In other words, Muslims had zilch to do with the 911 attacks, and in some respects have been its greatest victims owing to the anti-Muslim backlash it had caused.
Mosque near Ground Zero
- Thread starter YukonJack
- Start date
Which congregations are you talking about? I'll wager that there were Catholics, Unitarians, Atheists, Agnostics and maybe some Wickans. Hell, why limit it to religious groups? There were Democrats, Republicans, Anarchists and possibly even some that applauded the terrorist actions.
Shouldn't all be able to erect their own memorial on-site to commemorate the event in the way that they see fit?
Bingo! You hit the nail right on the head here. No one wold ever dream of saying that they should not build a church, a synagogue, or even a KFC there, so why should anyone be offended at an Islamic centre?
lol from this:
"People opposed to the mosque are simply requesting that the Muslim community consider building it somewhere else. That's all, plain and simple."
You arrive at this:
lol
Consider yourself corrected.
"People opposed to the mosque are simply requesting that the Muslim community consider building it somewhere else. That's all, plain and simple."
You arrive at this:
lol
Consider yourself corrected.
It's a free country. If they want to purchase the property they can do just that. Kinda sorta exactly like this group did.
"People opposed to the mosque are simply requesting that the Muslim community consider building it somewhere else. That's all, plain and simple."
And what do you think of that statement? Do you think they ought to build it elsewhere, or do you think they have the same right as any other New Yorker to build it wherever the law permits?
If you were a Muslim who'd lost a relative in 911 and a member of that congregation, how would you have reacted to that statement do you think? Would you have complied with that request or feel rather offended by it instead?
And what do you think of that statement? Do you think they ought to build it elsewhere, or do you think they have the same right as any other New Yorker to build it wherever the law permits?
If you were a Muslim who'd lost a relative in 911 and a member of that congregation, how would you have reacted to that statement do you think? Would you have complied with that request or feel rather offended by it instead?
Why?
Why should they?
Are all Muslims terrorists?
If that is so then all Catholics support the rape of young boys.
Did no Muslims die in those towers other than the hijackers?
Who made the call to police regarding the car bomb a few months back?
Was it a Christian....a Jew....a Hindu?
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Also, the Islamic Community Centre they're planning to build is along the lines of the YMCA, with the mosque on only one of the 13 floors, and the building would be open to all. Considering how much Ground Zero has been developed since 911, I think the local community might actually appreciate such a centre as a place to meet and have fun, just like a YMCA. Nice gesture, no? At least someone's trying to develop the area.
Avro, we can also ask: Where the highjackers acting in accordance to Islamic laws when they committed these acts? The resounding answer is no. So in fact their acts had zilch to do with Islam, but rather a corrupted notion of what they thought Islam was.
That is not an "or" contruct. Both are correct. What better way to "outreach" to the non-muslim community than respond to their concerns and build bridges by building a 15 story mosque a few blocks away. They have every right to build a mosque there, but they don't HAVE to build a mosque there. Imagine the mending that could take place by having that dialog.
One can be offended and still comply. That's what give and take is all about.
DZ: "But why male models?"
DD: "Are you serious. I just, I just told you that a moment ago."
Skipping ahead in the script, the next telling dialogue I've excerpted is from the conversation between Zoolander, a Time magazine reporter (Stiller's wife in real life), and an outcast male model/conspiracy nut played by David Duchovny from The X Files. The scene takes place in a graveyard where the bodies of male models are buried after they've accomplished their missions as brainwashed assassins.
DD: "Let's take a walk. What you've stumbled upon goes way deeper than you could ever fathom. The fashion industry has been behind every major political assassination over the last two hundred years -- and behind every hit a card carrying male model."
Time reporter: "That's impossible.
DD: "Oh yeah? Listen and learn sweetness. Abe Lincoln wanted to abolish slavery - right? But who do you think made the powdered wigs and coloured leg stockings worn by our country's early leaders?"
Derek Zoolander: "Mugatu?"
DD: "Slaves, Derek. Without their free labour the prices on such items would have gone up tenfold. So the powers-that-be hired John Wilkes Booth, the original model-slash-actor to do Mr Lincoln in. I'll go on."
"Dallas Texas, 1963. Kennedy had just put a trade embargo on Cuba, essentially halting the shipment of Cuban manufactured songs about slacks - an incredibly popular item at the time."
Time: "Lee Harvey Oswald was NOT a male model."
DD: "You're god-damned RIGHT he wasn't. But those two lookers who capped Kennedy from the Grassy Knoll sure as **** were."
Time: "Well what about you?. How do you fit into all this?"
DD: "J.B. Prewlitt, hand model ... and that's when I found out I was in line to assassinate Jimmy Carter."
Time: "But how did you manage to escape?"
DD: "'Cus I'm a hand model Mama. We don't think the same way as the face and body models do. We're a different breed."
DZ: "So why male models?"
DD: "Think about it Derek. Male models are genetically constructed to become assassins. They're in peak physical condition. They can gain entry into the most secure places in the world. And most important of all, models don't think for themselves. They do as they're told."
DZ: "That is not true."
DD: "Yes it is Derek."
DZ: "Okay."
DD: "Yeah. Think about any photo shoot you've ever been on."
DZ: "Good point."
Time: "But if this has been going on for so long - Mugatu?"
DD: "He's just a punk-ass errand boy working for an international syndicate of fashion designers. You do a little background check on Mugatu and you'll find that he's sold his soul to the devil for a shot at the big time.
DZ: "But why male models?"
DD: "Are you serious. I just, I just told you that a moment ago."
http://www.orwelltoday.com/moviezoolander.shtml
The group that claimed responsibility for the act directly aligned themselves with Islam. That in itself obviously does not condemn all muslims, however the kick-back on this relates to the appropriateness of the proposal.
It's likely that you wouldn't support Israel building a synagogue on a site in Palestine that was alleged to have been destroyed by Israeli forces... this is the same thing
They did have the dialogue. Though they were under no obligation as per city bylaws, they'd decided to get City Council's approval anyway, with only one member voting against (so we're not talking about a 50%+1 majority supporting this, but rather overwhelming approval). So it would seem it has much support from the local community. I'd also watched a few videos of news anchors asking New Yorkers on the streets, and it would seem the opinions ranged from wholehearted support and even encouragement down to some mild discomfort, a far cry from outright anger. So with the general community being very much in favour of it, why not help to develop a devastated area rather than some part of town less in need for such development?
Of course. I just don't understand why one would be offended though? What is the source of the offense if it's not blaming Muslims for what happened on 911? They had zilch to do with it, so why should they apologize? Could you imagine Christian churches across Canada somehow feeling obliged to consult with the community about building a church next to a school when they have nothing to do with any pedophilia? This is what you seem to be proposing, that somehow to build dialogue and good relations, Christians ought to build churches farther away from schools so as to not offend a small minority of anti-Christian bigots?
Exactly. Now imagine a local gay community feeling offended at a congregation that had nothing to do with the protest in the video wanting to build a church next to a local gay club, offended because of the protest in the video. Clearly it would not be fair to take your your wrath at the actions of one community against another just because you associate them with the same Faith in your minds. This is exactly what's happening with the mosque.
Just came across this:
Here's an idea, if Rauf is so interested in trying to "push back against the voices of extremism", why doesn't he open his mosque/community center in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan? Those are the places where this alleged hijacking of Islam is taking place. Go there and show the people running the Islamic purity police or the madrassas the error of their ways. Help to bring them into the 21st century world where people are supposed to respect one another and coexist.
The very fact that there were not riots and wanton killing of Muslims after 9/11 or any of the other Islamic attacks here shows we Americans pretty much have this tolerance thing covered. If Rauf is so damn worried about the future go where the next set of killers are and put them on the right path.
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/301562.php
Here's an idea, if Rauf is so interested in trying to "push back against the voices of extremism", why doesn't he open his mosque/community center in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan? Those are the places where this alleged hijacking of Islam is taking place. Go there and show the people running the Islamic purity police or the madrassas the error of their ways. Help to bring them into the 21st century world where people are supposed to respect one another and coexist.
The very fact that there were not riots and wanton killing of Muslims after 9/11 or any of the other Islamic attacks here shows we Americans pretty much have this tolerance thing covered. If Rauf is so damn worried about the future go where the next set of killers are and put them on the right path.
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/301562.php
Just a correction: there were in fact attacks on mosques in the US after 911.
Now as for the rest of it, you do realize don't you that many Muslims are born and raised in the US, some for generations? In fact, to take one Canadian example, I'd met a Cree Muslim once. So would you propose she 'go back to where she came from'?
I don't know the composition of Rauf's congregation, but I'd think it reasonable to suppose that there could very well be the odd blond-haired, blue-eyed Muslim among his congregants who was born and raised in the US. Maybe even another American Cree Muslim. Seeing that they're the ones funding the mosque, why would it be built across the globe?
So whereas before you were confounding Islam with terrorism, now you're confounding it with Arab ethnicity. Many Muslims are not Arab. Have you ever visited a mosque before? I have, in Victoria BC, Kitchener-Waterloo ON, Shanghai, Beijing and Hong Kong, and I can tell you that their congregations are generally more ethnically diverse than the local community on average and quite honestly, often more diverse than the average local church; and I was raised Catholic and have attended many masses in my childhood across Canada and abroad.
Muslims are not synonymous with Arabs in the least.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/reac_ter1.htm
It would seem that Muslims have in fact been the greatest victims of 911 in the US.
Clearly the link you posted is clueless if it says there were no attacks on Muslims.
It would seem that Muslims have in fact been the greatest victims of 911 in the US.
Clearly the link you posted is clueless if it says there were no attacks on Muslims.