Aaaaahh, I saw a link button 2/3 down the page called "CIA" after where it said "source". Yup. Funny.
Vatican/Holy See, State, or not?
- Thread starter CDNBear
- Start date
Shut it down. It is not a country. Make it part of Italy and make it a museum. Or sell the land and turn it into condos.
Actually they do kind of disappear. It takes a pretty concerted effort for the gov't to locate these people and charge them with sexual predation offences.
:roll: It's a sovereign state inside another sovereign state. You first have to invade Italy or at least convince Italy that it should invade the Vatican. You go right ahead and see if you can start a war with Italy or start one between Italy and the Vatican.
Who's got the popcorn? Anyone see it?
That's true. But validation decreases. If someone says, "We should bomb this country because I feel God/Allah/Whoever says we should," there's more of a chance people will do it than if they say, "Let's bomb this country because I feel like it." And once we stop fighting as nations, we can crack down on domestic problems like predators and child abusers and the such. We can't solve everything at once, but we can one at a time.
the government can get them before it happens? I'm not saying the church is innocent of shuffling the pricks (I've been pretty vocal about it), but the statement made was that there'd be NO child abuse by the RC. Which is true I suppose, if there's no RC, they can't abuse... it'll just leave it to whatever else those men join I guess. lol.
That's not an issue of taking something away (religion), that's an issue of adding something. Education. Western nations don't fight wars over religion. Education makes a huge difference. I don't get why positive measures are so hard for people to make the mental leap to, and instead it's the negative measures, stripping people of things, that their minds jump so readily to. It doesn't solve anything, it just shifts the problem.
And if you think about their reasons, I mean these priests swear to be chaste. Well that's against human nature, it's against nature as a whole. So they get urges and prey on children. If there was no RCC then there'd be less molestation. I'm not saying religion is the cause for all evil in the world and ending it will make everyone good people. I'm not an idiot, just a realist. There are more religious wars and faith killings than people want to acknowlage. And not just recently either. Theists have been waging war on eachother for as long as there's been different religions. I'm pushing for globalization (no independent nations) a united earth. I know it sounds like hippy stuff, but that should be our goal. That solves the problem of whether the Vatican or Holy See is a state or not. It also will allow us to advance in a ton of areas! Science will boom, we can crack down on social crimes, and we can end the suffering of women and minorities.
So, being hard up for sex makes people turn to kids? lol. No... sorry. Pedophiles aren't just men who aren't getting any from grown ups. A normal person who can't deal with celibacy breaks their vow with adults. That's why rates of child abuse are the same in the population as a whole, as they are in the church. It's a human issue, not just a church one.
I think we've gone a little off track, and I say this with respect...
There are literally dozens of thread devoted to the big chaste vs pedophilia debate. Please by all means have at it, in the right venue. There is no need to turn every thread on religion into the sh!tfest it oft becomes when this particular aspect of Christianity pops up.
Again, I mean no disrespect, just a polite request. Please.
There are literally dozens of thread devoted to the big chaste vs pedophilia debate. Please by all means have at it, in the right venue. There is no need to turn every thread on religion into the sh!tfest it oft becomes when this particular aspect of Christianity pops up.
Again, I mean no disrespect, just a polite request. Please.
Nooooo lol I think we are misunderstanding each other.
Yeah, I got that part. All that would result from eliminating religions would be that people would switch the label on whatever venue they have for doing nasties. A pedophile priest would become a pedophilic plumber, mailman, short-order cook, etc.
lol Why is it then,m that that massive majority of priests can avoid the act?
Eliminating politics would likely do more than eliminating religions. People would still just change their venues and reasons for doing uglies on each other.
I'm not entirely sure. These priests don't want to lose their status as priest by being uncelibate. They turn to children because they believe children are less likely to expose them. An adult would either say, no way you're a priest, and report them or just tell their friends who may in turn report the priest. Or they'd have sex with the priest and we have mass corruption like the issue in Africa. People want to freak out over a few children getting touched in the west, but turn a blind eye to the nuns getting raped by not only priests but the congrigation. The common superstition is if you have a disease, especially an STD, sleeping with a nun will cure you. Can you tell me how that is not church related? I'm not blaming public molestation and rape on the Church, just those inflicted by the holders of Church positions.
Will do. Sorry for the trouble I cause. I'm just tired of crap like this happening. When are we going to realize, Hey, maybe we're better off without. But you request is noted, I'll leave the subject alone.;-)
No need to be sorry Karrie, I understand the passion people have for the issue. Hence my attempting to try and keep this thread on track. Becuase I really want to get down to what I highlight in the OP.
I'm not looking for a pound of flesh, the Pope is innocent until proven guilty and so are anyone of the Priests named that have not stood trial.
A consensus from the whole encompassed collective congregation would make me tingle. The posts I saw you make the other day, and I actually hate myself for saying this openly, upset me. You didn't hurt my feelings, but having a deep duality, I know the signs of questioning ones core. I saw you on the edge of it, and it distressed me. You have always been a source of calm and peace for me, when I was at my limits on some issues. You and Zan both, which is why you both get a greater amount of respect from me more then some.
Anyways I've gushed enough.
Very nicely said Siryphas. But don't think that I mean, or Karrie means for you to remain silent. That was not our intent.
I welcome you views, I may not agree, but you make them in a far more productive manner then most.
If you want I can post a link to thread on these boards where the discussion on that is already underway.
Invade? That would be a big waste of money. Just cut off services that they recieve from Italy. I'm sure they get tons of freebies. But it would be a better tourist attraction afterwards.
The first source, the Holy See, lol.
Agreed.
I see more fundamental confusion about the two distinct entities. The rest is just more RC bashing, with some legitimate concerns.