More the Marry in Bountiful, BC

[AnnaG]

Then you are against underage marriage, forced marriages and exploitation. All of these issues are side issues to plural marriage between consenting adults. If you read the above posts you will see many people who oppose plural marriages are really against these other things. Its not different than people who oppose same sex marriage and they justify their position by arguing against men having sex with children, which is another issue.

I thought I was pretty clear. Let me say it again. I am not against someone having multiple spouses if the informed consent is there. I am against sex-slavery and old men marrying children, and human trafficking. If you read back I said that the Crown was idiotic in going for polygamy charges instead of offenses I mentioned. If they didn't have enough to charge Blackmore and others with sex-slavery, human trafficking, etc. then they should have held off until they could. This polygamy stuff is a waste of investigative time and taxpayers' money. It's frivolous and it has the wrong focus.

In this case, Blackmore married four girls who were 15 at the time. His relationships with these young people from the time they were married until 18 was only legal if the parents and the girls consented and Blackthorn isn't in a position of trust or authority. Since Blackthorn is the community's religious leader, he is an authority and he could have been charged with rape. If these women are older than 18 now and consent to their relationship, then its too late.

He could only be charged with rape if he had sex with them. And no, it isn't too late; in Canada there's no "statute of limitations" on offenses more serious than "summary" offenses.

The government should charge polygamists who marry young people under 18 with both polygamy and rape. The rape charges could stick, depending on the situation and testimony. At a minimum the rape charges would cause the polygamous communities to stop authorizing underage marriages, which most people agree is a problem. The polygamy charges would likely end up in the supreme court where Canada's polygamy law would be struck down as contradicting Canada's Charter and Constitution. Law makers would then have to come up with new laws to protect the legal rights of plural marriage spouses and their children in cases of separation and divorce.

The polygamy thing only might be shot down under the freedom of religion thing because it may be argued that having more than one spouse is not affording those spouses equality. Equality is under the charter, too.

Right now only the first wife and her children have legal rights and I see that as the real issue regarding polygamy.

Fine.

What consenting adults do of their own free will sexually or relationship wise, is their business not mine.

Fine.

 

[#juan]

It didn't surprise me that the BC Supreme Court has dropped charges of Polygamy against Winston Blackmore and James Oler. Once a society has legitimized 'homosexual marriage' it turns that institution into a joke. It has lost all meaning, purpose and focus and simply becomes a superficial affirmation of any form of sexual gratification.

The fact that this incorporates a sick exploitation of adolescent girls, raised, denied education, indoctrinated by fear of divine retribution from birth to be sexual toys of dissolute and decrepit old men like Blackmore and Oler holds no resonance to a society where the legal protections for sexual exploitation hold sway over all structural and religious considerations.

I tend to agree with coldstream. If we approve same sex marriage, where can we draw the line? After that the law against Bigamy is looking a little watered down. If a man can give his 15 year old daughter to a sixty year old man for political favors, Any justice or decency, if there ever was any, went down the toilet.

 

[AnnaG]

It didn't surprise me that the BC Supreme Court has dropped charges of Polygamy against Winston Blackmore and James Oler. Once a society has legitimized 'homosexual marriage' it turns that institution into a joke. It has lost all meaning, purpose and focus and simply becomes a superficial affirmation of any form of sexual gratification.

Yep everything on the planet has gone down the crapper. Might as well shoot yourself now, Mr. Stream.

The fact that this incorporates a sick exploitation of adolescent girls, raised, denied education, indoctrinated by fear of divine retribution from birth to be sexual toys of dissolute and decrepit old men like Blackmore and Oler holds no resonance to a society where the legal protections for sexual exploitation hold sway over all structural and religious considerations.

Excuse me? Fact? Denied education? I doubt you have met anyone from Bountiful, but I have and those kids speak English properly, are very courteous, they use cells, go to the DQ in Creston, have computers, drive cars, chew gum, etc. If anyone has been denied education concerning Bountiful, it's you, not those kids. And Blackmore is not decrepit. He seems to be in pretty good shape for someone overweight. Oler is in even better shape.
Get your "facts" in shape.

 

[lone wolf]

Why just stop at same-sex marriage? Why not go back to when they made divorce-for-the-hell-of-it legal?

 

[AnnaG]

To the point of deforming the character into a big bowl of jelly, where everything goes if it feels good. No thanks. :roll:

So you'd rather stay a bitter, narrow-minded, misinformed, and extremely prejudiced misanthrope. Cool

 

[coldstream]

Yep everything on the planet has gone down the crapper. Might as well shoot yourself now, Mr. Stream.

Excuse me? Fact? Denied education? I doubt you have met anyone from Bountiful, but I have and those kids speak English properly, are very courteous, they use cells, go to the DQ in Creston, have computers, drive cars, chew gum, etc. If anyone has been denied education concerning Bountiful, it's you, not those kids. And Blackmore is not decrepit. He seems to be in pretty good shape for someone overweight. Oler is in even better shape.
Get your "facts" in shape.

Talk to some of the survivors of Bountiful or other settlements, who escaped with no money, without their children, in fear of their mortal souls, and with an education that ceased at basic reading, writing and arithmetic, just enough to manage household accounts and shop for food.. and btw, apply for welfare, all the money going to 'husband's' bank accounts.. who do extremely well on the public purse. It is the main industry in Bountiful.

You have to admire the American justice system for throwing Cult Leader of the FLDS Warren Jeffs into jail for 20 years for setting up his own harem of teenage girls in Texas, as his 'right'. It's what Blackmore and his ilk deserve.

 

[AnnaG]

Why just stop at same-sex marriage? Why not go back to when they made divorce-for-the-hell-of-it legal?

Yeah. Its easier to divorce (as you say) than to actually work at marriage. Humans are animals, though, and for women, the right partner is simply an intelligent, strong one, who has the ability to make sure offspring survive. For men, it's even simpler, to spread as much of their own DNA around as possible. Where people in societies get mixed up is when they don't realize that what they do harms others or themselves. As far as the rest of morality goes, it is a societal thing subject to which society one is in.

 

[lone wolf]

You have to admire the American justice system for throwing Cult Leader of the FLDS Warren Jeffs into jail for 20 years for setting up his own harem of teenage girls in Texas, as his 'right'. It's what Blackmore and his ilk deserve.

Oddly enough, I believe the same of any cult that uses threats of eternal damnation to extort tithe

 

[AnnaG]

Talk to some of the survivors of Bountiful or other settlements, who escaped with no money, without their children, in fear of their mortal souls, and with an education that ceased at basic reading, writing and arithmetic, just enough to manage household accounts and shop for food.. and btw, apply for welfare, all the money going to 'husband's' bank accounts.. who do extremely well on the public purse. It is the main industry in Bountiful.

Have you? I have talked with people from Bountiful. I live in the region. Do you? Or do you just read newspapers and watch tv?

You have to admire the American justice system for throwing Cult Leader of the FLDS Warren Jeffs into jail for 20 years for setting up his own harem of teenage girls in Texas, as his 'right'. It's what Blackmore and his ilk deserve.

Yes, I agree. If you get your "facts" together, though, Jeffs was convicted for sexual offenses, not polygamy. The Crown's "excuse" for not charging Blackmore with sexual offenses and whatnot is "lack of evidence".

 

[coldstream]

Oddly enough, I believe the same of any cult that uses threats of eternal damnation to extort tithe

We don't allow harems in my religion. A marriage is between one man and one woman to exclusion of all others for life, primarily for the procreation and nurturing of children in a secure and loving environment.

It's worked well for Western Civilization for 2000 years. Who knows where our new 'enlightened' outlook.. that places gratification and exploitation of children as its central premis.. will lead us.

Into the societal crapper, is suppose, to use Anna's somewhat inelegant term. :smile:

 

[FiveParadox]

Re: ‘[H]omosexual [M]arriage’ (Coldstream)

It didn't surprise me that the BC Supreme Court has dropped charges of Polygamy against Winston Blackmore and James Oler. Once a society has legitimized 'homosexual marriage' it turns that institution into a joke. It has lost all meaning, purpose and focus and simply becomes a superficial affirmation of any form of sexual gratification.

‘[H]omosexual marriage’ (love the quotes, by the way, it’s cute) was not only made legitimate by the overwhelming progressive attitudes of Canadians, but also by the superior courts of several of the provinces and territories because the matter of same-sex marriage was one of rights, and fundamental principles of justice. The Honourable the Senate of Canada, and the elected House of Commons, saw to the democratic passage of the Civil Marriage Act. Her Majesty’s Government for Canada has come to terms with the fact that same-sex marriage is now a permanent change to the institution—the sooner that the rest of the conservative movement can do so, the sooner everyone can move on.

The purpose of marriage remains the same: Raising children in a safe, healthy and constructive environment, and celebrating love. Same-sex marriage does nothing to derogate from this purpose; same-sex adoption is just as valuable to society as opposite-sex adoption, and we should very much promote that as many strong parents as possible adopt these kids who do not have homes.

 

[lone wolf]

We don't allow harems in my religion.

What are nuns? Among many in the Sisterhood with whom I have spoken, they consider themselves married to God....

When it comes to messing with kids, I agree with you entirely.

When it comes to debating abstracts about religion, I believe you can be no more right than anyone else.

 

[coldstream]

‘[H]omosexual marriage’ (love the quotes, by the way, it’s cute) was not only made legitimate by the overwhelming progressive attitudes of Canadians, but also by the superior courts of several of the provinces and territories because the matter of same-sex marriage was one of rights, and fundamental principles of justice. The Honourable the Senate of Canada, and the elected House of Commons, saw to the democratic passage of the Civil Marriage Act. Her Majesty’s Government for Canada has come to terms with the fact that same-sex marriage is now a permanent change to the institution—the sooner that the rest of the conservative movement can do so, the sooner everyone can move on.

That doesn't make it right, it just means we're being led by a cabal of amoral idiots.

The purpose of marriage remains the same: Raising children in a safe, healthy and constructive environment, and celebrating love. Same-sex marriage does nothing to derogate from this purpose; same-sex adoption is just as valuable to society as opposite-sex adoption, and we should very much promote that as many strong parents as possible adopt these kids who do not have homes.

Children thrive in real marriages. Placing children in homosexual 'marriages', which by nature are exploitive, ridden with narcissism, confusion, promiscuity and failure of human potential.. and deeply unhappy.. is a form of child abuse.

 

[AnnaG]

What are nuns? Among many in the Sisterhood with whom I have spoken, they consider themselves married to God....

When it comes to messing with kids, I agree with you entirely.

When it comes to debating abstracts about religion, I believe you can be no more right than anyone else.

They're the girls who say, "I'll have nun of that".

 

[lone wolf]

That doesn't make it right, it just means we're being led by a cabal of moral idiots.



Children thrive in real marriages. Placing children in homosexual 'marriages', which by nature are exploitive, ridden with narcissism, confusion, failure of human potential.. and deeply unhappy.. is a form of child abuse.

I think you're a closet queen or you wouldn't keep hijacking threads to display your narrow little mind in denials for all to read....

 

[AnnaG]

That doesn't make it right, it just means we're being led by a cabal of moral idiots.

So?Not everyone has your particular sense of "morals". Two guys (or girls) getting married and enjoying their marriage has no effect on anyone else's marriages. There's no inherent harm to anyone else in society. The only perceived harm is to religious sensibilities. And that isn't all that important because not everyone is religious.

Children thrive in real marriages. Placing children in homosexual 'marriages', which by nature are exploitive, ridden with narcissism, confusion, failure of human potential.. and deeply unhappy.. is a form of child abuse.

Prove it.

 

[coldstream]

I think you're a closet queen or you wouldn't keep hijacking threads to display your narrow little mind in denials for all to read....

I've seen this before. All i can say is that if the worst insult you can toss at me is that i'm a homosexual, then if i was one, i'd be thinking.. with friends like these.. who needs enemies. ;-)

 

[DurkaDurka]

I think a child raised by fire and brimstone Christians is a lot more likely to have a psychological problems down the road when compared to a loving gay couple. I can only imagine the damage down to a child raised in an environment where it goes along hate this, hate that, this is wrong, jesus hates these people, going to burn in hell if you do this etc etc.

Uppity, socially repressive, so-called Christians need to give it up and stop telling people how to live their lives.

 

[lone wolf]

I've seen this before. All i can say is that if the worst insult you can toss at me is that i'm a homosexual, then if i was one, i'd be thinking.. with friends like these.. who needs enemies. ;-)

Do you feel threatened by the observation? Why?

 

[Cliffy]

As a former catholic who was mentally and emotionally damaged by the hate and fear inherent in that religion, I can say with certainty that Catholicism (and any reigion based on the war god of the desert) is child abuse and Coldstream is a classic product of that abuse. Thankfully, years of theropy have cured my of that disease.