Liberal phobia and the cause….

[SirJosephPorter]

In Canada, conservative generally means fiscal conservative. Most of us agree that religious pursuit has a place but not in parliament.

Depends upon what one means by conservative, Kreskin. To me, ‘fiscally conservative’ means what conservatives have been doing fiscally, it means borrow and spend. Fiscally conservative means supporting huge debt and deficits (that is what conservatives have been doing fiscally, for a long time now).

I am for balanced budget and I would support spending cuts and tax increases to do it. I consider myself a fiscal centrist, not a fiscal conservative.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

It doesn't matter what party it is, a majority government can cut spending and a minority can't.

Quite so, a majority government can take unpleasant but necessary measures to tackle the economy, like Liberals did. When they enacted budget balancing measures, they made a lot of people mad at them.

Same here in Ontario. When Liberals came to power, McGuinty realized that Conservatives had lied through their teeth during the election campaign, and the real budget deficit was 6 billion and not 2 billon as they claimed. McGuinty promptly raised taxes in order to balance the budget. Everybody squawked, (conservatives screaming louder than anybody else) but government was able to put through tax increase because they had a majority.

As it happened, the tax increase brought in enough revenue to balance the budget.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

No doubt, but in spite of this he was voted Canada's greatest PM.

Was there ever any doubt Bar (that he is the greatest PM ever)?

 

[JLM]

"The fact that you can't wrap your head around that says volumes about your objectivity,

Or lack thereof.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

That actually means very little, depending on who was doing the voting. The man was P.M. for 16 years, which is a good part of a life time of many of those of voting age today and probably only one of about 3 P.M.s a lot of people are familiar with and Mulroney sure as hell ain't going to get too many votes, Chretien couldn't speak English. How many of the voters gave serious thought to Robert Borden or Wilfrid Laurier? So this business about Trudeau being greatest P.M. is just a bunch of smoke and mirrors. If in fact he was the greatest P.M. he was also one of the greatest A$$holes.

The achievements of Borden or of anybody else pale in comparison with those of Trudeau. Trudeau repatriated the Constitution from Britain and he gave us the Charter.

Before Trudeau, what we had was dictatorship of the Parliament, dictatorship of the majority, something like Singapore has today (except we used to change the parties in power, in Singapore, the same party is perpetually in power).

The minorities did not have any recourse against the tyranny of the majority. Once we got the Charter, a rogue PM cannot take rights away form the minorities by a 50%+1 vote in the Parliament.

Yes, Trudeau was indeed voted the best, and it was well deserved. It will be a long time indeed before a better PM comes along.

 

[JLM]

The achievements of Borden or of anybody else pale in comparison with those of Trudeau. Trudeau repatriated the Constitution from Britain and he gave us the Charter.

Before Trudeau, what we had was dictatorship of the Parliament, dictatorship of the majority, something like Singapore has today (except we used to change the parties in power, in Singapore, the same party is perpetually in power).

The minorities did not have any recourse against the tyranny of the majority. Once we got the Charter, a rogue PM cannot take rights away form the minorities by a 50%+1 vote in the Parliament.

Yes, Trudeau was indeed voted the best, and it was well deserved. It will be a long time indeed before a better PM comes along.

\
Actually I'm not sure that all Canadians care about what Trudeau did. I saw a poll that put W.L. MacKenzie King at the top and Trudeau was rated about 7th or 8th. While some care about Trudeau's Charter, others in Canada are more concerned about the right to three square meals a day or the right to a steady job. :smile:

 

[lone wolf]

And Porter is an athiest? Bull! Liberal Church ... even if he isn't very liberal....

 

[SirJosephPorter]

\
Actually I'm not sure that all Canadians care about what Trudeau did. I saw a poll that put W.L. MacKenzie King at the top and Trudeau was rated about 7th or 8th. While some care about Trudeau's Charter, others in Canada are more concerned about the right to three square meals a day or the right to a steady job. :smile:

Three square meals a day or steady jobs are transitory things. 50 or 100 years from now nobody will remember how economy performed under Trudeau or Mulroney.

However, people will remember that Trudeau gave us the Charter; he will be remembered as long as Canada exists. 50 or 100 years from now, nobody will remember Mulroney or Chrétien (interestingly, they may remember Martin, as the PM who passed the law legalizing gay marriage).

 

[SirJosephPorter]

\
Actually I'm not sure that all Canadians care about what Trudeau did. I saw a poll that put W.L. MacKenzie King at the top and Trudeau was rated about 7th or 8th. While some care about Trudeau's Charter, others in Canada are more concerned about the right to three square meals a day or the right to a steady job. :smile:

Surely Canadians don’t care about three square meals a day or steady job? During Liberal rule of 13 years, there was economic prosperity; people had steady jobs, three square meals a day. But surely Chrétien and Martin were the worst PMs ever (at least according to conservatives)?

I think what you mean is that people care about three square meals a day and a steady job when a conservative PM brings in these things. When a Liberal PM brings in these things, surely they mean nothing?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

"As I said before, you keep claiming that you are not a conservative, but I have my doubts."- Who in the hell are you to be deciding what other people's political affiliations are?

Who am I? I am a citizen of Canada, and entitled to the right of free speech fully as much as you. I have the perfect right to decide who is a conservative, who is a liberal and express my opinion.

And I have never decided your political affiliation; I have never said that you are a card carrying member of the Conservative Party. How would I know something like that?

However, all the views that you have expressed so far are conservative views. Privatizing the health care, bringing back the death penalty, a doctrinaire support of tax cuts (regardless of what it does to the deficit), opposition to the minimum wage for the poor etc.

From all these views, I peg you as a conservative (but not a Conservative, I have never claimed that you are a card carrying member of the Conservative Party) and I am not afraid to say so. If you don’t like that well, too bad.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I wasn't aware that anyone in Ontario looked past their navel. But you are right about the inequities in representation. For far too many elections we have seen the government decided before we have even finished voting.
Did it ever occur to you that the reason much of the west votes con is that they have been screwed far too many times by far too many lib governments? Just consider this like having a mistress. We are still going to get screwed by the federal government but it will be a change.

At least on the Election Day, there is no need to look to the west. By the time Ontario results are out, we know which party is gong to form the government, and whether it will be a minority or a majority government.

In Canada, Ontario decides which party will form the government, and Quebec decides whether it will be a minority or a majority government. It is a given that the West will vote overwhelmingly Conservative in just about every election, with a smattering of Liberal and NDP seats (and in Alberta, not even that).

 

[AnnaG]

Easy with the self serving spin, Canada doesn’t have a media that counts in the millions, the millions on the streets mourning the Greatest Canadian son and INTELLECTUAL PRIME MINISTER, were people who loved Trudeau as well people who hated him AND LOVED HIM AT THE SAME TIME.

roflmao Self-serving? What do I gain by showing that not everyone thinks the guy was all that great? That's just hilarious.
BTW, he was a PM, of course Canadians mourned the guy. Especially when most people are sheeple and the newsmedia can tell them what is what and who is who. roflmao

That’s rare to find in a politician,

Baloney. A leader dies and lots of people make a fuss. Big deal. Lookit Kennedy and the big deal around him, for instance. The guy was a complete jerk for screwing around on his wife, but a lot of people sure fussed over him after he died.

One thing for sure there is no political record of either Molruneymenia or Harpermenia that I can recollect, But Trudeaumenia yes it was and it was big and great then as it is now.

Because of the media, exactly.
Deify the guy if you like, but you'll never convince me that he was as great as the media cracked him up to be. Deeds impress me, not fanfare.
It looks to me like you're still in love with the guy's charisma. That's sad.

 

[AnnaG]

I can't back track to see who made that claim, or about whom the claim was made, but I'm going to guess you're the person the claim was made against.

And to be honest, I don't see you as a Conservative. You may be conservative in your style, but you seem more center then anything else.

IMHO.

Yeah. Funny, isn't it?
I seem to remember a thread where a bunch of us did one of those political mapping surveys and people that the **** declared to be right-wing, religious wingnuts were left of him on the map. He turned out to be slightly left of center. roflmao

 

[AnnaG]

Agreed.

You see, some people are so blinded by ideology, that they can't even see straight. It makes it so much easier for them to pigeon hole dissenters, so they can personally dismiss their opinion, without having to actually put any effort into a valid rebuttal.

I think it's a combination of laziness, lack of intellect and blind ideology actually. They either haven't the will, or skill to dig up facts, or investigate things, or they are so afraid that they may be wrong, that they simply refuse to look outside their small little world.

I actually feel sorry for them, even though they oft make me laugh out loud.

Tiny minds live in tiny worlds.

 

[CDNBear]

Yeah. Funny, isn't it?
I seem to remember a thread where a bunch of us did one of those political mapping surveys and people that the goof declared to be right-wing, religious wingnuts were left of him on the map. He turned out to be slightly left of center. roflmao

Ya, including myself, I remember beine way left of his royal hiny.

 

[AnnaG]

Depends upon what one means by conservative, Kreskin. To me, ‘fiscally conservative’ means what conservatives have been doing fiscally, it means borrow and spend. Fiscally conservative means supporting huge debt and deficits (that is what conservatives have been doing fiscally, for a long time now).

I am for balanced budget and I would support spending cuts and tax increases to do it. I consider myself a fiscal centrist, not a fiscal conservative.

The problem with this is that you make up your own definitions of words that contradict the real definitions.
Here, I'll help you out:

Main Entry: 1con·ser·va·tive
Pronunciation: \kən-ˈsər-və-tiv\
Function: adjective
Date: 14th century
1 : preservative
2 a : of or relating to a philosophy of conservatism b capitalized : of or constituting a political party professing the principles of conservatism: as (1) : of or constituting a party of the United Kingdom advocating support of established institutions (2) : progressive conservative
3 a : tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions : traditional b : marked by moderation or caution <a conservative estimate> c : marked by or relating to traditional norms of taste, elegance, style, or manners
4 : of, relating to, or practicing Conservative Judaism

from M-W


You are mixing 2b with 3b. If the Conse4rvatives are doing what you say they are doing, then they aren't being conservative. Do you understand yet?

Being fiscally conservative means: Fiscal conservatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So your idea of conservatism is screwy because you cannot differentiate between the people labeled "Conservative" and the political philosophy called conservatism.

 

[AnnaG]

Quite so, a majority government can take unpleasant but necessary measures to tackle the economy, like Liberals did. When they enacted budget balancing measures, they made a lot of people mad at them.

Same here in Ontario. When Liberals came to power, McGuinty realized that Conservatives had lied through their teeth during the election campaign, and the real budget deficit was 6 billion and not 2 billon as they claimed. McGuinty promptly raised taxes in order to balance the budget. Everybody squawked, (conservatives screaming louder than anybody else) but government was able to put through tax increase because they had a majority.

As it happened, the tax increase brought in enough revenue to balance the budget.

So the crooks are sometimes more conservative than the Conservatives. Big deal. One of your gods, Turdeau managed to add billions to the national debt. One of your other gods, Martin, almost killed healthcare, dumped seniors programs, enabled a staggering student debt load just so they could brag about having a balanced budget. That shows little concern for the people of Canada and a lot of concern for the Liberal facade.
It's laughable.

 

[AnnaG]

The achievements of Borden or of anybody else pale in comparison with those of Trudeau. Trudeau repatriated the Constitution from Britain and he gave us the Charter.

Which caused no end of grief. But it was 1 good thing on the balance. Notice, it is ONE good thing.

Before Trudeau, what we had was dictatorship of the Parliament, dictatorship of the majority, something like Singapore has today (except we used to change the parties in power, in Singapore, the same party is perpetually in power).

The minorities did not have any recourse against the tyranny of the majority. Once we got the Charter, a rogue PM cannot take rights away form the minorities by a 50%+1 vote in the Parliament.

And once Turdeau got in we had a plutarchy and we've had nothing but since. So what?

Yes, Trudeau was indeed voted the best, and it was well deserved. It will be a long time indeed before a better PM comes along.

Voted the best by the media and by the sheeple, while the experts don't have such a high opinion about him. That says a lot. lmao

 

[AnnaG]

Three square meals a day or steady jobs are transitory things. 50 or 100 years from now nobody will remember how economy performed under Trudeau or Mulroney.

However, people will remember that Trudeau gave us the Charter; he will be remembered as long as Canada exists. 50 or 100 years from now, nobody will remember Mulroney or Chrétien (interestingly, they may remember Martin, as the PM who passed the law legalizing gay marriage).

I doubt it. Most of us will be dead 500 to 100 years from now and won't remember dick. People will learn that Turdeau brought the Charter and stuff but it'll be much like folks now "remembering" the BNA and Magna Carta .... just history book filler. Who wrote the Magna Carta and the BNA Act? Does anyone remember? roflmao
"Whatta maroon" - B Bunny

 

[JLM]

I doubt it. Most of us will be dead 500 to 100 years from now and won't remember dick. People will learn that Turdeau brought the Charter and stuff but it'll be much like folks now "remembering" the BNA and Magna Carta .... just history book filler. Who wrote the Magna Carta and the BNA Act? Does anyone remember? roflmao
"Whatta maroon" - B Bunny

I guess King John wrote the Magna Carta. :lol::lol::lol: BAck on topic, Anna I honestly don't think 80-90% of Canadians today give any conscious thought to the Charter and even less connect it with Trudeau- it's just not sh*t we think about in our day to day affairs. Until his Lordship started expounded on it, it never entered my mind much less in connection with Trudeau. When I think of Trudeau, I think of three things, Debt, "Fuddle Duddle" and the Finger.
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