Omar Khadr- Release him now
- Thread starter JLM
- Start date
Perhaps you have a little to learn about human nature - What a person may totally object to at age 15 he may be perfectly accepting at age 23. I think Omar has potential for good things.
Irrelevant considering he wasn't 18, and brainwashing minors into child soldiers isn't all that uncommon.
As an example, say a father decided to teach his child to help him rob a bank. The kids is 13, 14 or 15 years old and actually helps him rob a bank. Both the father and the son are caught and charged.
Now tell me.... do you think the son is going to be charged the same way for the exact same crimes as the father?
No.... and in the US, it's the same.
Which brings up another interesting issue.... The US is charging him with crimes committed in another country they have no jurisdiction in. As many have said in this thread, it would have been better if they charged him in Afghanistan for crimes committed in Afghanistan.
Besides the fact that He's a Canadian Citizen, not an actual Afghan citizen, what is considered an adult over there is also irrelevant.... in the court and country currently charging him with crimes, he's not an adult but was a minor at the time of the alleged crime.
Ah, so the US wishes to take a chapter out of the British's book, whom didn't consider US soldiers during the revolution "Real" soldiers because they weren't wearing proper uniforms and didn't fight like gentlemen, thus didn't apply POW status to their prisoners?
My how times have changed.
Perhaps the reason why he wasn't in uniform was because perhaps he wasn't fighting?
Also, the Taliban/Al'Q do indeed have a particular dress code for their soldiers/fighters.... just because the US doesn't want to recognize them, doesn't somehow make them not have uniforms.
Why are you asking me? I wasn't there to tell you what he did, nor can I read his mind to know his intentions.... and I can bet you weren't there or able to read his mind either.
In your mind the little sh*t was over there fighting..... but in your mind, it's all based on circumstantial evidence and emotional bias..... plus you already decided he's guilty.
I'm not on the grounds he is guilty or he's innocent.... but based on existing evidence, there's not enough grounds to determine one way or another if he's guilty of the crimes he's charged with, but if he is, then he applies for child soldier status and should be required to go through the proper procedures for such a case.
As I already said, I can't read his mind, therefore I'm not going to speak for what he may or may not accept.
Once again, you already determined he's guilty..... kinda pointless to even discuss this with you.
As opposed to the humiliation, abuse, beatings in Abu Ghraib and unknown amounts of people sent off to unmarked camps and detention centres in places like Syria and elsewhere in the world, never to be seen again, or tortured for months or even years, then set loose to try and pick up the pieces of their lives?
Yeah.... it's all certainly unbalanced and the US sure is the moral compass all should be following :roll:
Regardless, none of that matters when it comes to the topic of Omar, so I personally don't give a crap at this time.
Nope, my previous statement still stands.
Sorry, but there's a lot more to it then just that.... you guys sure like to trivialize and over simplify things when it suits you don't ya?
Did I stay silent? I'm probably one of the few people here who actually saw the first video in its entirety.
By all means, please inform me of my own actions and opinion, since you know me so well and what I think.... I'm sure you must have evidence somewhere to back up such a blatantly baseless claim.
:roll: Yeah, way to compare Regina to Afghanistan... cuz that makes a pile of sense.
First off I don't think he should be executed. I am not into executing prisoners. Locked away for life would not bother me a bit, but I don't care either if they release him to Canada.
I could care less what his supporters believe and I do not expect them to feel guilty or change their mind. We're the big bad wolf and he is the babe in the woods.
Again...this isn't our first go around on this and you know it. The last time we had this argument a few years ago I was the one who said give him a hero's parade in Ottawa. So don't go pretending like you predicted something off the top of your head. I told you years ago we should send him back into your loving arms so you can give him a homecoming parade.
Some of the folks may not remember the old Khadr thread before you took a break from the forum but I do and I remember going over the same stuff then and saying the same things.
Oh please.
What do you mean about a "baseless claim" of a parade? How can me saying that the US should give him back to Canada and all the gutter rats supporters should give him a parade a baseless claim. I would even bet that if he does go back you will see him at a rally at some point to the cheering adulation of supporters.
Nothing ignorant about it. I want him out of our hands and into yours and you can deal with the punk.
And again... don't go saying that your post was just a counter trolling response. That was your emotional attachment to this.
I'm not blaming you for anything.
uh huh
It dosn't look at recognized combatants as terrorists either though that is plainly the work with which they are engaged. The difference between state sponsered terrorism and privately sponsered terrorism is one of scale only.
There is a huge difference between GITMO prisoners losing sleep to Americans getting their heads sawed off on camera.
There is a huge difference between being restrained and blindfolded than being captured by insurgents at a post and being found later bound together and executed.
A big difference.
And? Great stuff huh?
What are we talking about now? How did this quote have anything to do with you? The post was directed to you personally rather than the whole forum.
Edit: The post was not directed to you personally rather than the whole forum.
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Oh look, another one that dismisses reality for the lovely world shrouded by his ideology...:roll:
And you're better? Guess you forgot the misinformed things you said previously in this thread that clearly shows you know even less then I.
Pot meet kettle..... if you have no need, why are you even responding to my comments in the first place?
I have previously proven, with quotes and links from international convention and the Laws regarding Armed Conflict.
You've posted nothing new, just the same old based on Canadian Domestic Law rhetoric. Void of any references of course, just BS.
Unfortunately, it doesn't apply out side Canada. Nice try though.
And yes I am better. I've actually read and been tested on such things as the Queen's Standing Orders, The US Rules of Engagement, The Laws of Armed Conflict.. I've actually read The UN's conventions of child soldiers, the Geneva Conventions, and so on. I don't just debate Omar, I debate Israel to, hence why most of those morons ignore my questions. They haven't read, so can not point to what provisions apply. As you can't either.
:lol:, Yes, they must be misinformed because you said so...:roll:
I suggest you read up on young Khadar's history. It's quite interesting. You obviously have no idea what it is.
Because you're posts smack of the typical rhetoric and uneducated emotion, rather then grounded fact. If you go through my list of posts and threads on this topic, you can find all the quotes and links to international conventions, Laws regarding Armed Conflict, and how they are applied. Including what constitutes a child soldier, and how they shall be treated.
I doubt you will, you have no need of fact, you seem comfy in your delusions. Hence your continued defense of it throughout this thread, without so much as a single accredited reference to one international convention. Which is why I won't waste my energy in even attempting to educate you. There's no point. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. You're a prime example of the truth in that term.
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"There is a huge difference between GITMO prisoners losing sleep to Americans getting their heads sawed off on camera."
Of course there's a huge difference but what has that got to do with Omar's guilt or innocense, which should be determined, not only to probably but also to degree if there is guilt. If he's guilty before he is punished he should have had an opportunity to all his rights (that is what that f*****g Charter is all about) and quite frankly I doubt he's had them.
Of course there's a huge difference but what has that got to do with Omar's guilt or innocense, which should be determined, not only to probably but also to degree if there is guilt. If he's guilty before he is punished he should have had an opportunity to all his rights (that is what that f*****g Charter is all about) and quite frankly I doubt he's had them.
Sorry, JLM, but this guy and his family should all be put on a slow boat to China. I am so sick of hearing about him that whatever is done I just hope it is soon so his name will leave the news. File this under who gives a damn about a murderer
"File this under who gives a damn about a murderer"-
Do we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that that is what he is and how do we know it?
Do we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that that is what he is and how do we know it?
Mowich, I would otherwise agree with you, because I actually do.
But I find it completely out of character for you. You're always fairly well reasoned, even when we disagree, you're grounded and rational...
8O
I know, I know, but truly this guy has managed to get under my skin for some reason and I just wish he would go away. You might say the "blithe" has been taken out of my "spririt" in this matter. :-(
Okay, JLM, you are right. I don't know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a murderer. After all this time, I am beginning to wonder if we will ever know the real truth. I just don't believe that he should be allowed to come back to Canada and I also think his family should be kicked out of the country.
18 is the arbitrary age in the West... Omar is Muslim and considered adult enough by his community, the nation where he was fighting, his family and also by his own opinion. He wants to double-dip between 2 cultures and seek the benefits without the responsibilities.
Let's run with that example, but fill in some blanks that are missing.
- Khadr had a choice relative to an older brother that refused to participate.
- While in Afghanistan (according to the videos) took it upon himself to further his terrorist education (with zeal).
- Khadr had opportunities to back out both while in Canada and possibly while in Afghanistan.
So, in answer to your question "do you think the son is going to be charged the same way for the exact same crimes as the father?", my answer is no - not the same charges; however, the nature of his active, voluntary involvement (in spite of his older brother setting an example) is more than deserving of the most serious charges to be laid.
As he should be.
His citizenship is a moot point as his alleged crime took place in Afghanistan - He should be tried there, by their laws and subject to their penalties... I think that it's probable that he'd be executed.
There is no international law that clearly protects terrorists.
Yeah, he was on vacation.
'Cause they are terrorists. They strive not to be identifiable in order to achieve their mandate... It's not just the US that operates by that ideal... All of the participating nations maintain that identical ideal.
But you have no problem bending-over backwards to suggest he was there but not fighting... He was just holding that AK for someone else, right?
Apparently also in the minds of the Canadian and US governments as well as the remainder of the NATO/UN administrations.
So says Omar and his lawyer... for one that is a stickler for proven facts, you sure don't mind speculating on this.