I see what your saying and have been saying the whole time. but the oil sands project was allowed to over expand faster then it was intended to. Good for your pockets, but bad for the environemnt. In the link i included it even says the Albertan government hasnt enough information on the environemnt to be allowing an almost uncontrolled growth...
U.S. ambassador in Alberta to learn about oilsands
- Thread starter Johnnny
- Start date
A strip mine that consumes huge amounts of water, and dumps sludge into massive ponds which seep and ooze crap into the river, while leaving massive ponds of sludgy water to sit for years.
Not even, if forest was there before, forest goes back, have you been to fort mac? or some of the rest of the places that the oil patch works in? lol ... the land is crap half the time. and like Kakato said, getting rid of stuff that prevents growth helps a lot.
I never said you or anyone else don't care. I'm asking a simple question.
The answer that both you and Kakato gave me is based on human evaluation of what is better. A judgment call.
Is it better to have a uniform landscape, or to have niches like productive valleys and specialized forests?
You haven't actually answered the question of how that is better. Reclamation is supposed to be returning the land to it's pre-development condition. Not what some company or government bureaucrat thinks is better.
It's allways put back as close to original as possible,I took lots of before and after pics of my jobs,in most you cant tell anyone has been there after a week.
The oilsands are contained in one area,thats one thing about open pit mines of any kind,they produce lots of dollars over many years and basically have a small footprint because they stay in one spot,now clear cut logging on the other hand is way more damaging to the environment.
like when the lumber companies in BC decided to plant every square inch with lodge pole pine after everything was clear cut ? Look where that led us
? so there is some divine interpretation of whats better?
I am stating it is better than we found it. Sure I killed a few earth worms, sorry...
so we redo it to pre-dev conditions, and then in my interpretation of what would be better, i do so...
how does nature know any better? earthquake, floods, volcanoes all change the land drastically to, and its all random, not thought out...
I am stating it is better than we found it. Sure I killed a few earth worms, sorry...
so we redo it to pre-dev conditions, and then in my interpretation of what would be better, i do so...
how does nature know any better? earthquake, floods, volcanoes all change the land drastically to, and its all random, not thought out...
When I did reclamation in the BC open pit mines it didnt go back the same but thats because you took half a mountain down.I was told to use my imagination,leave some small hills and cover for the animals,artistic landscaping we called it.
The main thing is water and erosion so you contour to hold water.
Things dont allways go back the same but thats the goal you shoot for on any project.
like when the lumber companies in BC decided to plant every square inch with lodge pole pine after everything was clear cut ? Look where that led us
The environuts should have let them harvest the mature pine in the old watersheds,they didnt and nature took over.
those arent random events, floodplains get flooded, subduction zones have volcanoes, earthquakes form along shear zones.....
Im leaving off on this topic sticking by with what i said, and saying that we need more leadership from the government... cause honestly who likes hearing that the government didnt do all its research on the topic till after the fact?
Thats why in Alberta we do the research through the private sector as well as the govt.
We dont trust them either.:lol:
I worked there back in the sixties and I re-visited the tar sand two years ago and the place is bloody disaster. Huge toxic tailing ponds that are probably leaching into the Athabasca river. The damn place should be shut down now, cleaned up and started fresh under new rules. This is too important to be left to the oil companies.
look i appreciate that this thread hasnt decsended into the typical madness lets keep it up. Id like to see a thread seriously talked about that doesnt involve obama and resort to name calling..
You don't have to see the studies. You just have to read. If the dam around just one of the tailing ponds burst, we would forget all about the Exxon Valdez because this would be a thousand times worse.
For each gallon of crude we get, we throw away two and a half gallons of clean water. The project is a disaster from start to finish.
Here's one to start with, it's from Fort Chipewyan.
http://www.borealbirds.org/resources/timoney-fortchipwater-111107.pdf
Ive built a few settling ponds and they are built to withstand earthquakes now.Compaction tests are done every deck laid down and plastic liners are also installed on top of the impermeable clay layer.
Ive read up quite a bit on it but mostly from the industrys side and its mostly all about being more efficient and producing less waste which also means more profits.
Theres a couple good unbiased articles in one of my magazines about the settling ponds and whats being done about them,they werent as bad as I thought.If I can get the article online without a subscription then ill post it.
Most water is recycled and reused in the extraction process and its getting more efficient also.
I'm reading through a few studys and it looks like theres a fair amount of people accused of contaminating the water besides shell and suncor.
It's also more then just one river if you read through the one page ill post.
It gets pretty complex.
NRBS Recommendations 13-24 - Government Response to Northern River Basins Study - Alberta Environment
It's also more then just one river if you read through the one page ill post.
It gets pretty complex.
NRBS Recommendations 13-24 - Government Response to Northern River Basins Study - Alberta Environment
To say the government isnt doing enough is to ignore the facts.
Summary of Actions - Government Response to Northern River Basins Study - Alberta Environment
Summary of Actions - Government Response to Northern River Basins Study - Alberta Environment