The stratified heavens: the gaseous layers of the stratosphere?

[AnnaG]

:roll: Yeah, that sure is scientific alright. :tard:
The only foundation for the science in the Quran is the Quran. It saying that it is the truth because it says it is the truth. No independant, supporting evidence; just hearsay and a profound misunderstanding of science.

 

[Cliffy]

It is only for joking; or am I a teacher giving degrees for his students?
Or should I be friendly with one that reviles God Almighty?

Love thy neighbour as thyself. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That you don't love all equally is a sure sign that you are incapable of loving anybody, including yourself, because love is unconditional. If you cannot be friendly with those who do not believe as you do, then you make them your enemy. That is how wars start. If your god condones such behaviour, then he is not the same god as Jesus described in "turn the other cheek". Forgive your enemies for they are but a reflection of a part of you that you reject.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Your scientific thinking lacks the considering of some mistakes that are possible to be done by scientists; why not?.

I'm very much aware of mistakes scientists have made, and how, when, and by whom, they were eventually corrected, that's the nature of the scientific enterprise, and I venture to suggest I know a great deal more about the history of science than you do. You, on the other hand, consider the Quran to be without error and the ultimate authority on all things, and your sole justification for that is the Quran's claims about itself. You routinely commit the fallacy of self-reference--citing an authority in support of itself-- and the argument from authority fallacy--citing an authority without supporting evidence--based on those beliefs. And inevitably it leads you astray into demonstrably false beliefs, like the moon and Venus having stopped their axial rotation. They have not, and we know they have not because it's directly observable.

 

[Cliffy]

Believers don't let facts get in the way. It's kinda like talking to a brick wall.

 

[Downhome_Woman]

It is only God that is absolutely correct and absoultely truthful.

I don't think the ratios that you gave are correct.

DB, don't resent :smile:

You are only about 20% correct. (this is ok for you; see the rest of the group)

L Gilb. is under zero correct: -80% correct
Dexter about zero correct. Bar Left follows him on the same scale.
#Juan 20% correct.
Cliffy -90% correct.

While AnnaG, Talloolla, Downhome_ their error is uncountable: -272

And so on:

I do rely on the Quran that is 100% correct and its interpretation 98% correct.
And I hope that I am 90% correct, while I search about my mistakes to correct them according to the Quran and its interpretation. :sign7:

Quran Interpretation

Wow! E.I.Nasser, why am I not surprised that you find the women to be so 'uncorrect'? You're only following the beliefs of your 'prophet' after all - you know, the whole, 'women are crooked because they're created from a rib, women are stupid - you need two for a witness, so that one can remind the other if she forgets, and - oh yes - the woman as a 'tillith' to be plowed and cultivated at a man's will. figures you've put us 'uppity, crooked' women together.
Anna, Talloolla, I'm honoured to be in your company.

 

[eanassir]

Love thy neighbour as thyself. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That you don't love all equally is a sure sign that you are incapable of loving anybody, including yourself, because love is unconditional. If you cannot be friendly with those who do not believe as you do, then you make them your enemy. That is how wars start. If your god condones such behaviour, then he is not the same god as Jesus described in "turn the other cheek". Forgive your enemies for they are but a reflection of a part of you that you reject.

You are a people that rob the words of their meaning.

I said the one that reviles God; such one is like one who strives to contradict and disprove God and His Quran. These will not be like other disbelievers: because disbelievers are many kinds and belivers are many kinds.

So if a disbeliever is thinking, let him think and seek help of God, and God will guide him, if he is sincere and loyal and true in his desire.

But the one that adopts an attitude against God; this is different and is an enemy of God in fact.

 

[eanassir]

I'm very much aware of mistakes scientists have made, and how, when, and by whom, they were eventually corrected, that's the nature of the scientific enterprise, and I venture to suggest I know a great deal more about the history of science than you do. You, on the other hand, consider the Quran to be without error and the ultimate authority on all things, and your sole justification for that is the Quran's claims about itself. You routinely commit the fallacy of self-reference--citing an authority in support of itself-- and the argument from authority fallacy--citing an authority without supporting evidence--based on those beliefs. And inevitably it leads you astray into demonstrably false beliefs, like the moon and Venus having stopped their axial rotation. They have not, and we know they have not because it's directly observable.

This is not the argument of authority as have I explained in post #96

While about Moon and Venus, you say they move around themselves; would you tell us in summary how do they spin around themselves?

And as did MHz say in a past reply: What keeps the Moon to move in such a way?

 

[eanassir]

Wow! E.I.Nasser, why am I not surprised that you find the women to be so 'uncorrect'? You're only following the beliefs of your 'prophet' after all - you know, the whole, 'women are crooked because they're created from a rib, women are stupid - you need two for a witness, so that one can remind the other if she forgets, and - oh yes - the woman as a 'tillith' to be plowed and cultivated at a man's will. figures you've put us 'uppity, crooked' women together.
Anna, Talloolla, I'm honoured to be in your company.

# Juan is triumphant over you.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

This is not the argument of authority as have I explained in post #96

That post explained nothing, you obviously have no idea what the argument from authority fallacy means. Look it up. As for the matter of the moon and Venus and their axial rotation, try this. You and a friend go to some open space, stand a few metres apart, and you walk in a circle around him in such a way that you're always facing him. As you do that, look beyond him to the background and observe how it shifts. And then just stand in one place and turn your body around a vertical axis, and observe how the background shifts in exactly the same way. To walk around your friend and always be facing him, you have to rotate your body around its vertical axis. That's what the moon does in orbiting the earth. It makes one orbit in about 28 days, and that matches its period of rotation, exactly as you'll have to do to walk around your friend and always keep facing him.

 

[eanassir]

That post explained nothing, you obviously have no idea what the argument from authority fallacy means. Look it up. As for the matter of the moon and Venus and their axial rotation, try this. You and a friend go to some open space, stand a few metres apart, and you walk in a circle around him in such a way that you're always facing him. As you do that, look beyond him to the background and observe how it shifts. And then just stand in one place and turn your body around a vertical axis, and observe how the background shifts in exactly the same way. To walk around your friend and always be facing him, you have to rotate your body around its vertical axis. That's what the moon does in orbiting the earth. It makes one orbit in about 28 days, and that matches its period of rotation, exactly as you'll have to do to walk around your friend and always keep facing him.

I know very well what the argument from authority is. And I explained to you that it is not any argument of authority.

I mean I say the Quran ayat to confirm the idea and to confirm the Quran marvelous ayat.

Mentioning the Quran ayat will guide whomever God is please to guide, and will misguide whomever God wills to misguide.

In other words I only explain the argument of the Quran against the idolaters and disbelievers and I expound such arguments with more interpretation.

It was the way of Prophet Mohammed - salam be to him - to recite the Quran ayat to them: then whoso likes it, will be guided; and whoso dislikes it, will be misguided.

Like Jesus said his words and simulate his words to: a sower dropped seed on the path, on rocky ground, and among thorns, and the seed was lost; but when seed fell on good earth, it grew, yielding thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold.
Mark 4:1-20, Matthew 13:1-23, and Luke 8:1-15

While as regards the motion of Moon and Venus; let us take it as this: Moon faces the earth always with one face: this is the issue. And what keeps the Moon moving in this strict and exactly the circling around the earth in the same duration of its supposed movement around itself? as did MHz say before.

 

[AnnaG]

Wow! E.I.Nasser, why am I not surprised that you find the women to be so 'uncorrect'? You're only following the beliefs of your 'prophet' after all - you know, the whole, 'women are crooked because they're created from a rib, women are stupid - you need two for a witness, so that one can remind the other if she forgets, and - oh yes - the woman as a 'tillith' to be plowed and cultivated at a man's will. figures you've put us 'uppity, crooked' women together.
Anna, Talloolla, I'm honoured to be in your company.

Thanks. It is mutual. I think Tall and you are far better people than the likes of this propagandising robot.

 

[AnnaG]

I know very well what the argument from authority is. And I explained to you that it is not any argument of authority.

What is it then?

And what keeps the Moon moving in this strict and exactly the circling around the earth in the same duration of its supposed movement around itself? as did MHz say before.

Inertia keeps it spinning on its axis. What keeps its orbit is a combo of distance, inertia, and gravity.

F = G (m1m2)/r2
F= 1.98 x 1020 Newtons

 

[eanassir]

The origin of the gaseous heavens​

The origin of the gaseous heavens is from the Earth: when the Earth was a flaming sun; and the emerging gases were in the form of smoke that was a mixture of seven gases [in addition to the constituents of the air like the Oxygen, the Nitrogen and CO2.] ​

And because some gases are heavy, while some others are light; they started to separate from each other; because the heavy gas came down while the light gas went up, till they became seven layers: ​

the first layer is the ozone gas [layer] about 25 miles away from us, the other layers came under it like the layers of the sulphur dioxide (SO2), the hydrogen, the helium and the rest of the gases. This is roughly speaking, for we cannot know those gases exactly because we are on the Earth and the gases are high up in the sky. ​

The indication, that the sky is gaseous, can be seen in the following Quranic revelation 41:11-12​

ثُمَّ اسْتَوَى إِلَى السَّمَاء وَهِيَ دُخَانٌ فَقَالَ لَهَا وَلِلْأَرْضِ اِئْتِيَا طَوْعًا أَوْ كَرْهًا قَالَتَا أَتَيْنَا طَائِعِينَ . فَقَضَاهُنَّ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ فِي يَوْمَيْنِ ​

The explanation:
(Then He tended to [build*] the sky and it had been smoke; He said to it and to the earth, “Come, both of you, willingly or loath.” The two said, “We [all] have come obedient.” And He separated them into seven firmaments in two days.)
------------------------------------
[*i.e. to make the layers of the gaseous sky distinctive and to build them, or to arrange them as successive layers.]​

The interpretation:
- (Then He tended to [build] the sky) means: the sky of the Earth,
- (And it had been smoke) means the smoke that emerged from the Earth which was in fact a mixture of seven gases,
- (He said to it) i.e. the sky [or the gaseous heaven]
- (and to the earth, “Come, both of you,) to the gravity
- (willingly or loath.” The two said, “We [all] have come obedient” And He separated them) and made them
- (seven firmaments); the explanation: He separated that smoke, and made it seven layers
- (in two days), i.e. within a period of two thousand years; that is because one day of the afterlife equals one thousand of our years.​

The gaseous heavens

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I know very well what the argument from authority is.

Okay. And do you know that it's a fallacy? Even if you think the authority is right, as you obviously do, it's still not a valid argument. Just because the Quran asserts something doesn't mean it's true, you need more than one line of evidence to establish a scientific claim. That's the fallacy you keep repeating. The Quran is not a scientific authority anyway, and using it as such leads you astray. "I mean I say the Quran ayat to confirm the idea and to confirm the Quran marvelous ayat." That is an argument from authority, you're using the Quran to confirm an idea, and to confirm the Quran itself (the fallacy of self-reference) with no other evidence.

Moon faces the earth always with one face: this is the issue.

That's not an issue, it's just a fact.

And what keeps the Moon moving in this strict and exactly the circling around the earth in the same duration of its supposed movement around itself?

F=GMm/r^2, as AnnaG pointed out. It all follows from that.

 

[Downhome_Woman]

# Juan is triumphant over you.

Actually, by your strange statistics, the following are 'triumphant' over me:
L Gilb. is under zero correct: -80% correct
Dexter about zero correct. Bar Left follows him on the same scale.
#Juan 20% correct.
Cliffy -90% correct
but having said that, and the fact that your stats are just ramblings out of your own little head with nothing to back them up (except that I disagree with what you say - which automatically makes everyone who agrees even somewhat with you 'triumphant' over me). Big deal. I wasn't in a race or a competition.
But I guess you could say that your little statement is what encapsulates 'your' Islam. i hear so many say that it's a 'religion of peace', but what they aren't doing is going beyond the media - and actually looking at the history - or actually reading your Q'uran,
If they did, they would find out that Islam is a religion of peace - as long as you agree.
Heck, E.I. Nassir, all they really have to do is sift through your ramblings and your cut and pastes to find that out.Your allah is a kind and loving God - as long as one agrees with him. your Mohammed is a most merciful prophet - as long as you agree to convert.
Quite frankly, I don't feel 'triumphed' by anyone, so that means that whatever YOU might think, I haven't been.

 

[Downhome_Woman]

Thanks. It is mutual. I think Tall and you are far better people than the likes of this propagandising robot.

Yup!

 

[eanassir]

Actually, by your strange statistics, the following are 'triumphant' over me:
L Gilb. is under zero correct: -80% correct
Dexter about zero correct. Bar Left follows him on the same scale.
#Juan 20% correct.
Cliffy -90% correct
but having said that, and the fact that your stats are just ramblings out of your own little head with nothing to back them up (except that I disagree with what you say - which automatically makes everyone who agrees even somewhat with you 'triumphant' over me). Big deal. I wasn't in a race or a competition.
But I guess you could say that your little statement is what encapsulates 'your' Islam. i hear so many say that it's a 'religion of peace', but what they aren't doing is going beyond the media - and actually looking at the history - or actually reading your Q'uran,
If they did, they would find out that Islam is a religion of peace - as long as you agree.
Heck, E.I. Nassir, all they really have to do is sift through your ramblings and your cut and pastes to find that out.Your allah is a kind and loving God - as long as one agrees with him. your Mohammed is a most merciful prophet - as long as you agree to convert.
Quite frankly, I don't feel 'triumphed' by anyone, so that means that whatever YOU might think, I haven't been.

Downhome_
:-( you will keep to your ignorance : i.e -272 correct whatever you shout; that is because of your arrogance: your anti-God and anti-Quran attitude.

In fact you are more rancorous than AnnaG but she shouts more than you, and she reviles and transgresses; so I decided not to answer her anymore, whatever equations and she may write. :-(

 

[eanassir]

Okay. And do you know that it's a fallacy? Even if you think the authority is right, as you obviously do, it's still not a valid argument. Just because the Quran asserts something doesn't mean it's true, you need more than one line of evidence to establish a scientific claim. That's the fallacy you keep repeating. The Quran is not a scientific authority anyway, and using it as such leads you astray. "I mean I say the Quran ayat to confirm the idea and to confirm the Quran marvelous ayat." That is an argument from authority, you're using the Quran to confirm an idea, and to confirm the Quran itself (the fallacy of self-reference) with no other evidence.
That's not an issue, it's just a fact. F=GMm/r^2, as AnnaG pointed out. It all follows from that.

The Quran is full of arguments; I hope to translate all the interpretation of the Quran, by God's will.

I only discuss the agruments of the Quran.

The thing that let some people underestimate the Quran is because of many factors: one of such factors is their growing since childhood and their community inserted in their minds some notions about the Glorious Quran.
The other factor is the translations: defective and in very summerized and concize way, and according to the available interpretations that are defective originally in understanding the word of God: the Quran full of wisdom and knowledge.

E.g. I remind you yourself: you resorted to some rancorous web sites (full of lies compiled by some rancorous people who wrote a very large number of objections to the Quran) against the Quran;

Why was that: when you yourself claim not believing in religions generally? Then you produced such claims against the Quran without checking are they correct or not, and without asking and inquiring: this is an obvious bias in fact.

While the Moon, Venus and Mercury : they do not spin around themselves; they do not spin, people !! Your explanation is not rational and not correct, but only you are rigid in following some available wrong information.

The mistake of Astronomers about Moon
Mercury Has Stopped Its Axial Rotation
Venus Has Stopped Its Axial Rotation

 

[Cliffy]

All I know about the Quran, I learned from eanassir. What I learned was that his god and his prophet were psychopaths and by association, believers, at least the fundamentalist believers, are psychopaths too. I say this not because I revile god. I know the Creator is a loving and benevolent being. The god of the Jews, Christians and Muslims is not. It was invented by men to enslave the minds and hearts of humanity. That is my opinion.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

While the Moon, Venus and Mercury : they do not spin around themselves; they do not spin, people !!

YES THEY BLOODY WELL DO! You haven't a clue what you're talking about.