didn't actually win the war against Iraq but they accomplished what they set out to accomplish. Establishing permanent bases in Iraq which allows them to sit on Iraq's oil and prevent Iraq from privatising, thusly the US losing control over world oil markets. The are safe for now sitting in the green zone safe place where few americans will be killed by the Iraqi freedom fighters.

See, you can skim the truth but you never actually get there because of your hate.

If you are trying to portray yourself with the avatar you post then you wouldn't be even born when the Gulf war started. Hence, you wouldn't have the faintest idea of what it was all about. Save for the propaganda you have snorted and licked up in your onesided quest to learn something worthwhile

.

See, more garbage from someone who can't do a tiny bit of research.

 

[petros]

Okay. You've had your chance.

You're trying to imply that Canada is in Afghanistan for the minerals?
You're trying to imply that Canada is in Afghanistan to prevent the locals from using the uranium?

I would suggest you stick to the simple stuff on the social threads here. Either that or just listen for a while.

Mineral deposits could contribute to Afghanistan’s economic recovery


05-08-03 Afghanistan might be one of the poorest countries in the world after 23 years of devastating war. However, its rugged terrain still houses probably some of the most precious wealth on Earth.

While the transitional government in Kabul cries for donor aid for the daunting post-war reconstruction, experts say that the abundant mineral resources throughout the country could contribute to the recovery of its war-torn economy if exploited properly. At an international donor conference on Afghanistan's reconstruction in Tokyo early last year, representatives reportedly derailed their discussions to talk about the fact that Russia was holding detailed information about mineral deposits in Afghanistan.

It was known that huge oil and gas reserves were discovered by Soviet specialists in north Afghanistan in the 1960s and even a pipeline was built to supply gas to the former Soviet Union. Surveys at that time showed that Afghanistan also had large deposits of ferrous and non-ferrous metals, including iron, copper and other strategically important rare ones, such as those widely used in air and space industry, officials said.

According to Nazar Mohammad Mangal, Deputy Minister of Mines and Industries, the Ainak copper mine, some 40 km southeast of the capital city Kabul, has the largest deposit in the Eurasian continent. The iron ore reserves at Hajigak in the central province of Bamyan are conservatively estimated at over 110 mm tons with extraordinarily high quality, said Mangal, a geological expert.


Some officials even said that Afghanistan has top-quality deposits of uranium in the southern province of Helmand and the Pamir plateau in the north, all discovered by the Russians in the 1960s. But they argued that the government has no plan to develop these deposits for the time being due to the sensitiveness of uranium, an essential material for nuclear weapons.

Still confused about why we are still there and will be there for a long long time?