Are there any Métis on this forum?

[gerryh]

Feel free to call yourself whatever you want but it's fact that the Jesuit order used the Metis to extend missionary work as far west as possible.

and it's a fact that the Hudson Bay Company used the Metis as guides and traders to further their expansion. They then ceded tracks of company owned lands to said Metis for compensation which ended up being confiscated by various governments. Does this mean that only those that can trace their roots back to Hudson Bay employment are Metis?

The Jesuits used more than just Metis as guides. They used who they could get, whether that be Metis, Indian or Voyageurs.

 

[petros]

HBC were late comers to the game.

 

[gerryh]

HBC were late comers to the game.

Really? How "late in the game"?

 

[petros]

"Hudson Bay Company period (1787 to 1870). The Hudson Bay Company is established in 1670, but had very little impact on Canadian culture until after about 1787. They considered themselves as foreign traders; not allowed to mix with the Indians, Canadians (French) or those Peddlers, as they called the Metis. "

 

[gerryh]

"Hudson Bay Company period (1787 to 1870). The Hudson Bay Company is established in 1670, but had very little impact on Canadian culture until after about 1787. They considered themselves as foreign traders; not allowed to mix with the Indians, Canadians (French) or those Peddlers, as they called the Metis. "

I could despute your hard dates but I won't. How about the Jesuits, when did they start expanding and making a major impact on more than just a few tribes in "Quebec" and "eastern Ontario".

come on Petros, you've been flappin your gums about the Jesuits....... let's hear all about their mass expansion across what would become Canada.

 

[petros]

I could despute your hard dates but I won't. How about the Jesuits, when did they start expanding and making a major impact on more than just a few tribes in "Quebec" and "eastern Ontario".

You could but you'd be disputing "The Complete History of the Canadian Metis Culture" and no tme.

As for the Jesuits the first "official" settlement in the west was 1812 according to the Catholic Encyclopedia but they were setting up missions at Lake of the Woods in 1735.

The Jesuits claimed:
"Not a cape was turned, not a river entered, but a Jesuit led the Way"
The People said:
The Jesuits (black robes) are damnable liers (liars).
Even the most amateur of historian knows the actual explorers of New France
(Canada and the American West) were
without question the Coureurs de Bois and Metis.
The First People had little desire to explore America:
They however led the way for the Coureurs de bois and Metis
They were fully aware of the four seas to the north/south, east/west,
they believed their own location was the best.

 

[AnnaG]

I think there are Metis that disagree with other Metis about their history. It seems that their origins started from French and Scottish fur traders and native women of 4 or 5 clans sometime in the late 1600s. That is the oldest date I found so far: it's from Metis Community Services Site

 

[gerryh]

You could but you'd be disputing "The Complete History of the Canadian Metis Culture" and no tme.

As for the Jesuits the first "official" settlement in the west was 1812 according to the Catholic Encyclopedia but they were setting up missions at Lake of the Woods in 1735.

and then the English ,after they defeated the French in 1760 , forbid the Jesuits to recruit any new adherents. It was not untill pope Pius VII reinstated the society and the Bishop of Montreal in 1842 request Jesuits did they once again actively recruit in the new world. By this time the Hudson Bay Company had a very well established relationship with the Metis across all of Canada.

I think there are Metis that disagree with other Metis about their history. It seems that their origins started from French and Scottish fur traders and native women of 4 or 5 clans sometime in the late 1600s. That is the oldest date I found so far: it's from Metis Community Services Site

That is the way I understood it myself. Most, if not all, of those traders were or ended up employees of the Hudson Bay Company which is why the Company ceded land to many Metis around North/central Manitoba.

 

[petros]

and then the English ,after they defeated the French in 1760 , forbid the Jesuits to recruit any new adherents. It was not untill pope Pius VII reinstated the society and the Bishop of Montreal in 1842 request Jesuits did they once again actively recruit in the new world. By this time the Hudson Bay Company had a very well established relationship with the Metis across all of Canada.




That is the way I understood it myself. Most, if not all, of those traders were or ended up employees of the Hudson Bay Company which is why the Company ceded land to many Metis around North/central Manitoba.

The French Jesuits were pretty much punted but that didn't stop Irish Jesuits from coming west. As for being hired by HBC for sure because they used to work for the Northwest Company until HBC bought them and merged in 1821

 

[gerryh]

The French Jesuits were pretty much punted but that didn't stop Irish Jesuits from coming west. As for being hired by HBC for sure because they used to work for the Northwest Company until HBC bought them and merged in 1821

Sorry, the Jesuits were pretty much shut down in the New World. Pope Clement XIV suppressed the Society of Jesuits in 1773. The Jesuits came to an end in Canada untill the request by the Bishop of Montreal with the death of Father Casot in 1800.

So, in reality, the HBC had a much larger and far reaching impact on Canada and the natives of Canada.

 

[petros]

Sorry, the Jesuits were pretty much shut down in the New World. Pope Clement XIV suppressed the Society of Jesuits in 1773. The Jesuits came to an end in Canada untill the request by the Bishop of Montreal with the death of Father Casot in 1800.

So, in reality, the HBC had a much larger and far reaching impact on Canada and the natives of Canada.

You really think HBC had more influence than ther Church? That's ****ing hillarious!

 

[gerryh]

You really think HBC had more influence than ther Church? That's ****ing hillarious!

Up to the mid 1800's, yes.

 

[petros]

From 1535 until the formation of HBC in 1670's it was purly the church carving out a colony A royal didn't **** or piss without papal permission.

By 1640 the church had already set up missions as far as the Huron and Algonquin lands. HBC didn't set up shop in the area until long after and HBC like most other ventures of such size were all funded by the vatican.

Check it out. This page gives an excellent timeline of the church in Canada.

It's an excellent but brief read. I hope you enjoy it.


Catholic Indian Missions of Canada CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Catholic Indian Missions of Canada

 

[gerryh]

From 1535 until the formation of HBC in 1670's it was purly the church carving out a colony A royal didn't **** or piss without papal permission.

By 1640 the church had already set up missions as far as the Huron and Algonquin lands. HBC didn't set up shop in the area until long after and HBC like most other ventures of such size were all funded by the vatican.

Check it out. This page gives an excellent timeline of the church in Canada.

It's an excellent but brief read. I hope you enjoy it.


Catholic Indian Missions of Canada CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Catholic Indian Missions of Canada

well, that only goes to 1750, which is understandable since Rome shut the Jesuits down shortly after that. Also note, upto that time they basically only had missions along the St. Lawrence.

and the HBC was funded by the Vatican? Really? Would you mind supplying a citation for that?

 

[Cliffy]

Pierre-Jean De Smet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It would appear that the good Jesuit missionary had an earlier start in the Americas than mid 1800s. He arrived on the Columbia in about 1845. His Small Pox vaccine netted him and his brethren "a large harvest of souls" of our native people, the Sinixt, only if they converted to Catholicism. Those that didn't were left to die.

 

[gerryh]

Pierre-Jean De Smet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It would appear that the good Jesuit missionary had an earlier start in the Americas than mid 1800s. He arrived on the Columbia in about 1845. His Small Pox vaccine netted him and his brethren "a large harvest of souls" of our native people, the Sinixt, only if they converted to Catholicism. Those that didn't were left to die.

rofl...1845 isn't mid 1800's? nit pick much?

 

[petros]

well, that only goes to 1750, which is understandable since Rome shut the Jesuits down shortly after that. Also note, upto that time they basically only had missions along the St. Lawrence.

and the HBC was funded by the Vatican? Really? Would you mind supplying a citation for that?

The Jesuit order never ended and is in full swing today. They went underground until Pius VII reinstated the order in 1814..

The Jesuits founded the Bank of England. Look it up. I'm sure you'll find links.

"Bank of England in 1694. The Bank of "England" was actually the first bank to be named after a country and after the "Bank" of Rome it was the world's first Central Bank."

 

[Cliffy]

rofl...1845 isn't mid 1800's? nit pick much?

He was setting up missions in Iowa in the 1820s.

 

[gerryh]

He was setting up missions in Iowa in the 1820s.

Iowa isn't Canada. The Jesuits didn't return to Canada untill The Bishop of Montreal requested them from Rome in 1842.

 

[VanIsle]

roflmao....so....ultimatley it is up to a political organisation/group to decide if my family and I are Metis. I wonder what the "cost" is to recieve Metis "membership"?

I have one cousin who went forward with our native ancestry. He is a card carrying Metis. We are Irish/Cowichan mix from BC so - go figure!! I don't think he paid anything for it. He gets the benefits though.