Peak Oil is here

[Slim Chance]

The point about PEMEX is not political or efficiency, only that they have made significant discoveries and can potentially exploit them.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Sheikh Yamani predicts price crash as age of oil ends - Telegraph

1. This article is 10 years old.

2. The sheik would never say anything like this today as more and more cars are being sold that need more and more oil. China and the BRICs were not huge car buyers like they are today.

3. The sheik made the famous and ludicrous statement here that the stone age ended not because of a shortage of stone. Bronze replaced stone because it was better. There is nothing better than oil for energy. And he said in the article that oil in 30 years will lie unused, just sitting in the ground. Not likely.

4. Peak oil means the end of CHEAP oil and cheap everying else and an easy life.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

I'm in fort macmurray now and i can tell you theres no slowdown in future production,were trying out a new technology that will take the lifespan of a tailings pond from a very long time to under ten years before they can be reclaimed,it's all new and when improved and perfected on will make oilsands even cheaper to mine and produce and of course more environmentally friendly.

The oil sands are tar sands and they are dirty. They use up huge amounts of water. Their EROEI is only about 5. Conventional oil is 25 to 75. The tar sands are simply extremely energy intensive and will have questionable utility if peak oil hits because it is very expensive energy.

 

[AnnaG]

1. This article is 10 years old.

Yeah. I thought that was funny.

4. Peak oil means the end of CHEAP oil

Yup.

and cheap everying else and an easy life.

......... unless we get better, sustainable sources of energy.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

The point about PEMEX is not political or efficiency, only that they have made significant discoveries and can potentially exploit them.

In Mexico, also known as bandit country and the land of revolutions, will have some difficulty at times successfully drilling for oil. Canada gets large amounts of energy investment dollars because the govt lets them work in relatively normal conditions. In some countries things are unstable and the govt nationalizes your biz. Which may happen if peak oil hits because there is no living with $500 bbl oil. It will require close regulation and people and companies will still make money. Politics is very important in the world today.

 

[Slim Chance]

So, does that mean that the oil fields in Mexico don't exist?

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

So, does that mean that the oil fields in Mexico don't exist?

They are very real senor, but we not be developing them today, or tomorrow. We will be developing them manana.

 

[Kakato]

The oil sands are tar sands and they are dirty. They use up huge amounts of water. Their EROEI is only about 5. Conventional oil is 25 to 75. The tar sands are simply extremely energy intensive and will have questionable utility if peak oil hits because it is very expensive energy.

Must be why theres so many thousands of new people rolling in there every few months for jobs,she's a boom town my friend and from the money I see them spending to do do a job in a week that would take a day anywhere else...it must be profitable.You really cant comment on the oilsands unless your up there or involved,what you read as propaganda is just total B.S.

Now,were going to take tailings and make them clean enough for you to plant a garden on in 20 days,thats not dirty by any means,most any other mining industry would love to be able to do this but they cant.Good job security for me as I can see this going way past the 5 year pilot project were going to do on reclaiming tailings that are close to 30 years old.The fact that this article is so old is proof that some really dont care about the oilsands(it is bitumen and thats oil) shows that the peeps who posted it are a tad biased.

Funny thing is that most folks up there arent even Albertans,there from all over Canada and the rest of the world so the jobs created are well worth keeping expansions rolling in the oilsands and it will,you havent seen nothing yet,no one will even care about mid east oil soon and that will cut a lot of problems off and maybe the terrorists can go find another reason to keep killing kuffar's.:smile:

 

[AnnaG]

Jeez. Here we go again. "Well, yoo never bin there so you're clooliss". A lot of people have never been to the sun either but we sure know a lot about it.
Bitumen is not oil, it is oil-based. Basically is is a think sludge that flows like molasses in winter. Oil is derived from it.

Canadian Society of Petroleum Geologists (CSPG)

 

[captain morgan]

Now,were going to take tailings and make them clean enough for you to plant a garden on in 20 days,thats not dirty by any means,most any other mining industry would love to be able to do this but they cant.

What process is being used in the reclamation?

 

[AnnaG]

Search Results | Canadian Society of Petroleum Geologists (CSPG)

 

[Kakato]

Jeez. Here we go again. "Well, yoo never bin there so you're clooliss". A lot of people have never been to the sun either but we sure know a lot about it.
Bitumen is not oil, it is oil-based. Basically is is a think sludge that flows like molasses in winter. Oil is derived from it.

Canadian Society of Petroleum Geologists (CSPG)

A lot of people comment on stuff they have no knowledge of also or gleen from the net which I'm sorry to say,isnt on the net yet,give me a year and I'll publish what were doing,it's kinda hush hush right now for the most part,trade secrets and all.

What process is being used in the reclamation?

Mixing polymers with 40 year old tailings that would not settle for another 100 years to seperate the bitumen from the sand particles so the h2o can then evaporate and leave a clean sand that can be used for allmost anything.The government really forced them to come up with something and Albertans are allways up to the challenge plus the threat of some hefty fines might have made the big operators start looking at these new technologies a bit closer.

20 days from dredging up 40 year old tailings untill it is recalaimable, in 20 days,it's in most of the energy magazines and has been for the last 2 years,just now it is going to be done.

Yes Anna,we can all google but that doesnt explain what I just did in 500 words or less about what is going to happen.Your either on board with this new technology or your so biased that you shouldnt comment because most petroleum engineers havent even heard of this or are not involved,I did mention it is new technology right? They have only done this for 6 months so far,it will be a standard soon and you can then maybe find it on google in a year or more

 

[AnnaG]

A lot of people comment on stuff they have no knowledge of also or gleen from the net which I'm sorry to say,isnt on the net yet,give me a year and I'll publish what were doing,it's kinda hush hush right now for the most part,trade secrets and all.

You blew it. Now you'll have spies hanging around you.

Mixing polymers with 40 year old tailings that would not settle for another 100 years to seperate the bitumen from the sand particles so the h2o can then evaporate and leave a clean sand that can be used for allmost anything.The government really forced them to come up with something and Albertans are allways up to the challenge plus the threat of some hefty fines might have made the big operators start looking at these new technologies a bit closer.

20 days from dredging up 40 year old tailings untill it is recalaimable, in 20 days,it's in most of the energy magazines and has been for the last 2 years,just now it is going to be done.

Cool.

Yes Anna,we can all google but that doesnt explain what I just did in 500 words or less about what is going to happen.

I had no intention of explaining what is going to happen. I wanted to post what the real facts were according to the geologists who study the petroleum issue, rather than the "facts" according to you.

Your either on board with this new technology or your so biased that you shouldnt comment because most petroleum engineers havent even heard of this or are not involved,

I'm "on board" with pretty much anything that cleans up the mess that we created in the first place. Still pretty fumigated, aren'tcha? I never said anything about your secret little project.

I did mention it is new technology right? They have only done this for 6 months so far,it will be a standard soon and you can then maybe find it on google in a year or more

Whoopdedoo. As far as the gov't cracking down on the oil companies goes, it isn't news. Last year it was news:

FFWD - Calgary News & Views - News - Tarsands tailings will grow despite new rules: Pembina

Reclamation isn't new either.

Reclamation — Sustainability - Suncor

Shrinking the Tailings Pond - Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers

http://www.energymattersmidwest.org/cm/pdfs/Suncor.pdf

Some secret. I just found this in a post Kakato made in another thread:

In a nutshell,tailings are like small boats,the sand after it's extracted and pumped into the ponds are like little boats and take decades to settle because of the bitumen thats still attached,the water cant evaporate and the sand cant settle so it sits for many years but if you dredge and pump them out into a holding tank and mix it with polymers it seperates and can then be pumped onto an open cell or field,tilled with huge harrows and be good to use for roadwork or reclamation in 20 days as the water will evaporate after being mixed with the polymers.

 

[captain morgan]

Mixing polymers with 40 year old tailings that would not settle for another 100 years to seperate the bitumen from the sand particles so the h2o can then evaporate and leave a clean sand that can be used for allmost anything.

20 days from dredging up 40 year old tailings untill it is recalaimable, in 20 days,it's in most of the energy magazines and has been for the last 2 years,just now it is going to be done.

Thanks, I'll take a look... I would have imagined that the process would have involved bacteriological remediation.

 

[Kakato]

Thanks, I'll take a look... I would have imagined that the process would have involved bacteriological remediation.

The initial process is quite similiar to how they wash coal to seperate it from the rock,they use centrifuges,cyclones and froth tanks but because of the shape of the sand crystals their is allways some bitumen that wont unattach itself from the sand and thats whats in the tailings ponds,this product wont settle for many decades and more or less floats so the polymer attaches itself to the bitumen molecules and more or less dilutes it to the point where it will let go off the sand crystals.I found it interesting that untill treated,the tailings wont evaporate like normal water will in the sun and wind.Most of the energy magazines out there go into it in more detail but thats it in laymens terms and it's not very complicated. I guess when your under a microscope from the rest of the world though you have to do your due diligence and especially when you consider just how much oil is still in the ground,they make new discoveries every week and this will spill over(pardon the pun) to Saskatchewan as they also have huge reserves of oilsands.
I'm a minority as an Albertan in Fort mac and cant believe how every instructor in every course I have taken the last 2 weeks points out how all these workers are here for one thing,money.Their not ashamed to admit it either.

 

[captain morgan]

I was involved (for a period) with a group that was applying bacteriological remediation techniques to drill cuttings.... I can fully appreciate the task at hand.

BTW - I believe that the reason that the water component doesn't evaporate easily is due to the complexity of the bituminous H-C chain (C72). The amount of energy required to break that bond is much greater than (solar) direct volatization.

Thanks for the scientific update... I've been out of that game for a while but still harbour an interest.

 

[Extrafire]

The myth of peak oil. Hmmm

Okay show me the evidence, or refernces that people were talking about peak oil over one hundred years ago. They weren't. Why there are fairy tales going around on such a serious topic like peak oil is baffling. Too many Canadians are out in left field here. This ignorance will cost us.

Well they were. I had an article a few years ago that listed all the scary claims of peak oil, including those used to promote the sale of lamp oil to housewives. Lost it long ago. Too bad. Would have liked to show you.

Countries like Canada have a lot of waste because cheap oil allows us to have a lot of cheap stuff. The "throwaway society" is a relatively new concept. They didn't have it in the hungry thirties. In case you didn't know, the 1930s had a major depression. Times were very bad, people had just enough to eat. Food was not fast then either.

I fail to see what point you are trying to make, or how it relates to the topic at hand.

1. This article is 10 years old.

Yes I know. It's dated right at the beginning of the article. :roll: Your point being?

2. The sheik would never say anything like this today as more and more cars are being sold that need more and more oil. China and the BRICs were not huge car buyers like they are today.

I'm not a mind reader but I expect he would. The basic premise is unchanged.

3. The sheik made the famous and ludicrous statement here that the stone age ended not because of a shortage of stone. Bronze replaced stone because it was better. There is nothing better than oil for energy. And he said in the article that oil in 30 years will lie unused, just sitting in the ground. Not likely

Well you understand the premise, that stone was replaced by something better, and oil will be too, which means that someday a lot of oil will be sitting unused in the ground, but as I said, he was way wrong on the timeframe. It will happen eventually.

4. Peak oil means the end of CHEAP oil and cheap everying else and an easy life.

No, it just means that we're not finding as much as we used to and we won't ever again because there isn't as much to be found any more. The price of oil depends on the laws of supply and demand. Even if we're beyond the peak, it's still readily available If the demand rises the price will rise, just as it recently rose to 150 per barrel. If demand drops as it did with the economic crash, the price will drop. Relatively speaking, it's actually quite cheap. Since we have 90 years of proven reserves (and still finding more every year, even if not as much as before) scarcity won't enter the picture for many decades to come. Do you really think we'll still be using it 100 years hence the way we are now? Could anyone at the beginning of the 20th century have imagined the kind of technology that we would be using by the end of it? Yamanni was right.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Well they were. I had an article a few years ago that listed all the scary claims of peak oil, including those used to promote the sale of lamp oil to housewives. Lost it long ago. Too bad. Would have liked to show you.


I fail to see what point you are trying to make, or how it relates to the topic at hand.

Yes I know. It's dated right at the beginning of the article. :roll: Your point being?


I'm not a mind reader but I expect he would. The basic premise is unchanged.

Well you understand the premise, that stone was replaced by something better, and oil will be too, which means that someday a lot of oil will be sitting unused in the ground, but as I said, he was way wrong on the timeframe. It will happen eventually.


No, it just means that we're not finding as much as we used to and we won't ever again because there isn't as much to be found any more. The price of oil depends on the laws of supply and demand. Even if we're beyond the peak, it's still readily available If the demand rises the price will rise, just as it recently rose to 150 per barrel. If demand drops as it did with the economic crash, the price will drop. Relatively speaking, it's actually quite cheap. Since we have 90 years of proven reserves (and still finding more every year, even if not as much as before) scarcity won't enter the picture for many decades to come. Do you really think we'll still be using it 100 years hence the way we are now? Could anyone at the beginning of the 20th century have imagined the kind of technology that we would be using by the end of it? Yamanni was right.

There is no substance that can replace oil. Nothing. But hey, just because we haven't found hundreds of billions of barrels of oil somewhere or made a stunning breakthrough doesn't mean it can't happen. Don't be worried at all by current projections.

Yamani, rich and secure, part of a kingdom that considers Saudis and the entire country the property of the Saud family. This sort of mentality may not understand the larger world to a precise degree.

The laws of supply and demand won't find oil that is not there. No matter what the price is. Oil companies in Alberta have tried since 2000 to increase conventional oil output, they have spent billions of dollars and not got much more output. Just a sign. But that doesn't mean they won't succeed later, or some other jurisdiction.

Must be why theres so many thousands of new people rolling in there every few months for jobs,she's a boom town my friend and from the money I see them spending to do do a job in a week that would take a day anywhere else...it must be profitable.You really cant comment on the oilsands unless your up there or involved,what you read as propaganda is just total B.S.

Now,were going to take tailings and make them clean enough for you to plant a garden on in 20 days,thats not dirty by any means,most any other mining industry would love to be able to do this but they cant.Good job security for me as I can see this going way past the 5 year pilot project were going to do on reclaiming tailings that are close to 30 years old.The fact that this article is so old is proof that some really dont care about the oilsands(it is bitumen and thats oil) shows that the peeps who posted it are a tad biased.

Funny thing is that most folks up there arent even Albertans,there from all over Canada and the rest of the world so the jobs created are well worth keeping expansions rolling in the oilsands and it will,you havent seen nothing yet,no one will even care about mid east oil soon and that will cut a lot of problems off and maybe the terrorists can go find another reason to keep killing kuffar's.:smile:

I can comment on the tar sands all I want. I have never been there so I have to learn about it and what I have learned is that the EROEI in low, that's standard knowledge. Denying facts is not good.

The tailings are dirty, so dirty they just sit there for years. Plus it takes a lot of water to turn this tar into oil. And it's low quality oil.

An apostrophe wasn't needed on kuffars. It would be needed in the sentence, "A kuffar's silly beliefs."

 

[Kakato]

There is no substance that can replace oil. Nothing. But hey, just because we haven't found hundreds of billions of barrels of oil somewhere or made a stunning breakthrough doesn't mean it can't happen. Don't be worried at all by current projections.

Yamani, rich and secure, part of a kingdom that considers Saudis and the entire country the property of the Saud family. This sort of mentality may not understand the larger world to a precise degree.

The laws of supply and demand won't find oil that is not there. No matter what the price is. Oil companies in Alberta have tried since 2000 to increase conventional oil output, they have spent billions of dollars and not got much more output. Just a sign. But that doesn't mean they won't succeed later, or some other jurisdiction.



I can comment on the tar sands all I want. I have never been there so I have to learn about it and what I have learned is that the EROEI in low, that's standard knowledge. Denying facts is not good.

The tailings are dirty, so dirty they just sit there for years. Plus it takes a lot of water to turn this tar into oil. And it's low quality oil.

An apostrophe wasn't needed on kuffars. It would be needed in the sentence, "A kuffar's silly beliefs."

Of course the tailingsare dirty,thats what were doing,cleaning them up for the first time ever and lots of the water used in the extraction is reclaimed water from the tailings ponds,most of the rest of it comes from underground and is unuesable for anything else,thats why lots of wells drilled are for brackish water and not oil or gas,it's then piped to whatever facility needs it for extraction or when injection is used.

And the oil produced is far from low grade oil.Dont know where you got that from.

 

[TenPenny]

And the oil produced is far from low grade oil.Dont know where you got that from.

That would depend on whether you meant before it went to the upgrader or not.