The stratified heavens: the gaseous layers of the stratosphere?

[Cliffy]

#juan, you are delighted for Dexter said confidentially to me: "you are just wrong" ?
But I told him he is the worng :smile:

There is no scientific proof to substantiate what is written in the Quran, but you present this nonsense as scientific proof and scoff at those that see your assertion for the nonsense it is. You can chose to believe that silly story but you will not find anybody with a high school education outside of Muslim countries to take any of it seriously. It is no more credible than any other fairy tale.

 

[L Gilbert]

You have evaded to answer my questions and you have not given yet any answer to the questions in the post #63 about the Quran aya 65: 12 ​

اللَّهُ الَّذِي خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ وَمِنَ الْأَرْضِ مِثْلَهُنَّ يَتَنَزَّلُ الْأَمْرُ بَيْنَهُنَّ لِتَعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ وَأَنَّ اللَّهَ قَدْ أَحَاطَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عِلْمًا​

The explanation:
(God Who created seven heavens,
and the equal [number] of the earth;
the am'r come down among them;

that you should know that God is Most Able over all things, and that God is Comprehending everything in His knowledge.)


Therefore, I ask you and I challenge all others including Muslims, to explain what is meant by this aya:

and "the equal [number]of the earth" what is it?

Moreover, what are such "seven heavens": are they the ethereal, the gaseous or the planets,

And what is this "am'r" that come down among them?​

Why would anyone concerned with science wish to answer these religious things in a scientific way? Answer: they wouldn't. The science in the Quran is a caricature of real science.

 

[darkbeaver]

#juan, you are delighted for Dexter said confidentially to me: "you are just wrong" ?
But I told him he is the worng :smile:

It's uncommon for someone to be just plain wrong. Dexter has exagerated, as usual. I would guess you are no more than 48.7 % wrong most of the time. This accuracy shouldn'd disturb anyone, it's really very good, all things considered. I'm at most 78.9 % right most of the time, which obviously means I am learning new material. If you could close up the gap somehow, possibly devote more time to your sermons and less to your professional pursuits, we could have more productive conversations which I am sure would be very rewarding for you.:lol:

 

[L Gilbert]

Proof for a nuclear sun---------there isn't any

So? We don't have proof of a lot of issues. That stars are big balls of nuclear fission is the most reasonable explanation and the models we have developed based on that activity are quite accurate with predictions. Besides that we also have helioseismology and the production of a sub-atomic particle called a neutrino.

proof for earths hot core------- " " "

Yeah, magma doesn't exist.

tectonics formed mountains---- " " "

BS On the east side of the rockies there are a couple places where one can see that at least some of the range was formed by a huge portion of the Earth's crust had ridden up over another portion.

The earth is six thousand years old the earth is five billion years old, one religion versus another.

rofl You been playing (religiously) with with your hallucinogens again, haven't you, Beav?

 

[L Gilbert]

You are the wrong.
I said the sun was transformed into an earth, which was not our present earth.

But the past sun was transformed into an earth with a relatively thin crust, and this latter was exploded and 9 pieces resulted which formed the present planets.

So that earth was the mother of our Earth together with the rest of the planets.

It was that sun transfromed into that mother earth: the mother of our Earth and the rest of the planets.

That mother earth was created within 2000 of our years; it means: a thin crust formed to it within 2000 years starting from the time one of its planets stopped axial spinning and its moon swallowed by that sun, which initiated its cooling and that moon acted like the nucleus for such collection of cold material of the crust.
Formation of the planets

The same fate will be of our Sun: it has started cooling from the time Venus stopped its axial spinning, which now circle around the Sun with one hemispehre facing the Sun and the other opposite hemisphere has lasting night.
Venus Has Stopped Its Axial Rotation
The sun will burst

There's no cosmological or astronomical evidence of this and there is lots of evidence supporting our real science.

 

[darkbeaver]

So? We don't have proof of a lot of issues. That stars are big balls of nuclear fission is the most reasonable explanation and the models we have developed based on that activity are quite accurate with predictions. Besides that we also have helioseismology and the production of a sub-atomic particle called a neutrino.

Fusion Les, gravity accretion crush fusion light, can't be done, gravity diminishes as repulsion increases. There has never been an accurate solar prediction based on the fusion model, not even one that remotely approaches the electric models record of accurate prediction. Check it out, why would I lie to ya?

Yeah, magma doesn't exist.

It exists when telluric current runs through rock looking for the opposite charge, ever hear of an electric furnace, how about tektites, vitrified rock? Have a look at the photos of the recent Icelandic warming event, see the lightening spewing out of the spout imbeded in its conducting lava. Lava tubes as well, the helical signature will shock you.

BS On the east side of the rockies there are a couple places where one can see that at least some of the range was formed by a huge portion of the Earth's crust had ridden up over another portion.

Les solid rock does not bury itself in its neighbouring solid rock and slide into it bulgeing up mountain ranges, a much better model of mountain construction is a kind of molten crustal boil that pushes mountains up in very short order, I believe there are videos available that document the arrival of new islands in a matter of hours days weeks.

rofl You been playing (religiously) with with your hallucinogens again, haven't you, Beav?

Hey Les, I bet some shrooms will help with your mental constipation.:lol: How's it going out their on the left side of the world? Have you and the missus got the plowin and seedin done yet?

 

[darkbeaver]

There is no scientific proof to substantiate what is written in the Quran, but you present this nonsense as scientific proof and scoff at those that see your assertion for the nonsense it is. You can chose to believe that silly story but you will not find anybody with a high school education outside of Muslim countries to take any of it seriously. It is no more credible than any other fairy tale.

The little people have asked me to remind you that a guy named Schillermann read some mythological storybook one time and then found Troy. There is, apparently scientific proof that GM crops and floride are good for us. Science ain't really got the shine it useta have, do it? I know there's millions of high school students who believe that soon they will have their genitals removed and accend to heaven.:lol:

 

[L Gilbert]

I won't reply to the jumble of stuff in front of this because you messed up the quote function somehow and I don't want to fix your error. I will say that your science appears to be just as accurate as eanassir's.

Hey Les, I bet some shrooms will help with your mental constipation.:lol: How's it going out their on the left side of the world? Have you and the missus got the plowin and seedin done yet?

Nope. I have no problem with expanding my thoughts. Unlike you, fortunately, my thoughts, when they expand do so within the realms of reality.
We are fine here, thanks. It is a weird spring. It started in February and continued with brief intemmissions of frost and two weak attempts at snowing. Now we have a cherry tree with a lot of blossoms and undeveloped leaves.
Gardens are prepared but we won't plant for a week or so yet.
How're things with you?

 

[darkbeaver]

later

 

[eanassir]

There's no cosmological or astronomical evidence of this and there is lots of evidence supporting our real science.

I gave such an explanation, because they said that the Torah and the Quran tell that God created the earth and heavens in 6 days ( or 6 000 years), and they said the earth is about so billions of years according to science.

So it is explained that such period of time was required for that old dying sun to convert into an initial earth with a thin crust.

Morever, your expression "our science" is a fallacy; because the science is not yours; the science is the science to all people: the investigation and discovery.

 

[eanassir]

It's uncommon for someone to be just plain wrong. Dexter has exagerated, as usual. I would guess you are no more than 48.7 % wrong most of the time. This accuracy shouldn'd disturb anyone, it's really very good, all things considered. I'm at most 78.9 % right most of the time, which obviously means I am learning new material. If you could close up the gap somehow, possibly devote more time to your sermons and less to your professional pursuits, we could have more productive conversations which I am sure would be very rewarding for you.:lol:

It is only God that is absolutely correct and absoultely truthful.

I don't think the ratios that you gave are correct.

DB, don't resent :smile:

You are only about 20% correct. (this is ok for you; see the rest of the group)

L Gilb. is under zero correct: -80% correct
Dexter about zero correct. Bar Left follows him on the same scale.
#Juan 20% correct.
Cliffy -90% correct.

While AnnaG, Talloolla, Downhome_ their error is uncountable: -272

And so on:

I do rely on the Quran that is 100% correct and its interpretation 98% correct.
And I hope that I am 90% correct, while I search about my mistakes to correct them according to the Quran and its interpretation. :sign7:

Quran Interpretation

 

[Dexter Sinister]

And I hope that I am 90% correct, while I search about my mistakes to correct them according to the Quran and its interpretation.

Your hope is false, you're approximately 100% wrong about most scientific claims you make. You can't even grasp simple basic facts, like the fact that neither the moon nor Venus have stopped their axial rotation. If you can't get those, it seems very unlikely you're going to be right about anything more complex. Might help if you'd read something other than the Quran and interpretations of it, you'll never learn anything useful about science that way. What you'll get from those is the argument from authority fallacy, which you display in almost every post you make.

 

[AnnaG]

I gave such an explanation, because they said that the Torah and the Quran tell that God created the earth and heavens in 6 days ( or 6 000 years), and they said the earth is about so billions of years according to science.

So it is explained that such period of time was required for that old dying sun to convert into an initial earth with a thin crust.

The explanation is faulty.

Morever, your expression "our science" is a fallacy; because the science is not yours; the science is the science to all people: the investigation and discovery.

By using the term "our science", he was referring to non-Quranic science; the REAL science based on fact and reason rather than hearsay and opinion.

 

[AnnaG]

It is only God that is absolutely correct and absoultely truthful.

I don't think the ratios that you gave are correct.

DB, don't resent :smile:

You are only about 20% correct. (this is ok for you; see the rest of the group)

Your math ability needs adjusting.

L Gilb. is under zero correct: -80% correct

rofflmfao It is impossible to go below 0%. To put it in Andem's terms, "You are an idiot".

Dexter about zero correct. Bar Left follows him on the same scale.
#Juan 20% correct.
Cliffy -90% correct.

While AnnaG, Talloolla, Downhome_ their error is uncountable: -272

This is simply laughable.

And so on:

I do rely on the Quran that is 100% correct and its interpretation 98% correct.
And I hope that I am 90% correct, while I search about my mistakes to correct them according to the Quran and its interpretation. :sign7:

Quran Interpretation

Your hopes are unfeasibly high. If we are -272, that would give you a factor of about 9486X worse (to use your own inane math).

 

[AnnaG]

Your hope is false, you're approximately 100% wrong about most scientific claims you make. You can't even grasp simple basic facts, like the fact that neither the moon nor Venus have stopped their axial rotation. If you can't get those, it seems very unlikely you're going to be right about anything more complex. Might help if you'd read something other than the Quran and interpretations of it, you'll never learn anything useful about science that way. What you'll get from those is the argument from authority fallacy, which you display in almost every post you make.

100% correct.

 

[eanassir]

You can't even grasp simple basic facts, like the fact that neither the moon nor Venus have stopped their axial rotation.

ccasion6:
Your scientific thinking lacks the considering of some mistakes that are possible to be done by scientists; why not?​

Might help if you'd read something other than the Quran and interpretations of it, you'll never learn anything useful about science that way.

This notion about the Glorious Quran will prevent you from studying it and its interpretation (and every translation is in fact an interpretation). The guidance is not according to your will or the desire of anyone other than God Himself.

I find many non-Muslim people who studied the Quran, and their opinion is contrary to your words, and they admire the Glorious Quran: some of them are Arab and others are non-Arab.

What you'll get from those is the argument from authority fallacy, which you display in almost every post you make.

This is not the argument from authority.

I mention the Quran ayat, to confirm the idea, and to display the greatness of the Quran and to expound many things that are not yet discovered by the science;

so while the Quran concerns all generations till Doomsday, how do you want to restrict it rigidly to the science of this generation while the next generations will almost be higher than the contemporary one;

so in case it coincides with the present science, it will not agree with the coming corrections.

While God knows the present and the future and He knows more than our limited poor and very little knowledge.

Therefore, the Quran is higher than the present knowledge, and the Quran encourages people to investigate and study,

but will never give any erraneous information, eventhough you see it does not agree with something of the present knowledge of contemporary people.

 

[AnnaG]

ccasion6:
Your scientific thinking lacks the considering of some mistakes that are possible to be done by scientists; why not?​

What's with the birthday cake?
Sure scientists make mistakes, then they correct them. People who write books also make mistakes. The book called the Quran is loaded with them, and no-one bothered to correct the mistakes.
​

This notion about the Glorious Quran will prevent you from studying it and its interpretation (and every translation is in fact an interpretation). The guidance is not according to your will or the desire of anyone other than God Himself.

I find many non-Muslim people who studied the Quran, and their opinion is contrary to your words, and they admire the Glorious Quran: some of them are Arab and others are non-Arab.



This is not the argument from authority.

I mention the Quran ayat, to confirm the idea, and to display the greatness of the Quran and to expound many things that are not yet discovered by the science;

so while the Quran concerns all generations till Doomsday, how do you want to restrict it rigidly to the science of this generation while the next generations will almost be higher than the contemporary one;

so in case it coincides with the present science, it will not agree with the coming corrections.

While God knows the present and the future and He knows more than our limited poor and very little knowledge.

Therefore, the Quran is higher than the present knowledge, and the Quran encourages people to investigate and study,

but will never give any erraneous information, eventhough you see it does not agree with something of the present knowledge of contemporary people.

Yup. The argument from authority, for sure.

Perhaps someone with patience can explain this fallacious argument to him?

 

[darkbeaver]

It is only God that is absolutely correct and absoultely truthful.

I don't think the ratios that you gave are correct.

DB, don't resent :smile:

You are only about 20% correct. (this is ok for you; see the rest of the group)

L Gilb. is under zero correct: -80% correct
Dexter about zero correct. Bar Left follows him on the same scale.
#Juan 20% correct.
Cliffy -90% correct.

While AnnaG, Talloolla, Downhome_ their error is uncountable: -272

And so on:

I do rely on the Quran that is 100% correct and its interpretation 98% correct.
And I hope that I am 90% correct, while I search about my mistakes to correct them according to the Quran and its interpretation. :sign7:

Quran Interpretation

Ours is not to revel in the misfortunes of those in error. However it is true devine charity and abiding love for our fellow man that permits us to suffer their peculiarities patiently, sure in the knowledge that god will find work for them, however humble their abilities may be. He just won't let them touch any of the knobs or buttons.:lol:

 

[eanassir]

Ours is not to revel in the misfortunes of those in error. However it is true devine charity and abiding love for our fellow man that permits us to suffer their peculiarities patiently, sure in the knowledge that god will find work for them, however humble their abilities may be. He just won't let them touch any of the knobs or buttons.:lol:

It is only for joking; or am I a teacher giving degrees for his students?
Or should I be friendly with one that reviles God Almighty?

 

[eanassir]

The interpretation of the Quran aya 65: 12

اللَّهُ الَّذِي خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ وَمِنَ الْأَرْضِ مِثْلَهُنَّ يَتَنَزَّلُ الْأَمْرُ بَيْنَهُنَّ لِتَعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ وَأَنَّ اللَّهَ قَدْ أَحَاطَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عِلْمًا​

The explanation:
(God [is He] Who created seven [ancient ethereal] heavens [in the past], ​

[then He created the earth]​

and the equal [number of gaseous heavens: seven gaseous heavens, He then created, out] of the earth; ​

the am'r [: the angels] come down among them [with the revelation to prophets]; ​

that you should know that God is Most Able over all things,
and that God is Comprehending everything in His knowledge.)​

"The ‘heavens’ here means the ethereal layers; because it is mentioned before mentioning the ‘earth’, and there is no ‘and’ between them.
The Am’r : This word is the name given to each kind of the spiritual creatures, like the angels and the human beings.​

The interpretation of this Quranic revelation:
It is God Who created seven ethereal heavens in the ancient time [each ethereal heaven is the result of a destroyed solar system],
then He created the earth, and from the earth He created seven gaseous heavens;
for God had created the ethereal heavens before did He create the earth by millions of years."​

The ether
​