Are Women Ready for Real Portfolios?

countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
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Gee, isn't the topic called "Are Women Ready for Real Portfolios?" I guess I'd better go back and figure out where the topic changed to Government Debt and Deficits.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Gee, isn't the topic called "Are Women Ready for Real Portfolios?" I guess I'd better go back and figure out where the topic changed to Government Debt and Deficits.

Probably something to do with their ability to run up deficits and debt. :lol::lol::lol:
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
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You're dreaming S.J. (and I've known the difference between gov't. deficits and debt for decades) gov't debt is just the accumulation of gov't deficits- you know as well as I do that those deficits get tacked onto the debt.

Quite right, JLM. But how does that contradict with anything I said?
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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TenPenny: That's almost it;: deficit (or surplus) is the difference between what you make and what you spend in a year.

Debt is the amount that you owe already.

If you run a surplus one year, you can pay off some of the debt. If you run a deficit, the debt will grow.
And the prize goes to...

The debt we have now is result of the deficits of preceeding years. Of course paying interest on the debt also has an impact on the bottom line.
I see. I don'
t see much of a problem with a deficit when you can't plan for things such as this economic mess. I guess they are bound to happen sometimes. But, when you are wasting billions of dollars on interest because of the debt, espoecially when you don't need to, it's just dumb.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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Well yes, but debt is not really a big problem, deficit is. Let me illustrate again by taking the example of a family.

Let us say a family has an income of 50,000 $ per year. That family has no debt, but it spends 60,000 $ per year. It is clear that the family will be soon in big trouble, they will probably have to declare bankruptcy, and seriously curb their spending, alter their spending habits to stay within their means. That is what deficit does.

Now, suppose the same family, earning 50,000 $ per year, has a debt of 100,000 $ (may be mortgage, debt for educational expenses, medical emergency etc.). That is a large debt. But suppose the family is living within its means, it is making payments for the interest every month and that is it. That family can stay out of trouble indefinitely, provided they don’t spend more than what they earn.

Now let us further suppose that the family has the same amount of debt for 20 years. In the meantime, the wife goes out to work, does very well in her job, perhaps better than the husband and in 20 years’ time, family income jumps to 150,000 $ per year. Now, the same 100,000 $ debt does not feel so burdensome any more. The interest payment, which constituted significant portion of expense 20 years ago, are a negligible part of the expenditure now.

So it is possible to grow your way out of debt. It is the deficit that is the killer.
Unless your family still keeps spending $60K a year.
If we had no debt to begin with , we wouldn't be wasting bugger all on interest. That would be one less thing to add to the deficit every year so if one had to run a deficit, there'd be less deficit. It's freaking stupid to say debt doesn't matter and deficit does when your interest on debt is more than the deficit.

So what happens when you are spending more on accumulated interest than the capital was? That kind of makes the deficit irrelevant, doesn't it? lmao Whatta buffoon.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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Probably something to do with their ability to run up deficits and debt. :lol::lol::lol:
Bad spin, JLM. So, why we have a debt and a deficit is because all the PMs we've had have been women? lmao
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Quite right, JLM. But how does that contradict with anything I said?

From what you say I get the impression you dismiss Gov't debt as not a bad thing, and you compare it to such things as a mortgage on a house- DEAD WRONG. If I have a mortgage on my house I can sell the house and pay off the debt. Gov't debt isn't always on stuff that can be bought and sold - it may be for a highway or bridge or canal, or even a berm, - who in their right mind is going to buy these things off the Gov't? The only way Gov't debt is paid is through our noses.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
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From what you say I get the impression you dismiss Gov't debt as not a bad thing, and you compare it to such things as a mortgage on a house- DEAD WRONG. If I have a mortgage on my house I can sell the house and pay off the debt. Gov't debt isn't always on stuff that can be bought and sold - it may be for a highway or bridge or canal, or even a berm, - who in their right mind is going to buy these things off the Gov't? The only way Gov't debt is paid is through our noses.


I never said debt was a good thing, JLM. What I said is that deficit is the real problem, if there is no deficit, we can deal with the debt in several different ways. We could pay off the debt a bit very year and pay if off over several decades, or we can even grow into it (like the example I gave of the family whose income went from 50,000 $ to 150,000 $ per year).

Debt occurs as a result of the deficit. If deficit is not a good thing, it follows that debt is also not a good thing. What I am saying is that in the absence of deficit, debt is not as big a problem. It is the deficit that is the killer.

And sell your house, are you serious? You would sell the house you are living in only in the direst of circumstances. And there is no guarantee that you will get your money back by selling the house, especially when housing market has tanked, as it did in USA recently.

If you have a mortgage of 120,000 $ and the current value of your housing is 100,000 $ (as can happen when real estate market crashes), then selling your house puts you in the hole for 20,000 $, you have to raise 20,000 $ right away to pay off the loan. So selling the house is not always the answer. Especially that is your only means of abode, you would do that only if you are really desperate.
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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I never said debt was a good thing, JLM. What I said is that deficit is the real problem, if there is no deficit, we can deal with the debt in several different ways. We could pay off the debt a bit very year and pay if off over several decades, or we can even grow into it (like the example I gave of the family whose income went from 50,000 $ to 150,000 $ per year).

Debt occurs as a result of the deficit. If deficit is not a good thing, it follows that debt is also not a good thing. What I am saying is that in the absence of deficit, debt is not as big a problem. It is the deficit that is the killer.

And sell your house, are you serious? You would sell the house you are living in only in the direst of circumstances. And there is no guarantee that you will get your money back by selling the house, especially when housing market has tanked, as it did in USA recently.

If you have a mortgage of 120,000 $ and the current value of your housing is 100,000 $ (as can happen when real estate market crashes), then selling your house puts you in the hole for 20,000 $, you have to raise 20,000 $ right away to pay off the loan. So selling the house is not always the answer. Especially that is your only means of abode, you would do that only if you are really desperate.

The situation you describe is right out of the book of (U.S.) sub prime nonsense, it would virtually never happen in Canada. I know, I just took out a modest mortgage on a house I have 60% equity in and enough mutual funds to back the mortgage and still the scrutiny and background checks I was put under was mind boggling. That is a good thing given what's happened with the whole financial situation world wide, so I can assure you the situation you describe is a one in a million. Sure there are dips in real estate values, but I defy you to find a time in the past 50 years where the value of a house was less than it was even five years previous.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
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The situation you describe is right out of the book of (U.S.) sub prime nonsense, it would virtually never happen in Canada.

Sure, but I wasn't confining my remarks about debt and deficit only to Canada. Debt and deficit are general problems, and not unique only to Canada.

If you refer to my previous post, I did indeed refer to USA, I never claimed that such a situation has come up in Canada.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Sure, but I wasn't confining my remarks about debt and deficit only to Canada. Debt and deficit are general problems, and not unique only to Canada.

If you refer to my previous post, I did indeed refer to USA, I never claimed that such a situation has come up in Canada.

Canadian Forums » Politics » Canadian Politics » Are Women Ready for Real Portfolios?



Pulling a switcheroo on me are you S.J.? AS you can see from the headings I've copied, everything about this thread is Canadian, you and I are Canadians we are discussing Canadian politics and the Canadian mortgage system- so why can't you just debate the point within those confines?