And there we agree. We have such a shortage, that even if our doctors doubled it wouldn't effect the supply and demand the AMA and CMA are trying to protect.
Obama Health care Reform
- Thread starter DaSleeper
- Start date
Te bill is what, 1500 pages long? Who has the time to read it? And if you read a book 1500 pages long, how much of it do you think you will remember? You will be lucky to remember 10% of it.
They may not have time to read that bill, but correct me if I'm wrong, it wouldn't even be the final bill that goes to Obama's desk? They will combine the House and Senate bills? So nobody has even seen the final reading of the bill.
And I hear the public option is in now. Reid put it in, so now it needs 60 votes to get it out, instead of 60 votes to get it in?
And I hear the public option is in now. Reid put it in, so now it needs 60 votes to get it out, instead of 60 votes to get it in?
Appealing to peoples morals to get them to go with your political agenda? Hmmmm And especially if congress have exempted themselves from said political agenda? Hmmmm
It also says that he doesn't go to church himself but wants to use the church to help him further his political agenda. IF this article is true then it all seems rather sketchy. I mean, it does sound kinda Hitler-ish. Doesn't it?
You do have to question why they would want to implement something onto it's own society but exempt itself from that same policy. That's like being invited to dinner but you're the only one being served the 'special' dish.
What are the poor American's gonna have to deal with now? Bush was bad enough.
It also says that he doesn't go to church himself but wants to use the church to help him further his political agenda. IF this article is true then it all seems rather sketchy. I mean, it does sound kinda Hitler-ish. Doesn't it?
You do have to question why they would want to implement something onto it's own society but exempt itself from that same policy. That's like being invited to dinner but you're the only one being served the 'special' dish.
What are the poor American's gonna have to deal with now? Bush was bad enough.
Understanding the bill it totally different from reading it front to back. To understand the bill, the senator would have to talk to his advisors who are experts in health care. They would be able to explain to him what the bill contains.
I don’t think reading the 1500 pages front to back would do anybody (including the Senator) any good. As I said before, a person would be lucky to remember 10% of it. Besides, I understand these bills are not written in English, but in ‘legalese’, so average person wouldn’t’ understand the language anyway (it would be even more difficult for a Senator).
So I don’t think understanding can be achieved by reading the bill from beginning to end.
That is right. Senate will pass one bill, House will pass another bill, then it will go to the joint committee, where they will work out a compromise. That again will have to be voted in both houses. So what is presented in the Senate may be much different from the final bill.
As to the public option, it seems to be dead once again, Senator Lieberman has indicated that he will filibuster any public option (he was one of the 60 votes needed to apses it).
Just don't get it do you, they are paid to do a job, and could care less about it. Playing with their computer with one hand while bankrupting the country with the other. Yes, I expect every one of those lazy representatives to read it before voting on it. If we will have to live with a plan they will not use then at least they can read it. I had to read more than that at times in my life for my job, or lives would have been lost.
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Really? Which job was it that required you to read a 1500 page book and memorize what you read?
It's not a case of memorizing it, it's a case of reading it and trying to understand it. Politicians who vote on legislation they have not read should be booted from office.
But the fact that congress have exempted themselves from it is completely suspect to say the least. Because of that fact alone, it doesn't even matter whether they read it or not because as far as they're concerned, it simply doesn't apply to them. So what if they have a responsibility to read it. Did they read the patriot act? Either way, it doesn't matter because it went through anyway.
What the Americans should do is tell them to stick the 1500 page document where the sun don't shine and send them back to the drawing board. OR better yet, demand that the people get the same healthcare that those in gov get. The whole debacle is transparent and goes to show that unfortunately, yet predictably, Obama is just another gov robot.
So you've got this. Now add to it the fact that (I read somewhere, might have been discussed on this forum) that the presidents kids are not getting the H1N1 vaccination and you've got an extremely ominous picture being painted. Regardless if this piece of info is true or not. There is clearly a double standard happening here.
I just want to say that after what their gov has put the American people through over the recent years, I don't think that the gov should get any kind of preferential treatment whatsoever. And regardless that it is now in the hands of the democrats it should be trying to prove itself worthy of the American people instead of making itself look like it is above them. This 1500 page bill, no matter what they do next, is still an insult to the people if their own arrogant congress won't sign up for it. Period!
What the Americans should do is tell them to stick the 1500 page document where the sun don't shine and send them back to the drawing board. OR better yet, demand that the people get the same healthcare that those in gov get. The whole debacle is transparent and goes to show that unfortunately, yet predictably, Obama is just another gov robot.
So you've got this. Now add to it the fact that (I read somewhere, might have been discussed on this forum) that the presidents kids are not getting the H1N1 vaccination and you've got an extremely ominous picture being painted. Regardless if this piece of info is true or not. There is clearly a double standard happening here.
I just want to say that after what their gov has put the American people through over the recent years, I don't think that the gov should get any kind of preferential treatment whatsoever. And regardless that it is now in the hands of the democrats it should be trying to prove itself worthy of the American people instead of making itself look like it is above them. This 1500 page bill, no matter what they do next, is still an insult to the people if their own arrogant congress won't sign up for it. Period!
I have a question, probably rhetorical, but I would still like to see what kind of answers people come up with.
Why does it seem that the American gov doesn't want to give the people what they need? It is quite clear that the middle and lower class need some serious help. Why can't their elected gov just give it to them?
Why does it seem that the American gov doesn't want to give the people what they need? It is quite clear that the middle and lower class need some serious help. Why can't their elected gov just give it to them?
Good question, wish I had a answer for you. The middle and lower class's have been supporting the goverment (with their lives and labors) far out of proportion to what they get back. As for SirJoseph, he just doesn't get it.
EXACTLY! Congress ALWAYS pulls this garbage...both sides of the aisles.
That is why they can criss cross the country and globe on fact finding missions and conferences in Paris, Bermuda, Hawaii, etc all on the publics dime yet prohibit other government employees from doing so. A network called a congessman on the massive amounts of trips he took to incredible places all paid for by the taxpayers and that boob said...
"My constituents want me to take all these trips."
Yeah right.
One member wanted Congress to take the Congressional Exempt out of the Health Care Proposal and was pretty much scoffed at.
One member wanted Congress to take the Congressional Exempt out of the Health Care Proposal and was pretty much scoffed at.
That one member then needs to find support elsewhere. I'm pretty sure that millions of Americans would support him if he asked for it. And even if he lost his job he would then have 90% of the nation watching. And possibly other nations would be watching too. But without the eyes watching, he goes and the stand he made goes without recognition. Kinda like it never happened.
Unfortunately, it seems that what Obama has at his disposal is the unwillingness of the people to watch the history that they think they made by him getting into office go down the tubes. It's like they don't want to be wrong and they seem willing to give him too much of a chance just because of the fact he is has historical value.
The sad part is what has happened. The uncool guy with the unpopular opinion gets ignored even though he was willing to speak for that 90% of Americans. The people need to act like the democracy that they are.
Look at France. When a group in their society isn't getting the support they need they do something about it. It's not about rioting and destruction because God knows that's what the gov is waiting for but it's about taking a stand. Recently Oct 16: the farmers in France are in desperate need of gov support. Alot of the funding was going every where else but to agriculture. So what did the farmers do? They burned tires in the Champs Elisees in protest. The Champs Elisees is a consumer district full of posh stores and expensive shops.
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/10/16/world/international-france-farmers.html
Or look at Ukraine's Orange Revolution where Ukrainians staged a peaceful protest in Kiev, the country's capital, due to a corrupted election.
Orange Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
They say that just 2 years later the Ukrainians were left feeling disillusioned and not happy in the end due to a lack of radical change, less than what the population had hoped for, even though the country was doing quite well.
Two years after the Orange revolution: Ukraine in a funk | open Democracy News Analysis
What can be learned? Maybe they were expecting more than their gov could give them or maybe they got impatient or maybe they didn't keep up the active role of being a democracy. Either way democracy is a populations responsibility and it is something that no country has mastered, at least not yet! So there is still so much about it that needs to be learned and discovered. But none of that will happen unless people try. But one thing is for sure and is a lesson for us all: If you don't use it, you lose it!
America needs to get her confidence back, after all, how would you feel if everyone turned their backs on you.
That one member then needs to find support elsewhere. I'm pretty sure that millions of Americans would support him if he asked for it. And even if he lost his job he would then have 90% of the nation watching. And possibly other nations would be watching too. But without the eyes watching, he goes and the stand he made goes without recognition. Kinda like it never happened.
Unfortunately, it seems that what Obama has at his disposal is the unwillingness of the people to watch the history that they think they made by him getting into office go down the tubes. It's like they don't want to be wrong and they seem willing to give him too much of a chance just because of the fact he is has historical value.
The sad part is what has happened. The uncool guy with the unpopular opinion gets ignored even though he was willing to speak for that 90% of Americans. The people need to act like the democracy that they are.
Look at France. When a group in their society isn't getting the support they need they do something about it. It's not about rioting and destruction because God knows that's what the gov is waiting for but it's about taking a stand. Recently Oct 16: the farmers in France are in desperate need of gov support. Alot of the funding was going every where else but to agriculture. So what did the farmers do? They burned tires in the Champs Elisees in protest. The Champs Elisees is a consumer district full of posh stores and expensive shops.
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/10/16/world/international-france-farmers.html
Or look at Ukraine's Orange Revolution where Ukrainians staged a peaceful protest in Kiev, the country's capital, due to a corrupted election.
Orange Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
They say that just 2 years later the Ukrainians were left feeling disillusioned and not happy in the end due to a lack of radical change, less than what the population had hoped for, even though the country was doing quite well.
Two years after the Orange revolution: Ukraine in a funk | open Democracy News Analysis
What can be learned? Maybe they were expecting more than their gov could give them or maybe they got impatient or maybe they didn't keep up the active role of being a democracy. Either way democracy is a populations responsibility and it is something that no country has mastered, at least not yet! So there is still so much about it that needs to be learned and discovered. But none of that will happen unless people try. But one thing is for sure and is a lesson for us all: If you don't use it, you lose it!
America needs to get her confidence back, after all, how would you feel if everyone turned their backs on you.
Lieberman stands on pinciples when it's expedient to do so. He wants to be placated. The Dems will have to do so.
Senator Lieberman is probably the most upstanding individual in any goverment that I am aware of. To bad he could not get the support needed to run for President. If he says the Public Option is wrong, or needs something added or removed, then it must be.
Have you not considered that Lieberman is poking the Democrats in the eye? It's not exactly top secret information that Lieberman was furious over the betrayal he felt, after losing the primary bid in '06.
The public option is weak. The majority of Americans support a public option, but only a minority will be eligible. If it costs you more than 12.5% of your income to purchase a plan, you're eligible. If you have employer based coverage, you're ineligible. If you're covered by Medicare, or Veterans Administration, you're ineligible. It's basically an option to give coverage to the 10% of Americans who don't have it.
What has Lieberman actually said about the reform of health care, besides his intention to filibuster any bill which includes a public option?
The public option is weak. The majority of Americans support a public option, but only a minority will be eligible. If it costs you more than 12.5% of your income to purchase a plan, you're eligible. If you have employer based coverage, you're ineligible. If you're covered by Medicare, or Veterans Administration, you're ineligible. It's basically an option to give coverage to the 10% of Americans who don't have it.
What has Lieberman actually said about the reform of health care, besides his intention to filibuster any bill which includes a public option?