Poll:- life better now or in 1959?

[countryboy]

Higher income today includes more taxes and more interest payments to the banks. . Another thing is a handshake in 1959 was as good as a yard of "fine print" today..

...And we get to pay for that yard of fine print, which leaves even less money to spend. Some might look at these buried costs (legal, eg) as simply a cost of doing business, but if society and life are so wonderful in '09, why are all these contractural documents, waivers, riders, disclaimers, and other expensive nonsense necessary? Could this mean that people in '09 are not as honest as people in '59, thus causing a real need to (expensively) protect ourselves from each other? Is this what is meant by a more civilized and humane society? Gawd, I thought the Charter was supposed to give us an overall umbrella of security, well-being, and a feeling of something approaching nirvana. Just curious... ;-)

 

[JLM]

...And we get to pay for that yard of fine print, which leaves even less money to spend. Some might look at these buried costs (legal, eg) as simply a cost of doing business, but if society and life are so wonderful in '09, why are all these contractural documents, waivers, riders, disclaimers, and other expensive nonsense necessary? Could this mean that people in '09 are not as honest as people in '59, thus causing a real need to (expensively) protect ourselves from each other? Is this what is meant by a more civilized and humane society? Gawd, I thought the Charter was supposed to give us an overall umbrella of security, well-being, and a feeling of something approaching nirvana. Just curious... ;-)

Yeah, it's a load of laughs like the women who sued the fast food joint for $thousands because it was their hot coffee that she scalded herself with and the other woman who sued the department store for a bundle for injuries incurred from tripping on toys strewed over the floor, put there by her bratty kid. Maybe S.J. thinks life is better today because there are more laughs (if you have a sick sense of humour)

 

[countryboy]

Yeah, it's a load of laughs like the women who sued the fast food joint for $thousands because it was their hot coffee that she scalded herself with and the other woman who sued the department store for a bundle for injuries incurred from tripping on toys strewed over the floor, put there by her bratty kid. Maybe S.J. thinks life is better today because there are more laughs (if you have a sick sense of humour)

I think perhaps we're working from different definitions of life. Mine includes feelings, emotions, ups, downs, challenges, disappointments, victories, good times, bad times, and above all, a feeling that hopefully we're all contributing something worthwhile to society.

It can't always be measured by statistics, charts, graphs, etc. Some of the folks with whom I used to work - those that were inclined that way to an extreme - seemed to lack a certain amount of emotional feeling and I might say, a love of life itself. The extreme cases appeared to be slaves to statistics and scientific analysis, which sometimes led me to think that they would have trouble functioning in a situation where they might actually have to think too deeply about any human problem that might come their way.

Granted, it does take all kinds to make this old world go around, and I can appreciate that those types of folks have a function in life. But, when it comes to a discussion on the merits of "life" say, in '59 vs. '09, my "analysis" tells me we might be talking two different languages. And that may account for the differences, as we all see them.

Or, maybe I'm just thinking that way because it's Christmas and I'm in a "goodwill to all men" mood. Or it could be that, as a product of the 50s, I'm just a hell of a nice guy! Who knows?...life is one big mysterious adventure! (And I have no statistical evidence of that...just a feelin'...:lol::lol::lol:

 

[petros]

CB... Personal income taxes cost you about 34% of your income. Corporations pay 6%. The lowest rate in the G nations. Incorporating yourself is the only way to go.

 

[petros]

2 1959 50 cent pieces weigh in at 23.5gr an are 80 pure leaving approx. 19gr in pure weight which is worth a penny or 2 over $12.

Today two 50 cent pieces are worth $1 by law but aren't worth a penny in any other value.

Even a penny minted in 1959 is worth 3.2 cents in copper. Todays penny 0.125 in aluminum.

How long before they offer us plastic coins worth even less?

 

[petros]

2 1959 50 cent pieces weigh in at 23.5gr an are 80 pure leaving approx. 19gr in pure weight which is worth a penny or 2 over $12.

Today two 50 cent pieces are worth $1 by law but aren't worth a penny in any other value.

Even a penny minted in 1959 is worth 3.2 cents in copper. Todays penny 0.125 in aluminum.

How long before they offer us plastic coins worth even less?

If our money still had that value you could fill your tank for around $5

Kinda like you'd could back when?

1959 perhaps?

 

[TenPenny]

CB... Personal income taxes cost you about 34% of your income. Corporations pay 6%. The lowest rate in the G nations. Incorporating yourself is the only way to go.

Even if you incorporate yourself, there will still be the 'person' you who has to pay personal income tax.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Higher income today includes more taxes and more interest payments to the banks. . Another thing is a handshake in 1959 was as good as a yard of "fine print" today..

It also means more take home pay compared to 50 years ago, JLM. It also means higher standard of living today.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

LMAO..... 2009 was a RECORD YEAR for complaints filed with the ADL. Sorry Rup but you're waaaaay off.

So are you saying that racial prejudice is worse than it was 50 years ago? That blacks are routinely denied services in the stores, restaurants etc.? It was quite common 50 years ago, it was totally up to the business whether they want to serve blacks or not.

Or are you saying that employment, education opportunities for women are worse than they were 50 years ago? Or that gays are being imprisoned today in Canada just for being gay as was done 50 years ago?

It is important to have proper perspective on the matter. So there has been an increase in complaints, we are still waaaaaaaaay better off than 50 years ago.

If 50 years ago, racial prejudice was at a level of 100 (100 being maximum), today it would be around 20, if there have been increases in complaints it probably has inched up to 21 or 22, still waaaaaaaaay below 100.

Or are you really saying that blacks, women, gays would prefer to go back to the ‘good old days’ of 50 years ago?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

"You got that right JLM, I never respond to anything Anna says, it is just a waste of time."- That surprises me, Anna is generally right on the money.

Sorry JLM, but to me, anything that is liberally laced with personal insults, perosnal abuse, filth is not worth reading (nor worth saying).

Anyway S.J. the subject is about better, not more- like we've got more people hooked up to wires and hoses today and yes we've got a higher standard of living if that's watching a 52" T.V. owned by the bank.

And who decides if it is better, JLM? Whether it is better or not is a personal opinion of the geriatrics who have fond, nostalgic memories of good old days of 50 years ago. For them all the bad aspects of 50 years ago have been dimmed by the mists of time, they remember only the good aspects (or what they think were the good aspects, like white man reigning supreme) and to them those were really golden days, things have gone to the dogs today.

Statistical evidence tells us if we are better off compared to 05 years ago, and we are definitely better off. Whether one is personally better off or not is for the person to decide. It may be that you are worse off than you were 50 years ago, but that does not mean that everybody is. I think very few people would want to go back to the good old days with no computer, internet, ATM machines, microwave oven, cell phones etc.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Comments above in blue, within the quote

life expectancy – much greater today. - Check the latest projections..it's going the other way.

Countryboy, so let me get this straight, are you saying that life expectancy today is less that it was 50 years ago? If so, put up the statistics, please. Without statistics, this is just your personal opinion, it only tells me that you don’t like today’s society, you would rather go back to the segregated, prejudiced society of 50 years ago, so you have convinced yourself that life expectancy today is lower than that of 50 years ago.

health – much better today - ? Need specifics here - I'm reading about certain diseases (eg, diabetes) that are approaching epidemic levels. (I believe it's the old burden of proof thing.

I will dig this up later. But I have read that people live much longer today without any serious disease compared to 50 years ago.

personal income – much higher today - How much of it do we get to keep? Just asking...I don't have the stats but then, the burden is on you. My definition of personal income vis-a-vis comparative quality of life is how much you get to decide to spend...disposable income.

Personal take home pay is much more than it was 50 years ago (even accounting for inflation). I have already put up the statistic in the thread, go back and hunt for it. I have no wish to keep going over the same ground again and again.

living comforts – much better and widespread toady - living comforts is subjective...please be more specific. I don't have a widespread toady...is that some sort of furniture?

I see, so I assume you don’t think that cheaper plane travel, cell phones, microwave ovens, DVD players etc. make our life easier and more pleasant today? Do you think those are invensit0ns of the Devil, sent down by him to corrupt us?

standard of living - much higher today Measurements, please

Again, I have already put up the statistics, go hunt for it or find on your own. I have no desire to do the same research over and over again whenever somebody demands proof.

scientific knowledge - much more advanced today No question about it, although I'm not sure how that might be have a net impact on everyday life, but I'll give you one for that.

Oh, so you think something is better today ,do you? Wow, what a surprise. My impression was that today we are living in a living Hell, 50 years ago we were living in Heaven, in paradise.

Technological innovations – we have technology today which was not even dreamed of 50 years ago, such as microwave, oven, cell phone, computer, DVD and many more. They may prove to be not all that wonderful...microwave ovens are questionable in terms of what they do to food, cell phones are suspected of causing brain cancer, computers when overused, tend to make people weird, and you get one point for DVD.

So I assume you don’t use microwave, don’t own a ell phone, don’t use a computer, don’t use DVD player, ATM machine, don’t use any of the inventions of the Devil, you live the pure, Godly lifestyle of 50 years ago, Right? Then do you perhaps mail in your posts to the forum and moderators post them for you?

racial tolerance – much more widespread today – 50 years ago it was routine, customary to discriminate against women, against blacks, to lock up gays for being homosexual etc. They didn't lock up the 2 gay guys in my hometown...one was a student, the other a highly respected music teacher

I assume they were gays? Well, again look up in the literature, there have been cases 50 years ago of imprisoning gays because they participated in consensual gay sex.

Civil society - much more humane, more civilized more fair today. Oh boy, we really need that burden of proof thing here.

Sorry, but the proof is all around you. Blacks, women are treated as equal today, 50 years ago they were not.

So far, I think you've scored two or possibly 3 (personal income), which puts that right in line JLM's post re: those two or three things. The rest are simply the result of an active imagination and/or an unsubstantiated opinion.

2 or 3 in your opinion perhaps. In my opinion, I have scored on all of them. You haven’t been able to produce even a single statistics to show that life was better in the ‘good old days’.

Personal opinion is cheap, you cannot produce even a single scrap of statistics to show us how the good old days were so wonderful, how the current days are straight from Hell.

 

[JLM]

I think perhaps we're working from different definitions of life. Mine includes feelings, emotions, ups, downs, challenges, disappointments, victories, good times, bad times, and above all, a feeling that hopefully we're all contributing something worthwhile to society.

It can't always be measured by statistics, charts, graphs, etc. Some of the folks with whom I used to work - those that were inclined that way to an extreme - seemed to lack a certain amount of emotional feeling and I might say, a love of life itself. The extreme cases appeared to be slaves to statistics and scientific analysis, which sometimes led me to think that they would have trouble functioning in a situation where they might actually have to think too deeply about any human problem that might come their way.

Granted, it does take all kinds to make this old world go around, and I can appreciate that those types of folks have a function in life. But, when it comes to a discussion on the merits of "life" say, in '59 vs. '09, my "analysis" tells me we might be talking two different languages. And that may account for the differences, as we all see them.

Or, maybe I'm just thinking that way because it's Christmas and I'm in a "goodwill to all men" mood. Or it could be that, as a product of the 50s, I'm just a hell of a nice guy! Who knows?...life is one big mysterious adventure! (And I have no statistical evidence of that...just a feelin'...:lol::lol::lol:

You have the right idea, some people think life is good if they are driving a Cadillac, have an R.V. play golf 5 days a week and watch a 52" T.V. , but at the same time the 3 old ladies and the 2 blind men they had to knock over to get it doesn't count. To some of us life is a lot more than material wealth and personal safety, it's about how we played the game and whether we benefitted others.

 

[JLM]

"Countryboy, so let me get this straight, are you saying that life expectancy today is less that it was 50 years ago? If so, put up the statistics, please. Without statistics, this is just your personal opinion, it only tells me that you don’t like today’s society, you would rather go back to the segregated, prejudiced society of 50 years ago, so you have convinced yourself that life expectancy today is lower than that of 50 years ago."-

WE know roughly how long people born 50 years ago are living, we have absolutely no idea how long people born in '09 are going to live- world may end in 2012, but if the obesity among children doesn't turn around, they are not likely to last as long as those born in the 50s (my own doctor told me this).

"Personal take home pay is much more than it was 50 years ago (even accounting for inflation). I have already put up the statistic in the thread, go back and hunt for it. I have no wish to keep going over the same ground again and again."

YOU just don't seem to get it, quality of life has VERY little to do with material wealth, but rather how you make use of whatever wealth you have.

"I see, so I assume you don’t think that cheaper plane travel, cell phones, microwave ovens, DVD players etc. make our life easier and more pleasant today? Do you think those are invensit0ns of the Devil, sent down by him to corrupt us?"

NO, I don't fly on planes, I use a cell phone very seldom and mostly for emergencies, I have a DVD player, which the grandkids use, but makes life no better for me than the old $20 record player and the microwave which I do use is just a little handier alternative than the old warming oven at the top of the old sawdust burning range we had back in the 50s. (It was used to heat the hot water tank too, microwave oven doesn't do that).

ATM machines don't make life better, they just encourage lack of planning and squandering of money. Sometimes we adults get to be like little kids, have to have it now and get grumpy when we don't get our way. In the 1950s we didn't have to keep our money locked up in a bank 24/7 we could take the money out of the bank on a Friday that we needed for the weekend and take it home and put it on a shelf or in our wallet without much fear of it being robbed. So the premise that A.T.M.s makes our lives better is bullsh*t.
Like Countryboy says, some things are better and some are worse, life is probably easier today in the short term but tougher for the long haul. One of the real measures that beats statistics hands down is how many people that you met on the street in '59 smiled at you as compared to how many smile at you today.

 

[lone wolf]

So, porter, if your wife comes, do you ask for the read-out?

 

[JLM]

" You haven’t been able to produce even a single statistics "

YOu are completely missing the point- not all of us measure quality of life by statistics, so really it's not much use even having the discussion until we are all agree on which tool we are going to use as the "measuring stick".

 

[SirJosephPorter]

WE know roughly how long people born 50 years ago are living, we have absolutely no idea how long people born in '09 are going to live- world may end in 2012, but if the obesity among children doesn't turn around, they are not likely to last as long as those born in the 50s (my own doctor told me this).

You are right JLM, we don’t know how long those who are born in 2009 will live. As you say, the world may end tomorrow, then they will have lived only a year. However, statistics is about making projections, making calculated predictions, and statistics tell us that life expectancy in Canada is 81 years today, 10 years more than 50 years ago.

As to obesity, that is a caution only, it tells us what may happen if nothing is done, if no steps are taken to correct the situation. That is very iffy, you sound as if it is a done deal, that people are dying in the street due to obesity.

Based upon current information, life expectancy in Canada is 81 years, 10 years more than 50 years ago.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

"Personal take home pay is much more than it was 50 years ago (even accounting for inflation). I have already put up the statistic in the thread, go back and hunt for it. I have no wish to keep going over the same ground again and again."

YOU just don't seem to get it, quality of life has VERY little to do with material wealth, but rather how you make use of whatever wealth you have.

Really? Then when I said that personal incomes are much higher today, why did you and countryboy came back with ‘but what about taxes’? The clear implication was that taxes are eating up whatever improvement in personal income was there. To that my reply is no, even after taxes, average person is financially much better off today than 50 years ago

As to quality of life, it depends upon both how much wealth you have and how you are using it. If somebody earns so little that he is starving, it wouldn’t make any difference how well he uses whatever wealth he has, he will still be miserable.

The first requirement is clearly better today, people have much more disposable income than they did 50 years ago. As to how they make use of what they have, that depends upon the individual and has nothing to do with whether it was 50 years ago or today. There were responsible and irresponsible people 50 years ago, there are today. So I don’t’ see how that is relevant to the discussion here.

The means for a better quality of life are clearly more substantial today, how those means are used is up to the individual.

To demonstrate it with an analogy, let us talk in terms of fish. People have many more fish available today than 50 years ago, they have the means to assuage their hunger. Now, whether they eat the fish, or throw it into the garbage, is up to them.

 

[lone wolf]

How can an opinion be wrong or right?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

NO, I don't fly on planes, I use a cell phone very seldom and mostly for emergencies, I have a DVD player, which the grandkids use, but makes life no better for me than the old $20 record player and the microwave which I do use is just a little handier alternative than the old warming oven at the top of the old sawdust burning range we had back in the 50s. (It was used to heat the hot water tank too, microwave oven doesn't do that).

I see, so you do make use of the fruits of the progress over the past 50 years. And you don’t fly on planes, have never flown by a plane? Astounding.

ATM machines don't make life better, they just encourage lack of planning and squandering of money. Sometimes we adults get to be like little kids, have to have it now and get grumpy when we don't get our way.

So do you use ATM machine or don’t you? You didn’t really answer that. For your information, I don’t use it, never had any use for it. I don’t even have an ATM card. But many people use it, it must make life easier for them, otherwise why would they use it?

we could take the money out of the bank on a Friday that we needed for the weekend and take it home and put it on a shelf or in our wallet without much fear of it being robbed. .

Again the same old canard eh? The same old claims of huge, skyrocketing crime rate in Canada. Well, once again, for your information, crime rate in Canada is very low by world standards and is dropping almost every year.

Like Countryboy says, some things are better and some are worse, life is probably easier today in the short term but tougher for the long haul. One of the real measures that beats statistics hands down is how many people that you met on the street in '59 smiled at you as compared to how many smile at you today.

For you information JLM, plenty of people smile at you today. We live in a posh area, you will find very few people on the street. But I do meet people when I go for a walk, I meet other people who have come out for a walk, invariably they say ‘hello’ to you.

 

[lone wolf]

YEs ... I can see where saying hello to you would involve debate with someone they really would rather not be associated with