Enough farting around on Iran & Nukes

Iran should have Nuke Weapons


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MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
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Red Deer AB
Coming from you, that is absolutely hilarious. I hold them to the same standard. You, on the other hand, obviously don't.

Do you hear anything from Iran concerning the equipment the US gives Israel while Israel can/does complain to Russia when Iran wants to purchase a defensive system? This is from 2007 and they even sent people to Russia in the hopes of aborting the sale. lol

"Vice Chairman of Russia's State Duma Vladimir Zhirinovsky has urged the fast delivery of the magnificent S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems to Iran.

Speaking at the open session of Russia's State Duma on Wednesday, Zhirinovsky stated, "S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems should be delivered as soon as possible to enable Iran to defend its airspace."

The S-400 is a new generation of anti-aircraft/anti-missile weapon system developed by the Russian Almaz Central Design Bureau.

The S-400 is capable of detecting and destroying targets out to a range of 400km (250 miles), such as aircrafts, cruise missiles and ballistic missiles, including those with a range of 3,500 km.

Sources confirm that the S-400 is capable of detecting and destroying aircraft made with low observable materials such as the American 'stealth' aircraft.

Russia provided Belarus with the same system a short time ago.

The S-400 is so sophisticated and powerful that it can change the military balance of a region since it is capable of hitting targets previously considered untouchable.

The anti missile system has the incredible speed of 4.8 km per second which is faster than a bullet leaving a Kalashnikov machine gun. "

Why not just zip their lips on issues like this, none of their business what Iran buys...unless you had plans to invade with those very things it targets.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
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I find it interesting that some people don't think that an enemy of the US should be afforded the same rights as a friend of the US. Why should one country be equipped with weapons of aggression while it enemies should be restricted in its ability to defend its own people. People form their opinions and prejudices based of half truths and outright lies and think they are informed opinions.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
99
48
Alberta
I find it interesting that some people don't think that an enemy of the US should be afforded the same rights as a friend of the US.

It has nothing to do with whether or not they are a friend of the US or not. I'm somewhat surprised that even you can't seem to grasp that rather simple concept. The main issue with Iran is that they do not even want to coexist with their neighbor let alone do it peacefully. They have made it quite clear that they want to destroy Israel. On the flip side, Israel does not want to destroy Iran. Iran does not deserve these "rights".
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
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Red Deer AB
Yes, in fact, US involvement in the region has always been a bone of contention with Iran....your point?
Really, the US had much influence with the leaders of Iran from 1953-1977, not the best record for no abuses of it's citizens. Seems almost universal, when the US has influence the very first department established is a 'secret police' that is above all laws. The people start to go missing. lol ...that point .

Who has been exercising contentious power, the US through continuous sanctions.

The ones you defend are the OT Israel and the NT Christian's right? Since they act quite differently when gathered than when they are wayward which role are they playing these years?

Quite frankly when they are up to things like this, they belong in a humane prison....
M't:26:4: And consulted that they might take Jesus by subtilty, and kill him.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Coming from you, that is absolutely hilarious. I hold them to the same standard. You, on the other hand, obviously don't.

Perhaps you'd like to comment on this Haaretz (Israeli News) story:

Gazans detained in 'giant pit' during Cast Lead
By Amira Hass

Forty Palestinians from the Gaza Strip were incarcerated in Israel Prison Service facilities during Operation Cast Lead at the beginning of this year, and 21 are still in prison. That's a very small number, compared to the many hundreds the Israel Defense Forces arrested in Gaza, and as compared with the hundreds who were transferred for interrogation to various detention facilities in Israel before being released.

Samir al-Attar, 38, is one of the 40; his eldest son Hussein, 13, spent three days together in a makeshift prison. The father was then placed on a truck and the son was released. "Is the boy still traumatized by the arrest?" the father was asked this week by telephone. "Not all that much," he replied. "What Hussein saw when he was let out made him forget the ordeal of the arrest."

Separated from his father, the boy started to walk home. Their neighborhood was empty, many of the houses had been destroyed or were riddled with bullet holes, and the fields, groves and hothouses were leveled. The sound of shelling accompanied Hussein all the time; an Israeli sniper could be lurking behind every window.

"The boy reached our house. All the windows were smashed. He did not find anyone and thought they had all been killed - his mother, his grandmother and his five brothers and sisters," Samir related.

Frightened and virtually alone in a ghost town, the boy wandered about aimlessly. It was not until the following day that he ran into a relative, who led him four kilometers by foot to a school where his family had taken shelter. "That fear," his father says, "is still eating him."

The mass arrests did not become a major topic of conversation in the Gaza Strip: Uncertainty about the fate of loved ones and shock at the scale of the killing and destruction overshadowed the experience of being detained.

Samir himself was released only two and a half months after being arrested. A farmer, who before being arrested supplemented his income by serving as a driver for Kamal Shrafi, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' adviser on human rights (and a former member of the Palestinian Legislative Council).

On Monday, January 5, IDF soldiers had already begun to shoot directly at Samir al-Attar's home and not just around it. He and his family fled. His wife waved a white cloth; he held their sons of 5 and 7 in his arms. He spotted 50 soldiers in front of the house. The soldiers ordered them to put their hands up. The soldiers fired between their legs, al-Attar said on the phone this week, then one searched him. One hand was handcuffed to Hussein's hand, and the two were then blindfolded and taken to a neighboring house, along with another 10 detainees.

"The soldiers treated us well in the house, but did not give us food or water, and let us use the toilet only once," Samir stated in an affidavit he submitted on January 14 in Ketziot, to attorney Maher Talhami from the Public Committee against Torture in Israel (PCAT).

At 5 P.M. the two were taken, again on foot, in a convoy, still blindfolded and handcuffed to each other, to an area in which the IDF had massed tanks and bulldozers. This is called a "defensive zone" in army lingo - a jora (hole) by residents, and a "dugout" by the PCAT. It was a man-made crater of about two dunams (half an acre), two to three meters deep and surrounded by mounds of the sand that had been removed to create it, which rose up to three meters high - "higher than the bulldozers," al-Attar said on Wednesday. Previously the site had been a vegetable patch.

It was beginning to get dark, but there was a little light from the tank headlights. "The tanks were then firing shells at Beit Lahiya," al-Attar stated in the affidavit. At the soldiers' order, the prisoners descended carefully, holding on to one another, their eyes still covered. In the crater, the soldiers handcuffed his son separately. There were already detainees there, and more arrived during the next two days. When his group arrived, the soldiers enclosed them with concertina wire.

"Not until Tuesday morning did they give every two people a single blanket, against the bitter cold," al-Attar told Talhami. "We were handcuffed during the whole period and sat on the sand." (Their eyes were covered, too, he would say on the phone - a detail he had forgotten to add in the affidavit. Occasionally they shifted the strip of flannel a little so they could see.) "The soldiers gave us food (pita and mortadella sausage) once or twice a day. We would ask for water and sometimes they would bring it long after." ("Another five minutes, they would say, and bring it two or three hours later," he explained on the phone.) "There was no toilet there and we were not given sanitary products such as toilet paper."

When someone could no longer hold himself in, he moved away and relieved himself. People who wanted to pray also moved to the side but, al-Attar said on the phone, no one dared to kneel in front of the soldiers, because "the fear was great." The soldiers - on the other side of the concertina wire, where there were also dogs - shouted at the detainees to shut them up when they heard them talking.

Al-Attar: "The tanks were 10 meters from us and they shelled and fired day and night. Even if we had wanted to, we could not sleep because of the noise, the cold and the fear. I hugged Hussein and told him not to be afraid, that it would all be over in a day or two, that we would not die. But inside I was terribly worried. There were four women and 10 children under the age of 14 with us. They were also handcuffed and blindfolded."....

Amira Hass / Gazans detained in 'giant pit' during Cast Lead - Haaretz - Israel News
According to your "standards" does this treatment of civilians (men, women, children) constitute a war crime?
 
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earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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So has Israel made any announcements that Iran doesn't exist and shouldn't be on a map of the world?
Anyway, getting back to the topic (which isn't about bashing Israel) I don't think ANY country should have nuclear weaponry. As far as that goes, I don't think any country should have to have weaponry period, but some people are just antisocial and make others require weaponry.

The topic is Iran and nukes. But the US and Israel's possession of nukes, their threats to attack Iran and their long list of war crimes and crimes against humanity are factors regarding whether or not Iran should possess nukes. So much of the above is fair game.

I don't think Iran should possess nukes nor do I believe they need them to defend themselves. Iran's missiles tipped with conventional weapons is a sufficient deterrent. I doubt the US or Israel can afford to take on Iran.

Also AnnaG, you appear to have accepted popular anti-Iranian misinformation as fact. I suggest you consider this interview where Ahmadinejad is asked directly:

.....

TIME: Does Iran have the right to nuclear weapons?
Ahmadinejad: We are opposed to nuclear weapons. We think it has been developed just to kill human beings. It is not in the service of human beings. For that reason, last year in my address to the U.N. General Assembly, I suggested that a committee should be set up in order to disarm all the countries that possess nuclear weapons.
TIME: But you were attacked with weapons of mass destruction by Iraq. You say the u.s. threatens you, and you are surrounded by countries that have nuclear weapons.
Ahmadinejad: Today nuclear weapons are a blunt instrument. We don't have any problems with Pakistan or India. Actually they are friends of Iran, and throughout history they have been friends. The Zionist regime is not capable of using nuclear weapons. Problems cannot be solved through bombs. Bombs are of little use today. We need logic.
TIME: Why won't you agree to suspend enrichment of uranium as a confidence-building measure?
Ahmadinejad: Whose confidence should be built?
TIME: The world's?
Ahmadinejad: The world? The world? Who is the world? The United States? The U.S. Administration is not the entire world. Europe does not account for one-twentieth of the entire world. When I studied the provisions of the npt [Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty], nowhere did I see it written that in order to produce nuclear fuel, we need to win the support or the confidence of the United States and some European countries.
TIME: How far will Iran go in defying Western demands? Will you wait until you are attacked and your nuclear installations are destroyed?
Ahmadinejad: Do you think the u.s. administration would be so irrational?
TIME: You tell me.
Ahmadinejad: I hope that is not the case. I said that we need logic. We do not need attacks.
TIME: Are you worried about an attack?
Ahmadinejad: No.
TIME: You have been quoted as saying Israel should be wiped off the map. Was that merely rhetoric, or do you mean it?
Ahmadinejad: People in the world are free to think the way they wish. We do not insist they should change their views. Our position toward the Palestinian question is clear: we say that a nation has been displaced from its own land. Palestinian people are killed in their own lands, by those who are not original inhabitants, and they have come from far areas of the world and have occupied those homes. Our suggestion is that the 5 million Palestinian refugees come back to their homes, and then the entire people on those lands hold a referendum and choose their own system of government. This is a democratic and popular way. Do you have any other suggestions?
TIME: Do you believe the Jewish people have a right to their own state?
Ahmadinejad: We do not oppose it. In any country in which the people are ready to vote for the Jews to come to power, it is up to them. In our country, the Jews are living and they are represented in our Parliament. But Zionists are different from Jews.
TIME: Have you considered that Iranian Jews are hurt by your comments denying that 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust?
Ahmadinejad: As to the Holocaust, I just raised a few questions. And I didn't receive any answers to my questions. I said that during World War II, around 60 million were killed. All were human beings and had their own dignities. Why only 6 million? And if it had happened, then it is a historical event. Then why do they not allow independent research?
TIME: But massive research has been done.
Ahmadinejad: They put in prison those who try to do research. About historical events everybody should be free to conduct research. Let's assume that it has taken place. Where did it take place? So what is the fault of the Palestinian people? These questions are quite clear. We are waiting for answers....


http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1535777-2,00.html
I recommend that you consider this detailed analysis of what Ahmadinejad said in context:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm


de·ceive (d
-s
v
)
v. de·ceived, de·ceiv·ing, de·ceives
v.tr.1. To cause to believe what is not true; mislead.

mis·lead (m
s-l
d
)tr.v. mis·led (-l
d
), mis·lead·ing, mis·leads
1. To lead in the wrong direction.
2. To lead into error of thought or action, especially by intentionally deceiving. See Synonyms at deceive.
 
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ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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Has Israel asked anything more from anybody other than for the right to exist peacefully? Any Palestinian land they possess since becoming a state is land won by them in wars that the Arabs instigated. Those lands are by the right of arms now Israelis. No need to give anything back until all the Arab states agree to leave them alone. All Iran has to do is officially recognize Israel's right to exist, and for the most part this crisis is over. But since certain Muslim groups do not recognize international borders when it comes to this holy war they are conducting Israel is not and will not be the only country in danger.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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Iran is the most instable country in the world next to North Korea. We do not need any more nuclear suicide bombers in the world than we now have. They are run by a unstable religion, and no country that relies so much on their religion, a religion that is meant to dominate the world can be trusted with anything. Wonder how many Russian nuclear weapons that were lost are in Arab hands. The ones the U.S. lost and are still lost cannot be used if found.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
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Saint John, N.B.
I find it interesting that some people don't think that an enemy of the US should be afforded the same rights as a friend of the US. Why should one country be equipped with weapons of aggression while it enemies should be restricted in its ability to defend its own people. People form their opinions and prejudices based of half truths and outright lies and think they are informed opinions.

:roll:

Because they have repeatedly advocated the use of nuclear weapons to destroy Israel.

Because they are lunatics. If you don't think so, go live there for awhile.....It is fine for you to sit in your comfy chair and openly spout libertarian philosophy and support for libertine lifestyles (which is your right, in fact I agree with much)......but I do NOT understand how you can equate a free nation, in fact the leader of the free world, with a nation that is their sworn enemy, and that would hang you in a millisecond were you living under their rule.

It is US and THEM.......FAIR has nothing to do with it. Anything else is suicide, idiocy......just plain stupid.

You remind me of the English guy in the Dark Ages....had an impregnable castle, was attacked by the Danes........who complained about the unfair advantage he enjoyed, and invited him to come outside for a fair fight.

The idiot did, and lost, and was killed and his castle taken, his family butchered. Thus raising the average IQ in the area by several points.

If you enjoy your lifestyle, and understand its advantages, you must be prepared to defend it against your enemies, in the long view.........and that means denying them the means to de-stabilize and threaten the west.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
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48
:roll:

Because they have repeatedly advocated the use of nuclear weapons to destroy Israel...

Link please. Iran has never threatened to nuke Israel.

If you want to know what people actually said, you should read their words directly rather than relying on the MSM claims which in the case of Iran's leaders are often complete fabrications.

Here is a Time magazine interview where Ahmadinejad answers questions about Israel directly:

.....

TIME: Does Iran have the right to nuclear weapons?
Ahmadinejad: We are opposed to nuclear weapons. We think it has been developed just to kill human beings. It is not in the service of human beings. For that reason, last year in my address to the U.N. General Assembly, I suggested that a committee should be set up in order to disarm all the countries that possess nuclear weapons.
TIME: But you were attacked with weapons of mass destruction by Iraq. You say the u.s. threatens you, and you are surrounded by countries that have nuclear weapons.
Ahmadinejad: Today nuclear weapons are a blunt instrument. We don't have any problems with Pakistan or India. Actually they are friends of Iran, and throughout history they have been friends. The Zionist regime is not capable of using nuclear weapons. Problems cannot be solved through bombs. Bombs are of little use today. We need logic.
TIME: Why won't you agree to suspend enrichment of uranium as a confidence-building measure?
Ahmadinejad: Whose confidence should be built?
TIME: The world's?
Ahmadinejad: The world? The world? Who is the world? The United States? The U.S. Administration is not the entire world. Europe does not account for one-twentieth of the entire world. When I studied the provisions of the npt [Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty], nowhere did I see it written that in order to produce nuclear fuel, we need to win the support or the confidence of the United States and some European countries.
TIME: How far will Iran go in defying Western demands? Will you wait until you are attacked and your nuclear installations are destroyed?
Ahmadinejad: Do you think the u.s. administration would be so irrational?
TIME: You tell me.
Ahmadinejad: I hope that is not the case. I said that we need logic. We do not need attacks.
TIME: Are you worried about an attack?
Ahmadinejad: No.
TIME: You have been quoted as saying Israel should be wiped off the map. Was that merely rhetoric, or do you mean it?
Ahmadinejad: People in the world are free to think the way they wish. We do not insist they should change their views. Our position toward the Palestinian question is clear: we say that a nation has been displaced from its own land. Palestinian people are killed in their own lands, by those who are not original inhabitants, and they have come from far areas of the world and have occupied those homes. Our suggestion is that the 5 million Palestinian refugees come back to their homes, and then the entire people on those lands hold a referendum and choose their own system of government. This is a democratic and popular way. Do you have any other suggestions?
TIME: Do you believe the Jewish people have a right to their own state?
Ahmadinejad: We do not oppose it. In any country in which the people are ready to vote for the Jews to come to power, it is up to them. In our country, the Jews are living and they are represented in our Parliament. But Zionists are different from Jews.
TIME: Have you considered that Iranian Jews are hurt by your comments denying that 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust?
Ahmadinejad: As to the Holocaust, I just raised a few questions. And I didn't receive any answers to my questions. I said that during World War II, around 60 million were killed. All were human beings and had their own dignities. Why only 6 million? And if it had happened, then it is a historical event. Then why do they not allow independent research?
TIME: But massive research has been done.
Ahmadinejad: They put in prison those who try to do research. About historical events everybody should be free to conduct research. Let's assume that it has taken place. Where did it take place? So what is the fault of the Palestinian people? These questions are quite clear. We are waiting for answers....

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1535777-2,00.html

Also you frequently misquote Ahmadinejad as saying that he wants to "wipe Israel off the map". This webpage objectively analyzes Ahmadinejad's what Ahmadinejad said.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm

The "wipe off the map" quote is about as accurate as the MSM's 2003 claims about Iraq's WMD stockpiles.

I'm making an assumption here that you actually want a fact based opinion.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
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Link please. Iran has never threatened to nuke Israel.

If you want to know what people actually said, you should read their words directly rather than relying on the MSM claims which in the case of Iran's leaders are often complete fabrications.

Here is a Time magazine interview where Ahmadinejad answers questions about Israel directly:


Also you frequently misquote Ahmadinejad as saying that he wants to "wipe Israel off the map". This webpage objectively analyzes Ahmadinejad's what Ahmadinejad said.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm

The "wipe off the map" quote is about as accurate as the MSM's 2003 claims about Iraq's WMD stockpiles.

I'm making an assumption here that you actually want a fact based opinion.


EAO
Of course we should believe ImaNutJob - After all the Holocaust is a myth in fact?- He is correct? Right -
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
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If the following is a proper quote and translation from Farsi to English and it is how could what Ahmadinejad said mean anything other than killing those who support Israel and occupancy Jerusalem people are going to die.
I do respect Prof. Juan Cole as a expert in his field.

"As most of my readers know, Ahmadinejad did not use that phrase in Persian. He quoted an old saying of Ayatollah Khomeini calling for 'this occupation regime over Jerusalem" to "vanish from the page of time.' Calling for a regime to vanish is not the same as calling for people to be killed. Ahmadinejad has not to my knowledge called for anyone to be killed."

Ahmadinejad: "I am not anti-Semitic - Palestinians should Decide on Two-State Solution | Atlantic Free Press - Hard Truths for Hard Times
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
Then why must you post your Joo-hating propaganda here. Go to that thread and post til you ejaculate.

Just like I figured. Israeli apologists will never admit Israel has committed war crimes or crimes against humanity no matter how blatant, well documented or how impeccable the source.

When pressed with facts supported by evidence, they hide behind false accusations of anti-Semiticism and insults.

By the way, here are links to the Amnesty International and UN fact finding reports reports again:

Amnesty International
Israel/Gaza: Operation "Cast Lead": 22 days of death and destruction
Israel/Gaza: Operation "Cast Lead": 22 days of death and destruction | Amnesty International

....
Amnesty International won the 1977 Nobel Peace Prize
Amnesty International - Nobel Lecture

Amnesty International is a worldwide movement of people who campaign for internationally recognized human rights for all.

Our supporters are outraged by human rights abuses but inspired by hope for a better world - so we work to improve human rights through campaigning and international solidarity.

We have more than 2.2 million members and subscribers in more than 150 countries and regions and we coordinate this support to act for justice on a wide range of issues.
Who We Are | Amnesty International

Report of the United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict
http://unispal.un.org/pdfs/AHRC1248.pdfhttp://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/5...25184e52d3e5cdba8525763200532e73?OpenDocument

The above fact finding mission was headed by Justice Richard Goldstone. He is Jewish and a Zionist no less...

...Nicole Goldstone, the daughter of Richard Goldstone, whose report on Operation Cast Lead alleged that Israel committed war crimes in Gaza, maintained on Wednesday that her father "is a Zionist and loves Israel."

Speaking from Toronto, where she now lives, Nicole told Army Radio she had many conversations with her father after he was asked to head the UN inquiry.

"I know better than anyone else that he thought however hard it was to accept it, he was doing the best thing for everyone, including Israel," she said. "He is honest, tells things how he sees them and wants to uncover the truth."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1251804583376&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

Also highly qualified and internationally respected for being fair and honest.