Vatican/Holy See, State, or not?
- Thread starter CDNBear
- Start date
Like I said, try to convince Italy that it should take an action against the Vatican. roflmao
Meanwhile, the rest of us will have eaten gigatons of popcorn by the time you even convince Italy to take you seriously, let alone convince it of anything else..
The Lateran Treaty would seem to indicate the Holy See is a sovereign nation:
Text of the Lateran Treaty of 1929
On ceasing to be subject to the sovereignty of the Holy See, the persons referred to in the preceding paragraph, who, according to the provisions of Italian law (independently of the de facto circumstances considered above) shall not be regarded as possessing any other citizenship, shall be regarded in Italy as Italian nationals.
Notwithstanding that all such persons are subject to the sovereignty of the Holy See, the provisions of Italian law shall be applicable to them within the territory of the Kingdom of Italy, even in such matters wherein the personal law must be observed (when they are not covered by the regulations emanating from the Holy See) and, in the case of persons of foreign nationality, the legal provisions of the State to which they belong.
Text of the Lateran Treaty of 1929
Article 2
Italy recognizes the sovereignty of the Holy See in international matters as an inherent attribute in conformity with its traditions and the requirements of its mission to the world.Article 3
Italy recognizes the full ownership, exclusive dominion, and sovereign authority and jurisdiction of the Holy See over the Vatican as at present constituted, together with all its appurtenances and endowments, thus creating the Vatican City, for the special purposes and under the conditions hereinafter referred to.Article 9
In accordance with the provisions of International Law, all persons having a permanent residence within the Vatican City shall be subject to the sovereignty of the Holy See. Such residence shall not be forfeited by reason of the mere fact of temporary residence elsewhere, unaccompanied by the loss of habitation in the said City or other circumstances proving that such residence has been abandoned.On ceasing to be subject to the sovereignty of the Holy See, the persons referred to in the preceding paragraph, who, according to the provisions of Italian law (independently of the de facto circumstances considered above) shall not be regarded as possessing any other citizenship, shall be regarded in Italy as Italian nationals.
Notwithstanding that all such persons are subject to the sovereignty of the Holy See, the provisions of Italian law shall be applicable to them within the territory of the Kingdom of Italy, even in such matters wherein the personal law must be observed (when they are not covered by the regulations emanating from the Holy See) and, in the case of persons of foreign nationality, the legal provisions of the State to which they belong.
Yup. I bet DTM would get one sentence out and Italy would be rolling on the floor howling in laughter.
The problem is Durka, Mussolini never held the power to ordain the Holy See as a sovereign State. He could give the Holy See sovereignty over the Vatican territory and make the Vatican a State within Italy. But only the International community could recognize the Holy See as a State on to itself. As they did.
Now that can be interpreted in a few ways.
At this time, I will keep my mouth shut and just observe as I have already seen enough BS in here to turn this into a locked thread.
I apologise to Karrie for leaving her on her own, but it would probably best for the Mods and Bears OP if I just observed at this time.,
I understand your frustration Gh. Hence my ginger attempt at discussion and keep it as such. I actually implore to join in and merely ignore the possible bait that may be tossed out.
Well... would you maybe be willing to talk to ME about it gerry? I don't expect for even one moment that our views on the issue are the same. It seems a lot of Catholics are nowhere near as angry as I am at the Pope, and so I've been curious to hear some of your views on the issue.
Canada is actually a country. Your other links parrot the 'holy see' propaganda but who is our ambassador to 'The Vatican City State Thingy"? What is the address of our consulate there?
You're right. This is actually revealing facts and allowing differing opinions to be aired, if a little crazy, mine included. Time to lock 'er up.
Canadian Consulate to the Vatican
Address:
Via della Conciliazione 4-D,
00193 Rome, Italy
Telephone: +39-06-6830-7316
Fax: +39-06-6880-6283
E-Mail: vatcn@dfait-maeci.gc.ca
Canadian Embassy in the Vatican – Holy See - Canuck Abroad
You'll like this one...
Embassy of Canada to the Holy See
Yeah, there seems to be a wide variety of Catholics. I won't even broach the subject with my Mum. I'm too chicken. lol
BTW, I have no idea why you'd need help in posting and backing up your views. I think you are quite capable.
Well, then show me opposing links. Don't just say my links are no good.
Addresses:
Via della Conciliazione 4-D,
00193 Rome, Italy
vatcn@dfait-maeci.gc.ca
Vatican City is currently one of the few countries that has not become a member of the United Nations; the Holy See is a permanent observer state. Neutral.
The government of Vatican City has a unique structure. The Pope is the sovereign of the state.
Sorry folks there is nothing you can do, your opinions of what constitutes a state mean nothing. The world recognizes it as a state. So there. :smile:
The government of Vatican City has a unique structure. The Pope is the sovereign of the state.
Sorry folks there is nothing you can do, your opinions of what constitutes a state mean nothing. The world recognizes it as a state. So there. :smile:
And it seems there's an awful lot of countries that agree:
Embassies Of The Vatican (Holy See)- Consulates Of The Vatican (Holy See)
Gee thanx ironsides. :-|
It fails on 8. Another State oversees it it. The Holy See...if we accept the Holy See as a State, can't have your cake and eat it too.
Yeah, there seems to be a wide variety of Catholics. I won't even broach the subject with my Mum. I'm too chicken. lol
BTW, I have no idea why you'd need help in posting and backing up your views. I think you are quite capable.
Help, no, but company can be nice, especially when a thread goes so far as to even have people suggesting you should be stripped of Charter freedoms.
Isn't that the stereotype, all Italians are Catholics, all Irish are Catholic too and like to fight. And all Russians were communists. And all communist nations were the same. Gotta love that mass Canadian thinking-or lack of it.
They were discussing recently taking crucifixes out of schools in Italy. That's a very Catholic thing to do isn't it.