Why Both Immigration AND Big Stimulus Spending?

[AnnaG]

I would think that increasing employment would be the way to counter recessions. So far, I haven't seen stimulus packages do much of that, though.

 

[petros]

I think more like we are all aliens.

You are absolutely right. We were all foreign but were lied to about being sovereign so you are right it only leaves us as aliens.

 

[petros]

I would think that increasing employment would be the way to counter recessions. So far, I haven't seen stimulus packages do much of that, though.

Were you given more money to spend?

 

[Johnnny]

The immigrants getting the jobs the native citizens of this country dont want will help balance out our economy, but not by alot or by too much.... Thats the way things are

 

[AnnaG]

Were you given more money to spend?

Nope. I took a drop in income since my shop died because of lack of business.

 

[petros]

Nope. I took a drop in income since my shop died because of lack of business.

So why were the ones who collect money given the taxpayers' stimlus funds while the taxpayer whose money is the stimulus were given nothing?

Can anyone honestly support a political party without feeling like a stooge?

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

I am not sure that the stimulus package and jobs are related. The original Bush stimulus package (which Republicans enthusiastically supported, but they opposed Obama stimulus package out of partisan politics) was more designed to avoid financial disaster, to avoid falling into a depression.

After Lehman Brothers went belly up, we were looking into an abyss. The credit market has frozen completely, nobody was lending to anybody. Luckily it was weekend, so the situation was not dire, yet. If the situation had continued, we may have had a full fledged depression in a couple of weeks. Nothing moves without credit, the whole economy would have come to a standstill.

Canada’s stimulus money was really for the same purpose. Now, stimulus would be expected to create new jobs and save existing jobs (it would provide money for the teachers, the police etc., who would have to be laid off if the government has no money). To that extent, one could say it was jobs oriented. But the real purpose of the stimulus package was to get the credit flowing once again, to avoid a depression.

SJP, you're talking mostly the US when you bring up Lehman Bros. Our banks are better managed, they can't enter risky businesses like derivatives, so they not on the wild side of "banking." It is in the US that people are taking any job available, not in the Great White North.

To say the stimulus package and immigration are not related is simply not so. Although that is the perception in the media. Most people who work in the media and politics have little direct contact with immigrants. How many people from China or Egypt apply for jobs at The Globe and Mail/Vancouver Sun/CTV/CBC/Liberal party/NDP for example. Near zero. I get the feeling that the media lives in another world on this topic.

 

[AnnaG]

So why were the ones who collect money given the taxpayers' stimlus funds while the taxpayer whose money is the stimulus were given nothing?

Displaced loyalty? Misplaced loyalty? Stupidity? Bad sense of priority?

Can anyone honestly support a political party without feeling like a stooge?

No-one rational and/or honorable, IMO.

 

[AnnaG]

SJP, you're talking mostly the US when you bring up Lehman Bros. Our banks are better managed, they can't enter risky businesses like derivatives, so they not on the wild side of "banking." It is in the US that people are taking any job available, not in the Great White North.

You'll have to excuse Sir Porker, in his mind anything Canadian is only relative to the USA.

To say the stimulus package and immigration are not related is simply not so. Although that is the perception in the media. Most people who work in the media and politics have little direct contact with immigrants. How many people from China or Egypt apply for jobs at The Globe and Mail/Vancouver Sun/CTV/CBC/Liberal party/NDP for example. Near zero. I get the feeling that the media lives in another world on this topic.

lol Only on this topic?

 

[EagleSmack]

SJP, you're talking mostly the US when you bring up Lehman Bros.

He always talks about the USA. He's one of our Groupies.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

I would think that increasing employment would be the way to counter recessions. So far, I haven't seen stimulus packages do much of that, though.

It is the way Keynesian economics does work, you spend and create deficits when times are bad, and when good times return, you build up surpluses and pay off the debt. We have a mountain of debt already, and now we are building up new debt. I don't think we can handle another major recession any time soon.

The little people don't see much stimulus money, it all goes to major infrastructure projects built by corporations. And it is tough to find examples on the web.

The key point here though is that massive immigration levels are not part of Keynesian economics, which assume high unemployment and slack business demand. We had neither in Canada in the last year or so. We had a very mild recession, unlike the US where on CNN it is called the Great Recession, and ongoing. Cheered to report job losses are coming at a slower rate and they expect a recover by 2014 or so.

 

[petros]

Quoting petros So why were the ones who collect money given the taxpayers' stimlus funds while the taxpayer whose money is the stimulus were given nothing?
​

Displaced loyalty? Misplaced loyalty? Stupidity? Bad sense of priority?

Quote: Can anyone honestly support a political party without feeling like a stooge?
​

No-one rational and/or honorable, IMO.

Somebody best tell the rest of the people out there that if they keep this up they are doomed.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Quoting petros So why were the ones who collect money given the taxpayers' stimlus funds while the taxpayer whose money is the stimulus were given nothing?​

Quote: Can anyone honestly support a political party without feeling like a stooge?​

Somebody best tell the rest of the people out there that if they keep this up they are doomed.

Out stimulus spending on EI for example is keeping people from taking jobs they ought to take in a recession. So taxpayers aren't necessarily getting good value for their money. Stimulus spending is supposed to create needed new jobs where none exist elsewhere. It seems like an entitlement program.

 

[AnnaG]

It is the way Keynesian economics does work, you spend and create deficits when times are bad, and when good times return, you build up surpluses and pay off the debt. We have a mountain of debt already, and now we are building up new debt. I don't think we can handle another major recession any time soon.

The little people don't see much stimulus money, it all goes to major infrastructure projects built by corporations. And it is tough to find examples on the web.

The key point here though is that massive immigration levels are not part of Keynesian economics, which assume high unemployment and slack business demand. We had neither in Canada in the last year or so. We had a very mild recession, unlike the US where on CNN it is called the Great Recession, and ongoing. Cheered to report job losses are coming at a slower rate and they expect a recover by 2014 or so.

I guess. But wouldn't it be better if we just got rid of the causes of recession and depressions rather than continuing to recycle the same old stupid cycles?

“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it” George Santayana

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

I guess. But wouldn't it be better if we just got rid of the causes of recession and depressions rather than continuing to recycle the same old stupid cycles?

“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it” George Santayana

But booms and busts are part of the current capitalist system. In the old days we had famines and thousands died. This is better, not perfect though.

 

[AnnaG]

But booms and busts are part of the current capitalist system. In the old days we had famines and thousands died. This is better, not perfect though.

“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it” George Santayana

 

[petros]

Out stimulus spending on EI for example is keeping people from taking jobs they ought to take in a recession. So taxpayers aren't necessarily getting good value for their money. Stimulus spending is supposed to create needed new jobs where none exist elsewhere. It seems like an entitlement program.

How about we pay our ****ing bills and reopen the bank of Canada so Canadians can invest in Canadian job creation instead of banks owned by Queens and oil barons? Sound like a good plan?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

SJP, you're talking mostly the US when you bring up Lehman Bros. Our banks are better managed, they can't enter risky businesses like derivatives, so they not on the wild side of "banking." It is in the US that people are taking any job available, not in the Great White North.

To say the stimulus package and immigration are not related is simply not so. Although that is the perception in the media. Most people who work in the media and politics have little direct contact with immigrants. How many people from China or Egypt apply for jobs at The Globe and Mail/Vancouver Sun/CTV/CBC/Liberal party/NDP for example. Near zero. I get the feeling that the media lives in another world on this topic.

Oh, I quite agree, Canadian banks are well managed and did not need any bailout. However, my understanding is that the credit freeze did not occur only in USA. It was spreading to other counties as well.

The credit freeze was irrational, fear based anyway. Sure Lehman Brothers went bankrupt and that was a big organization. But that doesn’t mean that other banks are also going to go belly up, it was pure nonsense. However, financial markets rarely work on logic, they work on emotion, on fear.

That is why though as you point out, there was no reason for the credit freeze in Canada; credit crunch was spreading to Canada as well. Indeed, there was a danger that it may spread worldwide. That is one of the reasons why governments all over the world (even China, surely they had n reason to fear unemployment) stimulated the economy.

If there had been no credit squeeze, we would have had a run of the mill recession (as we did before Lehman Brothers debacle). There would have been no need or a stimulus package or a much smaller package would have been adequate.

So I don’t understand how immigration and stimulus package would be related. Are you saying that if government had declared a freeze on immigration, then stimulus package would not have been necessary?

 

[petros]

Oh, I quite agree, Canadian banks are well managed and did not need any bailout.

Why the hell would they need a bail out when they lend money to the Govt of Canada that is created out of thin air?

They have you bent over AND have YOU giving not getting the reach around.

Why the **** would they want or even need anything else from us?

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Oh, I quite agree, Canadian banks are well managed and did not need any bailout. However, my understanding is that the credit freeze did not occur only in USA. It was spreading to other counties as well.

The credit freeze was irrational, fear based anyway. Sure Lehman Brothers went bankrupt and that was a big organization. But that doesn’t mean that other banks are also going to go belly up, it was pure nonsense. However, financial markets rarely work on logic, they work on emotion, on fear.

That is why though as you point out, there was no reason for the credit freeze in Canada; credit crunch was spreading to Canada as well. Indeed, there was a danger that it may spread worldwide. That is one of the reasons why governments all over the world (even China, surely they had n reason to fear unemployment) stimulated the economy.

If there had been no credit squeeze, we would have had a run of the mill recession (as we did before Lehman Brothers debacle). There would have been no need or a stimulus package or a much smaller package would have been adequate.

So I don’t understand how immigration and stimulus package would be related. Are you saying that if government had declared a freeze on immigration, then stimulus package would not have been necessary?

Even before the recession, our high immigration levels were high.

Fact: We have jobs. But jobs Canadians do not want. This is a sign immigration needs to be reduced.

But many immigrants work in ghettos. Go to a Chinese restaurant and they only hire Chinese speaking employees. Non-Chinese don't get hired here and the media doesn't care because they really like Chinese food and the ambience. Not just armies, but the media appear to march, or talk, on their stomach.

Some stimulus, but I think it was too much because we have jobs in Canada going begging. So how much stimulus is needed? Not just markets run on blind fear. How much debt can we accumulate?