Death knell for AGW

[Tonington]

I know it will take a few years to tell if a mini ice age is happening again. This cold does make one think though, hard to prove global warming while a good part of the world is freezing.

So, why should someone have to prove global warming exists every time there is a lull or cold snap, but for a mini-ice age we get to wait for more data?

 

[AnnaG]

Well the Climate Change movement has been hijacked then. Because it is clearly apparent that it is being used as a tool for wealth distribution. To take from western nations to give to so called underdeveloped nations. Also leaving the Basic Nations as they are so called which are really developed nations whom the Climate Change folks know are lost causes when it comes to forcing them to bend to their will. That is why the US stood up to Kyoto and why Copenhagen was a big waste of resources (causing a massive carbon footprint) and time.

Pretty much. Capitalism got its greedy little mitts on a new idea and is running with it. What happens is that whatever people think, we are messing up the planet and all that is happening is that these gimmicks that interested parties develop have more to do with making money than having to do with being responsible. It is a large joke and those of us who are genuinely interested in our planet are labelled as extremist freaks in conjunction with the alarmists. So we get people like Walter, Ironsides, and others digging their heels in and saying there's nothing wrong and we should keep up the status quo. Well, they are wrong. We do mess up the planet and it will cost us heavily sooner or later. It costs the planet, too but it will recover, I think, but not after we've managed to put ourselves in deep water. I'd like us to do stuff sooner.

 

[AnnaG]

As the theory goes, lower magnetic activity of the sun lets more GCR’s into our solar system, which produce microscopic cloud seed trails (like in a Wilson cloud chamber) in our atmosphere, resulting in more cloud cover, resulting in a cooler planet.

HT Watts Up With That?

A watt = voltage x amperage. 1 W = ! V x ! A.

Besides the difference between "watt" and "what", this is a hypothesis, not a theory. Theories use facts, hypotheses are just guesses.

 

[AnnaG]

I know it will take a few years to tell if a mini ice age is happening again. This cold does make one think though, hard to prove global warming while a good part of the world is freezing.

Generally from the northern temperate zone to the north pole is freezing. the tropics are warmer and the southern hemisphere is hot. Climate change is based on average mean temperatures of the entire planet (among other variables), not just one hemisphere. So it may be one frigid winter in the Yukon or somewhere, but it may be an exceptionally hot summer in Argentina at the same time.

 

[AnnaG]

So, why should someone have to prove global warming exists every time there is a lull or cold snap, but for a mini-ice age we get to wait for more data?

Because there are too many people spouting off about their opinion before they understand the circumstances and they don't accept new info and data especially if it contradicts their unshakeable opinion. Hence the application of descriptive terms like "flat-earthers" and others. lol

 

[ironsides]

A new report on climate over the world’s southernmost continent shows that temperatures during the late 20th century did not climb as had been predicted by many global climate models.

Contrary to media reports Antarctic sea ice continues to expand. Ice totals for November 2009 are significantly higher than 1979 when measurements began. The main stream media concentrates on a couple of small areas of the Antarctic in order to scare you in to believing that Antarctica is melting, when in fact its gaining ice.

Global Warming Hoax: News / Comments / Antarctic Sea Ice for November 2009 Higher Than 1979

 

[Tonington]

A new report on climate over the world’s southernmost continent shows that temperatures during the late 20th century did not climb as had been predicted by many global climate models.

Contrary to media reports Antarctic sea ice continues to expand. Ice totals for November 2009 are significantly higher than 1979 when measurements began. The main stream media concentrates on a couple of small areas of the Antarctic in order to scare you in to believing that Antarctica is melting, when in fact its gaining ice.

Global Warming Hoax: News / Comments / Antarctic Sea Ice for November 2009 Higher Than 1979

Nobody said Antarctic sea ice is retreating. They said Antarctic ice sheets are decreasing in volume/mass. That's a huge difference. One is grounded, the other is floating. But they know most people don't know the difference.

 

[AnnaG]

Nobody said Antarctic sea ice is retreating. They said Antarctic ice sheets are decreasing in volume/mass. That's a huge difference. One is grounded, the other is floating. But they know most people don't know the difference.

And there's a big difference between the old ice and the young ice.
But there is an average: northern ice is disappearing as southern ice is gaining area.

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/

 

[EagleSmack]

Pretty much. Capitalism got its greedy little mitts on a new idea and is running with it. What happens is that whatever people think, we are messing up the planet and all that is happening is that these gimmicks that interested parties develop have more to do with making money than having to do with being responsible. It is a large joke and those of us who are genuinely interested in our planet are labelled as extremist freaks in conjunction with the alarmists. So we get people like Walter, Ironsides, and others digging their heels in and saying there's nothing wrong and we should keep up the status quo. Well, they are wrong. We do mess up the planet and it will cost us heavily sooner or later. It costs the planet, too but it will recover, I think, but not after we've managed to put ourselves in deep water. I'd like us to do stuff sooner.

I do not think for one second Capitalism got it's mits on it...Socialism has. I doubt very highly a Capitalist wants to give earnings away for no return. It is socialism that takes wealth and distributes it which really is what Copenhagen turned into. Soft targets, such as western countries were singled out exclusively for pressure while completely and irresponsibly ignoring nations like China.

I am all for cleaning up the environment and doing the best we can to ease pollution. However, when the Climate Change movement ignores the elephant in the room and just wants western nations to fill the treasuries of third world nations without any restriction or monitoring on how the money is spent I feel the Climate Change Movement really aren't interested in anything more than money.

 

[Tonington]

And there's a big difference between the old ice and the young ice.
But there is an average: northern ice is disappearing as southern ice is gaining area.

Polar Sea Ice Cap and Snow - Cryosphere Today

Big news this year from a Canadian researcher. We've been interpreting the data from our satellites incorrectly. When the satellite observations are compared to physical examinations of the ice by researchers, what they find is "rotten ice".

Abstract here:
Perennial pack ice in the southern Beaufort Sea was not as it appeared in the summer of 2009

Summary report here:
http://www.arcus.org/search/seaiceo...rctic/pdf/barber-etal-2009-summary-report.pdf

 

[Avro]

I do not think for one second Capitalism got it's mits on it...Socialism has. I doubt very highly a Capitalist wants to give earnings away for no return. It is socialism that takes wealth and distributes it which really is what Copenhagen turned into. Soft targets, such as western countries were singled out exclusively for pressure while completely and irresponsibly ignoring nations like China.

I am all for cleaning up the environment and doing the best we can to ease pollution. However, when the Climate Change movement ignores the elephant in the room and just wants western nations to fill the treasuries of third world nations without any restriction or monitoring on how the money is spent I feel the Climate Change Movement really aren't interested in anything more than money.

So do nothing?

What can be done to pressure China and India to do more?

Also since the U.S. is one of the biggest producers of GHG's, shouldn't they as a developed nation take the lead here?

Is the U.S. capable of taking the lead given your current leader is a baffoon?

 

[AnnaG]

I do not think for one second Capitalism got it's mits on it...Socialism has.

Balogna. No-one will profit from all this transfering?

I doubt very highly a Capitalist wants to give earnings away for no return.

I doubt it, too.

It is socialism that takes wealth and distributes it which really is what Copenhagen turned into. Soft targets, such as western countries were singled out exclusively for pressure while completely and irresponsibly ignoring nations like China.

It's carbon capitalism. If there's money to be made anywhere, you can bet your fesses there's capitalism in the works.

I am all for cleaning up the environment and doing the best we can to ease pollution. However, when the Climate Change movement ignores the elephant in the room and just wants western nations to fill the treasuries of third world nations without any restriction or monitoring on how the money is spent I feel the Climate Change Movement really aren't interested in anything more than money.

Isn't being interested in nothing more than money capitalism?

 

[AnnaG]

Big news this year from a Canadian researcher. We've been interpreting the data from our satellites incorrectly. When the satellite observations are compared to physical examinations of the ice by researchers, what they find is "rotten ice".

Abstract here:
Perennial pack ice in the southern Beaufort Sea was not as it appeared in the summer of 2009

Summary report here:
http://www.arcus.org/search/seaiceo...rctic/pdf/barber-etal-2009-summary-report.pdf

wow!
I wonder how many here can picture the consequences of the old ice disappearing. Toasty summers tanning on the sands of Beaufort beaches?

 

[darkbeaver]

I do not think for one second Capitalism got it's mits on it...Socialism has. I doubt very highly a Capitalist wants to give earnings away for no return. It is socialism that takes wealth and distributes it which really is what Copenhagen turned into. Soft targets, such as western countries were singled out exclusively for pressure while completely and irresponsibly ignoring nations like China.

I am all for cleaning up the environment and doing the best we can to ease pollution. However, when the Climate Change movement ignores the elephant in the room and just wants western nations to fill the treasuries of third world nations without any restriction or monitoring on how the money is spent I feel the Climate Change Movement really aren't interested in anything more than money.

AH HA so socialism is a capitalist construct designed specifically to enrich and preserve the worthless social hierarchy through the illusion of choice. The western nations cannot fill the treasuries of the third world nations because the bankers have already emptied the western vaults. All that's left is the roads and bridges which will be torn up and sold for scrap to the Chinese Empire. Trust your feelings, the CCM is entirely about money and power.

 

[Walter]

Stock up on the OJ.

Freeze in Florida Tonight Will Be Worst Since 1989
1/10/2010 3:17 PM

Several blasts of arctic air have gripped the eastern two-thirds of the country since the beginning of the new year. In the South, the extreme cold has been threatening crops, and temperatures tonight could be the most damaging for some.

Tonight Will Be Most Damaging in Florida



So far, citrus-growers in Florida have gotten by with only light damage following several nights of sub-freezing temperatures over the past week. Tonight will likely prove more destructive as temperatures drop to the lowest levels in over 20 years.

According to AccuWeather.com Agricultural Meteorologist Dale Mohler, the hard freeze tonight will be the worst since December of 1989.
AccuWeather.com - Weather Blogs - Weather News

 

[Avro]

Stock up on the OJ.

Freeze in Florida Tonight Will Be Worst Since 1989
1/10/2010 3:17 PM

Several blasts of arctic air have gripped the eastern two-thirds of the country since the beginning of the new year. In the South, the extreme cold has been threatening crops, and temperatures tonight could be the most damaging for some.

Tonight Will Be Most Damaging in Florida



So far, citrus-growers in Florida have gotten by with only light damage following several nights of sub-freezing temperatures over the past week. Tonight will likely prove more destructive as temperatures drop to the lowest levels in over 20 years.

According to AccuWeather.com Agricultural Meteorologist Dale Mohler, the hard freeze tonight will be the worst since December of 1989.
AccuWeather.com - Weather Blogs - Weather News

Just another C&P for Tonnington to debunk and you to ignore.:lol:

 

[Tonington]

Lowest temperatures in 20 years, ie. not climate Walter. This is not the average weather is it? Nope.

Good thing it's weather and not climate, there wouldn't be any oranges growing at all in Florida.

 

[AnnaG]

Stock up on the OJ.

Freeze in Florida Tonight Will Be Worst Since 1989
1/10/2010 3:17 PM

Several blasts of arctic air have gripped the eastern two-thirds of the country since the beginning of the new year. In the South, the extreme cold has been threatening crops, and temperatures tonight could be the most damaging for some.

Tonight Will Be Most Damaging in Florida



So far, citrus-growers in Florida have gotten by with only light damage following several nights of sub-freezing temperatures over the past week. Tonight will likely prove more destructive as temperatures drop to the lowest levels in over 20 years.

According to AccuWeather.com Agricultural Meteorologist Dale Mohler, the hard freeze tonight will be the worst since December of 1989.
AccuWeather.com - Weather Blogs - Weather News

Africa looks pretty hot.

Geee, so does Oz:

South Am doesn't look quite as bad:

And south Asia looks pretty hot, too:

 

[Walter]

CONTIGUOUS UNITED STATES

Climate Summary

December 2009

The average temperature in December 2009 was 30.2 F. This was -3.2 F cooler than the 1901-2000 (20th century) average, the 14th coolest December in 115 years.
CONTIGUOUS UNITED STATES Climate Summary

 

[Tonington]

Those wacky deniers. They must think their audience is quite dense not to notice this. It's Roy Spencer's monthly update to the UAH MSU temperature records. See if you can spot the difference:

November:

December:

Lame...