What to do about global warming

[herald]

When Jesus comes back to the earth...there will be one more Pope, who is The Antichrist. St. Malachy's prophecy in 1139 said that there would be one more Pope. God can speak through anyone. "He said (Peter the Roman) will feed his flock amid many tribulations: after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful judge will judge the people."Scholars have depicted the Popes until the time of the end. And verified what he said. Jesus is coming back as the Judge of all men.

You must be born again to enter into the kingdom of God: Ezek 36:26,27;John 3:3-7.

 

[darkbeaver]

He will use an electric fire Herald, just like he always does. Very hot very fast very efficient scalable to whatever size cataclysm is required. God loves electricity cuz it burns sooooooo hot. Ask a resident of Soddom or Volsinium or countless other towns and villages etched out of existence between 800 and 600 BPE (BC) events that God contracted out to Jupiter and Mars.
crackle crackle zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz fire and brimstone made of the order

 

[King of the USA]

Many Stars to You (many lifetimes)
The Blackfoot Chief

...global warming can be a problem...the ever enlarging ozone-hole thing was a problem...of course & possibly "we" should do something about the global warming thing...?Yes and I do speak truthfully: "All in good time"...!

...you may not like what I have to say in the following account...however truth is sometimes stranger than fiction or friction...or possibly just very hard to receive…


PLEASE ENJOY!

The Holy Grail Brief of End Times Knowledge

…as related by
The Blackfoot Chief (Conrad M Cummings) 7th Estate Chieftain…

Dedicated
…to my two friends
The 7th Estate Controllers TNT
(pronounced: Te and Te’ a French Spelling)

Many Stars to You (many lifetimes)

…go to…
The Blackfoot Chief (Conrad M Cummings) MySpace.com (Blog) or Conrad Cummings Messenger Blog…
…for 6 to 8 hrs of more Chronicles and Notes like this one
and many other associated links on the World Wide Web…

…Beginning with a few things about our security perimeters and parameters…

PLEASE ENJOY!

Greetings “Children of Man”

Our security perimeter formally known as “The Great Smoothness” however it’s more commonly referred to as “the plastic”.

This plastic cellophane like sheath is stealth 26 to 28 ft above normal ground level wherever life and death exist in normal parameters. As it separates, people, times and places “day by day” allowing life, death and rebirth as we know it. It functions like a one way mirror “upward and onward” from its placement, creating the sky and universe in the reality of round world prospective.

Without the plastic only the ground within a misty twilight neutral zone would exist with only 8 to 10 ft of visibility in any one direction.

I walked the plastic as a child of six for more than an eternity, helping to repair rips and tares created primarily by creation vandals and also adding more space to the security shield of The Children of Man (the plastic). I was able to do so without reservation because the body doesn’t age upon the plastic.

However if you wish to “speak” it is necessary to take a wet breath so your vocal cords will function. Also you must not entertain bodily functions and physical desires. This requires some time to discipline because in this old world neutral zone the body is self sufficient.

…further meaning that you need nothing more than the knowledge of the task before you. And when you complete that task and wish to return to your place of origin “you lie down on the plastic and entertain your desire to sleep” and very soon you will return to the exact time and place of departure as though nothing ever happened. However I was gone for so long that when I returned I slept “off and on” for the most part of about two weeks.

The plastic is only accessible from the top side unless accessed from some point on the outer perimeter of the plastic. The plastic is more than steadfast to walk upon. The steadfast foundation of the thin cellophane like plastic automatically accompanies the plastic as it’s added on or repaired.

And just to mention that once on top of the plastic it would be quite easy for anyone to create a tare, enter any time, place, even another’s sanctuary or place of rebirth.

Also a rope may be secured to the plastic, ascending 20 0r 30 ft to the ground or the inside of a room if one desires to do so. This I did on a few occasions securing tools for the beginning repairs of the plastic. Also “in the beginning” I found an old military field jacket that was much too large for me and I wore it for the duration of the repair.

It’s possible to see what’s below the plastic if you place your eyes close to it and look down. And of course it’s easy to view what’s beneath through a rip or tare. And if someone was below I stayed away from the rip or tare until the person departed.

I was more than prodigy as a child and although I was only six years of age I understood the importance of the repair. My Mom and I were the only humans present for the repairs. Mom was more than in knowledge of how to access the plastic, and because she had found a tare on the underside. This made it possible to access it from the second floor of our Michigan farmhouse.

My Mom told me two weeks in advance that she had something to show me. She explained that she would wake me early in the morning. She said that “at first” it would be difficult to remain awake and that I must persevere until I overcame the desire.

Mom awakened me and we climbed through a dark rag-ally tare on the second floor ceiling of the old farmhouse. When we were on the plastic she explained what was before us and what needed to be done? She also asked me if I was interested in assisting her.

When Te and Tei’ (TNT “the two Estate cherubim”) appeared later upon the top of plastic with 2 X 3 ft “stacks of the plastic” I knew there was more to the repair than I was told. Decades afterwards I was able to confirm my suspicions.

The newly formed “stacks of plastic” were brought to increase the perimeter of the Estate. And it took a very, very long time to install the multitude of plastic sheaths in the accustomed seamless fashion.

When all repairs on our security sheath (the plastic) was completed, I went to sleep and awakened in my bed in the same place and time that I departed. Of course we knew of this option in advance. My Mom returned after completion of the first three quarters and I returned after completion of the 4th quarter (That was my decision).

We were assisted for a time by the two 7th Estate controllers “TNT”…pronounced Te & Tei’ (a French spelling).

The Tryne Spyder Estate was created without hands by a Casting (the art of the command of substance) and projected forward to “The Time of the Last Abyss”. The Tryne Spyder Estate, known as the “spider” is shaped like a multicolored scott diamond plaid 3 legged starfish formed in trine jewel cuts. It is visible from a normal distance within the abyss and appears only as a mirage and is less accessible. Entrance and exist is “of course” controlled only by Estate security.

There are 7 major marker named territorial estates of mankind. The 7th Estate is known as “The most enduring Estate of the 7”. Each of the 7 estates is noted for something in this way and they are all in confirmation of the biblical “7 Seals”.

However the elite of the 7th Estate (those primarily responsible for it’s creation) were the only ones in creation to heed the forever warnings of the last changing of the abyss.

In appearance the controllers of the 7th Estate look like two nude blue eyed children about 7 years of age. Their white bodies are flawless, with no hair and they are “neuter gender” or what’s termed “smooth around”. They have two short quarter crescent black satin horns just above where the ears should be. They also have small black satin hooves just below the ankle.

They were created without end, more than intelligent “like walking libraries”. Also they do not need to sleep, they dislike putting anything into their mouths and they prefer relating mentally.

They first appeared to me in this time (however I had previous contacts with them on another level) at mid-day near Brighton, Michigan, late 1940’s. They said: “We work for God” we take care of The Children of Man. They complimented me on “saving my world” they said. This I actually had done three days prior to their visit but I mentioned it to no one. There was a short verbal communication and then a more lengthy mental account of why they had come to see me.

They related that their place concerning the 7th Estate was on the verge of destruction. They ask me to help them alleviate the demise. It was a bit dangerous but I had no fear.
“there are some things that seem simple to us that they cannot do” (like one hand washing the other). And concerning this “together” we were instrumental in alleviating a dire problem with the Estate.

The 7th Estate Controllers TNT, The two cherubim that guard the fires of man, also called The Two White Buffalo by the indigenous are one and the same. They are the two most powerful creatures ever created and they were created without end.

The 7th Estate or “what is the 7th Seal” is not a part of the death and destruction prophecies related in the biblical book of Revelations. The physical reason for the problems and destruction related in Revelations is due to the last changing of the Abyss.

This last changing of the abyss began on or about the year 2000AD and will not complete itself until 2026 to possibly 2028AD. This affects mostly the estates of mankind as they will be transferred periodically by tributary until the last changing of the abyss completes itself.
Some relate to the duration of the last changing of the abyss as the 30 years tribulation and for some it will be a tribulation. However on better information the changing will end on 2026 to 2028 at the outer most branches of tributary. The “tributary effect” is what carries and completes the last changing of the abyss. This final changing is called “The Green Arrow of Creation”…meaning (something passing once).

Before the rips and tars were repaired, “TNT” (the two cherubim sometimes referred to as The Two White Buffalo by the indigenous) would bring “2 X 3 ft” rectangular stacks of the plastic. With this we added much real-estate to the times and places of mankind. Please remember that without the security covering above us we would have nothing and most would be put on a shelf for whatever duration that might be necessary.

Anyway the actually story of the repair from beginning to end is rather lengthy. Also I must proudly relate that the repair was a complete success.

I was hit and killed by a car at an intersection when I was 10 years of age in an intersection in the Compton, Inglewood area of LA, Southern California.

I was informed by the one in “clerical” that was attending me that my heritage had not been honored in this time. Also my Mom and Dad were doing nothing to defend or honor it. It was also related that “quote”: “They were thinking about discontinuing this time”. Anyway I was offered another life “changing places with another immortal” that had become bored with her existence.

I was only 10 years of age and I wasn’t ready to become a female but it was the only open position available during that time. I didn’t like the deal so I elected to continue as I was. And within a moment I was back on the street with a little more knowledge than before.

There have been other times and places of deaths, this was not an isolated incident.

Do not be confused by my relating (I am not contradicting the things that I relate) as time and place may vary from one individual to another. So please remember and understand that “time and place reconstructs” in the 7th Estate are more real than the originals. If this possibly places any light on those things not understood. Or as beginning information for those that might want to relive histories, other times and places…or for those on permanent vacation.

Qualifications for personal change are within the Quartermaster Area of the 3rd appendage of the Estate. If you know how to qualify yourself for change (chip appropriation) then you already know what to do. Otherwise spend a little time thinking about what you really want and give it some time to grow. Then you will be confronted at some point to confirm your wishes. Please remember that when most are confronted in confirmation of a change, most people “in the end” will choose to continue as they were.

The Estate incorporates all times, places and lifestyles. The 7th Estate was created to contain the entirety of mankind with room to spare as a helping hand to the remaining 6 estates. Because they did not heed the warnings of the coming last changing of the abyss. During the last changing of the abyss they were all placed inadvertently in mega great distances from one another in the newly completed Time of The Last Abyss. This is in relation to the remaining 6 Seals (or six estates) of the 7 as related in the biblical book of Revelations.

However “in the end” only a few of the lost inhabitants were saved. This was due to the mega-great physical distances of the newly formed “Last Time of The Abyss”. These distances being so great even psychic probes are corrupted. And needless to say “prophecies did come true”.

The 7th Estate Motto is: “May None Parish”…(death is not parishment)…”Parishment” is when replenishment factors become less than 50% on the decline. At that point they become “irreversible”…and death becomes like a dot on the horizon that can never be reached to end the demise.

…many problems were encountered when the Estate was first activated…making it impossible for much needed knowledge and entitlements to be given…because some of the elite could not be present for the original activation of the Estate. However some of these things have surfaced as fact from time to time…and so have I…

…This is the punch line…and is not meant to be disrespectful, cruel or bolting.

The preceding true information in this Chronicle has actually been written in “Pass Tense” for your knowledge and entertainment as “Time and Place Reconstructs” within the 7th Estate are more real than the originals.

If you have a desire to know more concerning the era “read my blogs”.
…It’s very simple…just go to…

SPAM Link Removed....& though I just read the above...whatever it is,
I have no idea what it's actually saying....????

!...it’s a serious matter…did you know that life is not free…it has a price…!

 

[Tonington]

Indeed it's a state, but does it meet the goal of "saving the planet"? According to most alarmists, merely stabilizing the ppm isn't enough.

And according to some the world is flat. In case you hadn't noticed what I did, I picked a common goal, not an extreme end of the tail. If you choose to define everything against extremes that's up to you. What to do about global warming is a political question, and I have yet to see, of all the legislation that has been passed, something which would appeal only to the extremists.

YOU don't take transit???8O I would hope that you at least ride a bike. Considering how deeply you believe in AGW I can't conceive of any circumstance that would have you driving!

There is no transit available to where I work. My fiance and I have one car, she's going to vet school at UPEI starting this Aug.30th. It's cheapest, and I might add the lowest footprint, if I car pool to work, and she uses transit to get around Charlottetown.

Just because I can show you measurements which make the anthropogenic cause most likely, does not mean I can make my place of work closer, or light rapid transit to spring from the ground...

Indeed. My point exactly.

So then you read the document on smart transportation policy?

The idea of wedges is to reduce emissions to the extent that CO2 ppm won't increase. This wedge cannot do that.

No single wedge can...if you think that's the goal you should go re-read Pacala and Socolow.

Sure, it would slow the rise, but that won't achieve the objective, only postpone the warming a little.

Sigh...if you add up many wedges that slow the rise, you get to a point where emissions are stabilized. The carbon going into the cycle is taken out by the natural mechanisms which to date are overwhelmed. What happens when you push down on the high side of a teeter-totter?

Let's see, they got Kyoto agreed to, they have governments all over the industrialized world implementing laws and policies that purport to tackle climate change

Let's move away from generalities and into specifics. If you're going to "shoot down" I want to see that you can actually hit a target. Which environmentalists? What laws and policies do we have in Canada that tackle climate change?

$800,000 per green job per year in Spain isn't massive? Admittedly that's the worst. Offhand, I believe the Norwegian cost is only $140,000 per job. Which still qualifies as massive to me. Maybe not to you, but them perhaps you're wealthy.

If it's $800,000 salary per job I would agree. If it is infrastructure being built, then using jobs as a metric doesn't really make sense. The goal isn't employment, that's an ancillary benefit. Or is it a green employment bill? It's hard to know what you're spinning about sometimes, a link would help.

As for corporations, they also recognize the power of the environmentalists and the need to cater to them. It could hurt the bottom line to ignore them, plus a lot of them are quite happy to get to belly up the the government trough.

Which ones in particular are happy to cozy up to the government trough, as opposed to those who would rather see some regulatory certainty so that they can get on with capital expenditures?

As I pointed out above, they ALL support action on AGW, and you know that.

I don't fault anyone for being rational.

That's not treating them as a monolithic group, it's just the way it is.

When you try to discard options by throwing out "environmentalists oppose" you are. Not all environmentalists oppose nuclear power. Try to name which ones do. Again, I'm asking you for specifics here.

I've pointed out why a number of them won't work. If you want to dismiss my analysis out of hand just because it's my analysis, well I can't help it if you willfully blind yourself to reality.

What analysis? You simply threw out generalizations. Which is why I have to ask you for specifics.

As for reality, in the real world, analysis has a very different meaning. Economics, sciences, analysis requires breaking things down into smaller parts. Your generalizations are not smaller parts

Interesting papers. I recall reading a report of much greater mortality from wind turbines. I'll see if I can find it.

That would be nice.

If you wanted to make a case for the cost of agriculture in the developed world, then one example wouldn't be absolutely representative, but it would certainly give a fair representation.

What gave you the impression that this discussion is limited to the developed world only?

When the price of gas jumped to $1.50 per litre a couple years ago people around here didn't drive any less. Sure, there was more demand for smaller cars, and some stories about people trading in their gas guzzler for a smaller car (in many cases spending upwards of $30,000 to save $2,000 a year on gas!:roll but it's something I've seen before. People get used to the higher costs and keep driving. People will pay (albeit grudgingly) to keep their convenience.

Well, your little town must be an anomaly.

Gasoline is not an inelastic good. Several meta-analyses have shown that demand does drop when prices go up, over the short-run, and even moreso for the long-run. Samples:
http://www2.cege.ucl.ac.uk/cts/tsu/papers/transprev243.pdf
Explaining the variation in elasticity estimates of gasoline demand in the United States: a meta-analysis. | Energy & Utilities > Oil & Gas Industry from AllBusiness.com
http://zonecours.hec.ca/documents/H2008-1-1529402.gasolinedemand.pdf

Every other small business has to compete with the big guys. So yeah, fair price is the market price.

Do I need to shout in caps, IF YOU CAN GET THAT PRICE.

It's an example of a result of the typical AGW attitude in action.

No, it's a result of typical pork spending on local projects that the American Congress loves so dearly.

Sometimes I wonder if your reality has the same colour sky.....

That's still not considered real analysis. If your next reply is more of the same, it will be as far as this conversation carries.

I've noticed in many instances you try to give me examples of things that have worked,

If they didn't work, they would be high apples on the tree.

or suggest things that would likely come to pass and would work, and they're always the Lomborg solution.

I've noticed that your interpretation of what Lomborg says and advocates for is far off the mark.

Under proposals like his, you don't waste time and effort and resources trying to pick the highest apples off the tree when you don't have a ladder that will get you that high, and you don't even know how to build it...yet.

Oh, whatever! You're way off the rockers now. He advocates for geo-engineering, untested, and potentially dangerous geo-engineering.

I hope on your next attempt, you link to actual analysis. If not, I'll be leaving you to your delusions.

 

[Avro]

Seriously, why do deniers always move the goal posts?

Also, why do they hold up professional contrarians like Lomborg in such high regard.

Sad, but fun to watch.;-)

 

[darkbeaver]

picture of Sleeping God ;-)

Aurora Borealis by Frederic Edwin Church (1865).
Smithsonian American Art Museum, Washington, United States of America.
​

Go Figure!
Jun 15, 2010

To eyewitnesses, including those at lower latitudes, highly energetic formations produced by extremely vigorous aurorae have often suggested some form of painting or supernatural inscription on the canvas of the sky. This was the case with observers of the prominent aurorae spawned by the coronal mass ejection of 1859. From Stockton, central California, came the report that the “great streams of red and blue” appearing after 9:00 PM on 28th. August “would faint and brighten in such a wonderful manner, that we imagined some painter in the skies drew his great brush from the horizon up to 40 or 50 degrees, dipped with vermillion, then with sky blue, and then with white and flesh color.” Even more graphically, and as far south as 13º 18´ North, an observer from La Unión, San Salvador, reflected as follows on the display that followed a few days afterwards:
“On the night of Sept. 2d, a most extraordinary phenomenon was witnessed. … a dense black cloud arose in the east, and commenced to spread over the colored portion of the heavens, presenting a most curious spectacle; for in the parts where the cloud was not dense enough, the red light shone through, and formed a thousand fantastic figures, as if painted with fire on a black ground.”
And certainly it must have been a similar sentiment that drove the talented Danish photographer and auroral expert, Sophus Tromholt (1851-1896), to wonder:
“Will man ever decipher the characters which the Aurora Borealis draws in fire on the dark sky? Will his eye ever penetrate the mysteries of Creation which are hidden behind this dazzling drapery of colour and light?”
Tromholt’s writings exude a striking sense of intellectual honesty regarding the boundaries of current understanding. By ‘decipherment’ of auroral “characters” in the sky Tromholt clearly meant a figuring out of the physics underlying the shapes and colours that presented themselves to the eye. With the passing of more than a century, this task has been largely accomplished by today’s plasma physicists. At the same time, Tromholt’s words convey the sense of numinous awe many have felt upon exposure to this celestial drama. Considering the marked emotional impact powerful aurorae tend to have on human minds, it would not be surprising if the appearance of discreet light structures in the sky had provoked similar associations with painting in people of prehistoric times. Seemingly charged with religious significance, these ‘cosmic fingerprints’, in which many strove to read omens for the future, could have prompted human spectators to record their observations for posterity.
What would have been more natural for them than to mimic the art of the ‘gods’ to the best of their ability – painting or carving the selfsame images on a darker background, perhaps leaving colours that were reminiscent of the auroral prototypes themselves? Arguably the most obvious type of enduring canvas ancient artists could resort to would be parietal – the surfaces of walls and rocks, which are found today to be filled with millions upon millions of paintings and carvings.
Indeed, in 1976, the American physicist, George Siscoe, figured that the earliest depictions of aurorae might be found in the ‘macaronis’ or serpentine meanders painted on rocks and cave walls: “The most dramatic example of this possibility is to be found on the ceiling of the cave of Rouffignac in France, where lines drawn in the red clay ceiling resemble the folded curtain patterns of the aurora.” Although it may seem puzzling that Cro-Magnon people would have preoccupied themselves with a natural phenomenon that rarely occurs at their latitude, conditions are bound to have been different in the past:
“We know that there have been more than 30 reversals of the earth’s magnetic field in the last 10 million years. Associated wandering of the magnetic poles would have resulted in periods when the aurora was seen much more frequently at mid-latitudes than is the case today. Consequently, it is not unreasonable to suppose that Stone Age man gazed with concern at flickering auroral lights and perhaps recorded them in his art.”
This view is endorsed by members of NASA’s THEMIS team, who concluded from this type of rock art that aurorae “have influenced the course of history, religion, and art” from prehistoric times. Other specialists on the polar lights have also speculated “that a great deal of the very ancient engravings which have been found in several grottos along the Mediterranean Sea are in fact pictorial representations of the northern light.”
Moving beyond speculation, a recent comparison with the observed behaviour of high-energy-density plasmas in laboratory, in space and according to particle-in-cell (PIC) simulations suggests that not only some of the French and Spanish cave paintings of the Cro-Magnon era may include auroral motifs, but also the worldwide impressions on rock, typically exposed to the open air, that proliferated from the end of the Palaeolithic and throughout the Neolithic period, roughly from 11,000 BCE to 3,000 BCE, though in many places continuing into later periods. Rupestral art as a whole appears as one monolithic witness to the possibility that awe-inspiring plasma filaments painted their characteristic nonfigurative images in the firmament first.
Contributed by Rens Van Der Sluijs


Go Figure!

 

[petros]

Damn them ancients and their paintings eh?

 

[darkbeaver]

What to do about global warming? A loaded question to be begin with, the mission implanted right up front, common cuisine these days. Firstly there is nothing to be done with respect to warming, cooling, shaking, splitting, arcing ,erupting, flooding off gasing or burning of the global kind. The fix is completely and unreachably out of human hands but you can hope pray and labour as if it were, all the while greasing the economic wheels right up until you are recycled. It'll make us all involved and seemingly empowered, hope of change right up till the liberation of blinding light. Oh what a friend we have in delusion. Warming is a small fraction of the physical change we are about to witness. This isn't the first recorded global catastrophy but it might be the last, for us, the planet will be just fine.

Damn them ancients and their paintings eh?

We very much have damned them and discounted them from the beginning of the modern scientific era. I'v got some pictures of some ash covered sinclines with folds I'll post later. My place in the bush has got some interesting oil shale features. I'm not much of a geologist and Coles rock book didn't help much.

 

[AnnaG]

Jesus, when He comes will burn up the world, and the heavens: talk about global warming!!!!!

We are not going to save this planet: Jesus is coming to burn the whole world up and burn up the heavens also.

When Jesus comes back to the earth...there will be one more Pope, who is The Antichrist. St. Malachy's prophecy in 1139 said that there would be one more Pope. God can speak through anyone. "He said (Peter the Roman) will feed his flock amid many tribulations: after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful judge will judge the people."Scholars have depicted the Popes until the time of the end. And verified what he said. Jesus is coming back as the Judge of all men.

You must be born again to enter into the kingdom of God: Ezek 36:26,27;John 3:3-7.

Hey Harry, keep your superstitious dogma out of the science threads, k?

Indeed it's a state, but does it meet the goal of "saving the planet"? According to most alarmists, merely stabilizing the ppm isn't enough.

So quit listening to alarmists and pay attention to the rational and serious scientists.

YOU

don't take transit???8O I would hope that you at least ride a bike. Considering how deeply you believe in AGW I can't conceive of any circumstance that would have you driving!

You should really try to loosen up your rigidity. Everything is not either black or white.

The idea of wedges is to reduce emissions to the extent that CO2 ppm won't increase. This wedge cannot do that. Sure, it would slow the rise, but that won't achieve the objective, only postpone the warming a little.

So you say, but you have yet to prove that is not just opinion.
I supplied a partial list of stuff that people and industries could cut back on, and you poopooed the list, ignored that I didn't make a complete list, and also ignored my reply to your "pooing" concerning trapping a lot of CO² that we couldn't reduce.

Who isn't facing reality? :lol: Look in the mirror.

More accurately, you should have said, "who isn't facing YOUR reality?".

$800,000 per green job per year in Spain isn't massive? Admittedly that's the worst. Offhand, I believe the Norwegian cost is only $140,000 per job. Which still qualifies as massive to me. Maybe not to you, but them perhaps you're wealthy.

:roll: Top green job pay scale in the USA:

6 Top-Paying Green Jobs - PayScale Resources

Does everyone in green jobs do these sort of jobs? Or is it more likely that some get minimum wage and others in a variety of wages in between minimum wage and top wages?
Either way, nice sidetrack from the point (that oil gets heavily subsidized, which you can't refute), but the sidetrack didn't work.

I've pointed out why a number of them won't work. If you want to dismiss my analysis out of hand just because it's my analysis, well I can't help it if you willfully blind yourself to reality.

But it is ok when you dismiss others' posts out-of-hand? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Interesting papers. I recall reading a report of much greater mortality from wind turbines. I'll see if I can find it.

Please do. And perhaps an old report and a new report (or a few) so we can see if the local wildlife had adapted to the new machines.
Isn't that the point in the first place? That we do things that places a trauma on the indigenous life that is often too traumatic for them to recover? So you play down that we can do that, yet squawk like crazy when we do it in a good way that reduces the harm from the original way. :roll:

If you wanted to make a case for the cost of agriculture in the developed world, then one example wouldn't be absolutely representative, but it would certainly give a fair representation.

That would depend upon whether you were objective, comprehensive, and balanced in the first place.

When the price of gas jumped to $1.50 per litre a couple years ago people around here didn't drive any less. Sure, there was more demand for smaller cars, and some stories about people trading in their gas guzzler for a smaller car (in many cases spending upwards of $30,000 to save $2,000 a year on gas!:roll but it's something I've seen before. People get used to the higher costs and keep driving. People will pay (albeit grudgingly) to keep their convenience.

Strange place you live in. We started driving less when the prices of gasoline went up in the early 90s, as did most people around here.
The price of electricity kept rising around here so people switched to natgas and made cuts to consumption in other ways, as well.
The price of lumber was rising around here so people cut back on building,resorted to getting lumber directly from small mills, and backyard mills.
I suppose there are some people around here that are content to just pay more and more, but they're a minority.

 

[darkbeaver]

So quit listening to alarmists and pay attention to the rational and serious scientists.

So Annag, hows about giving us the names and links of your favourite scientists and tell us the science you most enjoy following. Warmists are the prevailing alarmists dear, you've done little else but ring the alarm.:lol:

 

[Tonington]

Yes, a favourite trick....label someone an alarmist because they've measured something. They say the same thing about oceanographers and marine biologists who've measured the decline in large fish, the decline of coral eco-systems, the decline of sea life now in general, and the rise of jellyfish and slime.

What's another stressor ehh beav? Let's pollute water with agricultural run-off, cause large blooms and dead zones to happen with increasing frequency and spatial effects, blow up reefs, use cyanide to capture fish for the aquarium trade, set long drift nets and bait long lines indiscriminately, continuously pound the sea floor with nets, acidify the ocean, and on top of that, let's warm it up a bit.

How alarmist of me, to relay information...

If it's alarming, perhaps it's because it should be alarming.

 

[AnnaG]

So Annag, hows about giving us the names and links of your favourite scientists and tell us the science you most enjoy following.

I've said so quite often actually, that my preferred science is Anthro. I don't really have a favorite anthropologist.

Warmists are the prevailing alarmists dear,

Really? There are no deniers alarming people that economies will collapse, man will revert to prehistoric states, etc.? Try another line of BS.

you've done little else but ring the alarm.:lol:

Wrong. I add good sense, facts, and the occasional opinion. Try another line of BS.

Yes, a favourite trick....label someone an alarmist because they've measured something. They say the same thing about oceanographers and marine biologists who've measured the decline in large fish, the decline of coral eco-systems, the decline of sea life now in general, and the rise of jellyfish and slime.

What's another stressor ehh beav? Let's pollute water with agricultural run-off, cause large blooms and dead zones to happen with increasing frequency and spatial effects, blow up reefs, use cyanide to capture fish for the aquarium trade, set long drift nets and bait long lines indiscriminately, continuously pound the sea floor with nets, acidify the ocean, and on top of that, let's warm it up a bit.

How alarmist of me, to relay information...

If it's alarming, perhaps it's because it should be alarming.

Yeah, I've pretty much been a bit alarmed about pollution since I was a teen in science classes and realised that life on this planet is exquisitely complex and we cannot affect one aspect without having an effect on others.
And a lot of the pollution seems to come in the form of noise from deniers.

 

[Avro]

All very nice. I've already posted some of the problems with wind power, noteably the subsidies. But even ignoring that, wind won't even come close to achieving an 80% reduction in emissions that the alarmists see as necessary. Got any more ideas?

All very nice?

What does that mean?

You could at least respond to the specifics of the comentary. You would if this was about solving problems and not shooting solutions down or moving the goal posts.

I never said wind would achieve the 80%, no one thing will.

Have a good one.:smile:

 

[Tonington]

I wonder if Extra could tell us what sort of subsidies these wind producers are getting? Can we afford to give producers a 1.5 cent per killowatt hour tax credit?

If my fictional company builds wind turbines, the government makes money off us, but the amount the tax man collects is a little less than it would have been because I get a tax credit, can we afford that as a nation?

Now if Extra did some actual analysis this picture would be crystal clear. Instead we have to take his word that these subsidies are massive, and we can't afford them (he still neglects the total price of fossil subsidies which dwarf renewables, and introduces metrics like $ per employee, which says nothing about what we can and cannot afford...)

Don't hold your breath Avro.

 

[Avro]

I wonder if Extra could tell us what sort of subsidies these wind producers are getting? Can we afford to give producers a 1.5 cent per killowatt hour tax credit?

If my fictional company builds wind turbines, the government makes money off us, but the amount the tax man collects is a little less than it would have been because I get a tax credit, can we afford that as a nation?

Now if Extra did some actual analysis this picture would be crystal clear. Instead we have to take his word that these subsidies are massive, and we can't afford them (he still neglects the total price of fossil subsidies which dwarf renewables, and introduces metrics like $ per employee, which says nothing about what we can and cannot afford...)

Don't hold your breath Avro.

I just assumed he already explained that.

 

[darkbeaver]

Tonington;1290895]Yes, a favourite trick....label someone an alarmist because they've measured something. They say the same thing about oceanographers and marine biologists who've measured the decline in large fish, the decline of coral eco-systems, the decline of sea life now in general, and the rise of jellyfish and slime.

What's another stressor ehh beav? Let's pollute water with agricultural run-off, cause large blooms and dead zones to happen with increasing frequency and spatial effects, blow up reefs, use cyanide to capture fish for the aquarium trade, set long drift nets and bait long lines indiscriminately, continuously pound the sea floor with nets, acidify the ocean, and on top of that, let's warm it up a bit.

How alarmist of me, to relay information...

If it's alarming, perhaps it's because it should be alarming.

Your claim of accurate measurements is not supported by evidence. No one wants to have the garden kept pristine more than I do. I sense that you share that common cause, the only decernable difference between you and I on this subject is your insistence that the system (the very same one that pollutes and over consumes) will provide the cure. Forgive me but I find that naive, at least. It simply is not going to happen that way.

 

[Tonington]

Not supported by evidence? What planet are you on? Which evidence would you like to see? Are we talking about the declining health of the world ocean?

Can you even name one instance where I say a system will provide a cure? I don't think you've been paying attention to the things I say. It's not me being naive, it's you being ignorant about what I have said.

 

[ironsides]

If you'd read just a little farther you would have seen the following:

Feel free to suggest any method by which governments, corporations, organizations and individuals can achieve that goal.

referring to the previously mentioned goal of reducing emissions by 80%

Now if I remember right, CO2 reflects the Sun's energy back into space, so if we cut CO2 emissions and reduce the amount of CO2 we could hasten global warming because the Sun is radiating more heat as it grows older. CO2 is not the culprit it is the other gas's associated with burning fossil fuels that are helping cause global warming. Clean up the emissions by 80% as was suggested would go a long way to reduce the effects that fossil fuels have upon global warming.

 

[Tonington]

You're not remembering right. Carbon dioxide does not reflect or even interact with the incoming solar radiation. It's the solar energy that is reflected from Earth's surfaces, and radiated back by warmed surfaces which interacts with carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases. It's because the wavelength of these returning energies (photons) causes greenhouse gases to resonate. The bonds between the atoms vibrate, rotate, and bend, and this excites the molecule to a higher energy state.

If you understand what quantized means, the molecules prefer to be in a lower energy state, and so they will go to a lower energy state by releasing the photons which they absorbed. Some of that will be emitted down towards earth, and so the parcel of atmosphere below will warm.


A new post that will get merged.

So, how about that analysis that Extra performed on business interests pursuing climate action only to cozy up to the government teet?

Well a private equity fund, Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co. L.P.(KKR), has partnered with Environmental Defense Fund to develop the Green Portfolio Program.

The program identified and developed analytical tools (that's real analysis) to deliver improved business and environmental performance in 5 key environmental parameters: greenhouse gases, water, waste, forest products, and priority chemicals.

The program delivered $160 million in operating cost savings, a reduction of 345,000 metric tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions, a reduction of 1.2 million tonnes of waste, and saved 8500 tonnes of paper use.

The individual companies and their savings are summed up in this table:

Real analysis. Real savings. And no government teets involved at all.

 

[darkbeaver]

Greenhouse Gas does not exist. A perfect example of systemic rubbish flogged as environmental responsibility. Real analysis done on supporting speculative science can not yield factual results.
http://geoplasma.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!C00F2616F39D0B2B!1148.entryMay 29

As I said previously, there is no such thing as a greenhouse gas, let along a greenhouse gas effect

NASA covered up for forty years proof that the greenhouse gas theory was bogus. But even worse, did the U.S. space agency fudge its numbers on Earth’s energy budget to cover up the facts?
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As per my article this week, forty years ago the space agency, NASA, proved there was no such thing as a greenhouse gas effect because the ‘blackbody’ numbers supporting the theory didn’t add up in a 3-dimensional universe:
"During lunar day, the lunar regolith absorbs the radiation from the sun and transports it inward and is stored in a layer approximately 50cm thick....in contrast with a precipitous drop in temperature if it was a simple black body, the regolith then proceeds to transport the stored heat back onto the surface, thus warming it up significantly over the black body approximation..."

Thus, the ‘blackbody approximations' were proven to be as useful as a chocolate space helmet; the guesswork of using the Stefan-Boltzmann equations underpinning the man-made global warming theory was long ago debunked. If NASA had made known that Stefan-Boltzmann's numbers were an irrelevant red-herring then the taxpayers of the world would have been spared the $50 billion wasted on global warming research; because it would have removed the only credible scientific basis to support the theory that human emissions of carbon dioxide changed Earth’s climate. Source
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