Is Jesus A Prophet According To The Old Testament?

[big]

Speaking as a real father, I'd say that's a pathetic and depressing view of it. I pity you.

"Speaking as a real father" is yet another meaningless expression since speech purpose is to keep the real at bay.

http://www.answers.com/topic/real-the-lacan

 

[AnnaG]

It is pretty stupid that you don't understand.

Actually it is more stupid that you believe all that balogna that you do.

God does not make devils or wrong-doers in the first or second place.

So there really ARE things that this all-powerful being can't control. I see.

He created them and left the choice free for them, but they chose to do wrong and transgress, and some of them became devils [: they know the truth but work contrary to it].

Right. It made stuff, knows everything including what would happen, and then allowed it to happen anyway, and then whines about it later. It's an idiot.
It'd be like designing a virus to attack living beings and then snivelling about it when the virus attacks the designer. Stupid.
Or building a bicycle with a square wheel and then whining when it can't get anywhere very well. Moronic.

So those who do wrong, God dislikes them and will mislead them and leave them to Satan to confuse them and increase their error.

Then this god should have designed things differently.

This is in the Quran 107: 1-3

أَرَأَيْتَ الَّذِي يُكَذِّبُ بِالدِّينِ .فَذَلِكَ الَّذِي يَدُعُّ الْيَتِيمَ . وَلَا يَحُضُّ عَلَى طَعَامِ الْمِسْكِينِ​

The explanation:
(Have you considered him who denies 'the punishment and the reward' [in the afterlife.]​

>> It is he who thrusts the orphan [away from his rights.]​

>> And never urges [people] to feed the needy.)​

http://www.quran-ayat.com/​

[/quote]I don't give a crap about the Quran.
Here's Shingebiss: a tale from my people's mythology.

Long ago, the People could not stay in their northern homes all year round. It was pleasant in the summer, cool and breezy. But in the fall they knew they would have to go south like the birds, like the buffalo. Because of Old Man North Wind.
Old Man North Wind's headdress was not made of feathers, but of icicles. His clothes were made of ice and snow. And the features of his face were fierce, twisted with hate for other living things.
When he came down from the far north country and blew his frosty breath -- Pah! (I strike the strings hard here, rather than make a mouth noise) -- everything froze. There was no more food. The animals who could not sleep through the winter had to go south. The People went, too.
But one year a young woman of the tribe, whose name was Shingebiss, said "It's not fair that we have to leave our homes because of Old Man North Wind! He's just a creature like the rest of us. I'm not afraid of him." And she sang,

Ka-neej, ka-neej,
Bee-in, bee-in,
Bon-in, bon-in,
Ok-ee, ok-ee,
Ka-weya, ka-weya!

(North Wind, North Wind, fierce of feature;
You are still my fellow creature.
Blow your worst. You can't scare me.
I'm not afraid and so I'm free.)

The other People said, "No, Shingebiss, you must not stay. You will freeze. You will starve! Come south with us."
But Shingebiss refused. "I have ideas for ways to stay warm and find food. I want to try them. I'm not afraid." And she sang again.

The other people pleaded with her, but she was stubborn. So they said goodbye. They were sure that they would never see her alive again.
When they had gone south, Shingebiss began to work. She built a new kind of lodge, not open and breezy like the summer lodges of the People, but with double walls -- which she stuffed with dry grass and moss, to keep out the cold and wind. Then she collected great piles of dry wood, so that she could keep her fire going at all times.
She waited. And she sang.


Then Old Man North Wind came down from the far north country. He blew his frosty breath -- Pah! -- and everything died. Everything was still... except for the smoke rising from Shingebiss' lodge.
"What is this?" he asked. "Who is this, who dares to defy me? They can't live without food." He blew his frosty breath -- Pah! -- on the lakes and streams. Thick ice covered them.
But Shingebiss just walked out onto the ice and chopped holes. She went ice fishing! She took her fish home to her lodge, cooked them and ate them. She was warm and comfortable, and she sang.

Old Man North Wind blew around and around Shingebiss' lodge, but she just built up her fire and was warm and comfortable.
"So," said Old Man North Wind, "I will come inside." And he stepped in the door.
Shingebiss was sitting by her fire, with her back to the door, but she felt the chill when Old Man North Wind came in. She added more wood to the fire and sang.

Old Man North Wind came closer. He sat down next to her!
But she just added more wood.
The flames rose higher, and higher ...
Old Man North Wind began to notice that his headdress of icicles was drooping ...
His clothes of ice and snow were becoming soggy, and full of holes ...
Drops of water ran down his face.
"What is this? It can't be tears, because I never cry. This can only mean that I'm -- melting!!!"
Old Man North Wind ran out of Shingebiss' lodge and rolled in the snow until he was cold again.
"This Shingebiss," he said, " she is too strong for me."
In the spring, when the People returned, they were amazed to find Shingebiss alive and well. "We thought you would freeze and starve! We thought we would find nothing but your bones!"
Shingebiss said, "I have learned ways to keep warm, and ways to find food. I can teach them to you. But you can't stay here if you're afraid."
So she also taught them her song.

 

[AnnaG]

"Real father" is a meaningless expression since being a father is a purely symbolic social role. Religion is about having faith in the efficacy of this symbolic order without which one becomes psychotic.

lol That's funny. Thanks.

 

[AnnaG]

It has been my experience that many of the religious faithful are anti social and psychotic.

Yeah. Funny concept. Being psychotic or sane depends upon being faithful or not. lmao

 

[AnnaG]

"Speaking as a real father" is yet another meaningless expression since speech purpose is to keep the real at bay.

http://www.answers.com/topic/real-the-lacan

So you say. Keep talking. lmao

 

[big]

Many posters seem to forget the topic of this thread. Here something closely related to this topic:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." (Matthew 5:17)

 

[Dexter Sinister]

"Speaking as a real father" is yet another meaningless expression since speech purpose is to keep the real at bay.

Got it, you read and believe post-modern deconstructionist crap, you're probably a fan of Derrida and Foucault too. Psychoanalysis is a pseudoscience that is not falsifiable, predictive, or testable.

 

[gopher]

''God does not make devils or wrong-doers in the first or second place. ''


Yes he does according to the Bible. See Isaiah 45:7 where he boasts of creating all good and all evil.

 

[Spade]

Tyger, Tyger, Burning Bright

 

[Dexter Sinister]

The Second Coming

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all around it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?


-William Butler Yeats, 1920

 

[eanassir]

Devils only exist to those who believe in them. I don't have any devils but obviously you do. ;-)

Curse be on your Devil; will Devil wait for you to believe in him so that he may deceive you or anyone else ? :roll:

Moreover, your saying that you have no devil: it means his trick against you is successful.

 

[big]

Got it, you read and believe post-modern deconstructionist crap, you're probably a fan of Derrida and Foucault too. Psychoanalysis is a pseudoscience that is not falsifiable, predictive, or testable.

Forget about science (and about Derrida and Foucault), science will never be able to answer this topic's question for the same reason it will never be able to answer a question like: at what point an accumulation of grains of sand can be said to form a mound or heap?

 

[Cliffy]

Curse be on your Devil; will Devil wait for you to believe in him so that he may deceive you or anyone else ? :roll:

Moreover, your saying that you have no devil: it means his trick against you is successful.

The greatest deception the devil ever accomplished was to convince man that he was God/Allah. Enjoy your deception.

 

[AnnaG]

Psychoanalysis is a pseudoscience that is not falsifiable, predictive, or testable.

That sounds like religious foundation. lol

 

[Cliffy]

That sounds like religious foundation. lol

After working with Mental Health for years I am convinced that psychiatry is only about peddling drugs for the pharmaceuticals. Like religion it uses mythology to create dependence.

 

[In Between Man]

In your blind faith to the written word, you fail to see that it is not Jesus who is the liar or the lunatic but it is those who misinterpreted the words in the first place.There is nowhere in the original texts where Jesus said he was the Son of God.

He said I am a son of god

That is a lie. Jesus never said that. You show me. Reference the translation of bible your using and show me where it states that Jesus says he is "a son of God".

Reference Post#189. Jesus made both direct and indirect claims to be God. That reference is one of him most direct. Caiapha asks Jesus point blank "Are you the Christ[the anointed one], the Son of the Blessed One[Son of God]?"

"I am" is Jesus' response.

Not to mention dozens of indirect claims, like calling himself the "I am the first and the last" (Rev. 1:17) - precisely the words used by God of himself in Isaiah 44:6. Or insisting that "No one comes to the Father except through me"(John 14:6).

In addition to making statements that affirmed his deity (and in addition to performing miracles), Jesus acted as if he was God:

He said to a paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven" (Mark 2:5-11). The scribes correctly responded, "Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

Jesus declared, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me" and then immediately gave a new commandment, "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations... (Matt.28:18-19).

God had given the Ten Commandments to Moses, but Jesus said, "A new commandment I give you: Love one another"(John 13:34).

He requested prayer in his name: "And I will do whatever you ask in my name... You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it" (John 14:13-14); "If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be
given you" (John 15:7)

Further, despite the fact that both the Old and New Testaments forbid worshiping anyone other than God (Ex. 20:1-4; Deut. 5:6-9;Acts 14:15; Rev. 22:8-9), Jesus accepted worship on at least nine occasions. These include worship from:

1. a healed leper (Matt. 8:2)
2. a ruler whose son Jesus had healed (Matt 9:18)
3. the disciples after a storm (Matt. 14:33)
4. a Canaanite woman (Matt. 15:25)
5. the mother of James and John (Matt. 20:20)
6. a Gerasene demoniac (Mark 5:6)
7. a healed blind man(John 9:38)
8. all the disciples (Matt. 28:17)
9. Thomas, who said, "My Lord and my God"(John 20:28)

He never placed himself above anybody.

All of these people worshiped Jesus without one word of rebuke from him. Not only did Jesus accept this worship, he even commended those who acknowledged his deity (John 20:29; Matt. 16:17). This could only be done by a person who seriously considered himself to be God.

It was the translators who deified him 300 years after he died. It is you who is mistaken because you have been purposely mislead by those who formed the official church of Rome and the bible back in the years 316 Ad.

You've mention this crack-pot theory before, yet you fail to provide evidence with references.

With 2500 or so modern interpretations of the bible, even christian cannot agree on moral absolutes.

Why are you claiming to speak for Christians? Also, moral absolutes and Jesus' deity are two different things. One is God's standard and the other is Jesus' nature.

A polite reminder Cliffy; please, I wish to see evidence with references that a) Jesus claimed to be "a son of God" and b) the RCC twisted the whole bible and its not what Jesus said.

 

[AnnaG]

What Did Jesus Really Say ? - How many "Sons" does God have?

 

[In Between Man]

You depend in your assertion on the available Gospels which are not the original words said by Jesus.

I want to see evidence with references for that claim.

And yes, Jesus was a prophet, an apostle and righteous servant of God; and he fulfilled the will of his Lord: God the Creator Who sent him to reform a stubborn people.

He can't be a prophet if he claimed to be God, so I'm afraid this is a pending until you find your source for your claimed that the gospel IS NOT what Jesus spoke and did.

God killed Jesus: i.e. He made him die, as did He make his mother die and all people die: the past and the present and the coming generations.

Wrong. Jesus was a sacrifice for all of the human race. A perfect sacrifice that exchanged all our iniquities onto him so that we can take part of his perfection. That's what God promised in the Old Testament, and that's what he promised of his nature:

"His death was the ultimate expression of love for you" (1John 4:10)
"I gave up everything I loved that I might gain your love" (Romans 8:32)




​

 

[AnnaG]

Wrong. Jesus was a sacrifice for all of the human race. A perfect sacrifice that exchanged all our iniquities onto him so that we can take part of his perfection. That's what God promised in the Old Testament, and that's what he promised of his nature:

"His death was the ultimate expression of love for you" (1John 4:10)
"I gave up everything I loved that I might gain your love" (Romans 8:32)​

If this god was a better designer, all that sacrificing wouldn't have been necessary.
​

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Forget about science (and about Derrida and Foucault), science will never be able to answer this topic's question for the same reason it will never be able to answer a question like: at what point an accumulation of grains of sand can be said to form a mound or heap?

That is quite perceptive of you, big. You are right; science will never be able to answer that question. Science wouldn’t even attempt to answer the question. That is because the concept of God is meaningless as far as science is concerned. So science does not recognize any Prophets.

As to Old Testament well, according to science, it is just a book (same as the Bible or Koran), nothing more.