That missle sheild was just making Poland a Target... So the russians would say, so it is a good idea its being dropped
When is Poland NOT a target?
Obama betrays Poland and every American
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When is Poland NOT a target?
Ostrich premise, interesting concept. Also Obama being a commie appeaser, hmm never thought of that. How does one appease a dead political philosophy? (at least in that area of the world Vladimir Putin is not a communist, he is a thug as is Obama, the countries are being run like were the mafia)
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Oh no "ostrich" premise here, if someone damaged my house while attempting to strike at someone else they had better be ready to defend themselves, and similarly if I knew someone was being a goof and had good reason to believe someone was gunning for them, I would NOT side with the goof (and probably not with the other party either)
By not having missile bases on their soil, Poland is effectively not siding with the goof in my above example, and also not siding with the other party in the equation. I would think that is neutrality, basically.
And "Obama the Appeaser" was a sarcastic take on what it seemed, to me, was the thrust of the OP- to me, it truly seemed that such a notion was strongly suggested in the OP and I found it kind of hilarious
By not having missile bases on their soil, Poland is effectively not siding with the goof in my above example, and also not siding with the other party in the equation. I would think that is neutrality, basically.
And "Obama the Appeaser" was a sarcastic take on what it seemed, to me, was the thrust of the OP- to me, it truly seemed that such a notion was strongly suggested in the OP and I found it kind of hilarious
How quickly some folks seem to have glazed over a renewed Cold War in the Bush years. Obama is pulling an American thorn out of a Russian foot. Only warmongers look for a war that isn't there....
Yes Lone Wolf, I guess I was not stating it head-on, but the abandonment of the stupid sci-fi "missile shield" (which I have no doubt would have involved more than just a few "interception ONLY" items being parked on Russias porch) is in fact an obvious attempt to call off the brand new cold war that the Bush admin tried so hard to start (with the willing aid of the MSM)
And on a practical side, it's quite pragmatic- scrapping plans to build an untested and likely useless several-billions-dollars "defense" system is a wise move for a country that no longer has the means to pay for their own actual affairs, much less the paranoid wargasm fantasies of the Pax Americana crowd. More and more the US as a geopolitical entity is looking like the "protagonist" from the move "Fight Club"
And on a practical side, it's quite pragmatic- scrapping plans to build an untested and likely useless several-billions-dollars "defense" system is a wise move for a country that no longer has the means to pay for their own actual affairs, much less the paranoid wargasm fantasies of the Pax Americana crowd. More and more the US as a geopolitical entity is looking like the "protagonist" from the move "Fight Club"
There was big profit in Cold War. I bet the folks who sold forty thousand dollar screwdrivers to the taxpayers are most vocal of all about Obama's "betrayal"....
Sorry I misunderstood you. The problem with Poland is that they already took a stand, and that is with the U.S.,. When Bush first suggested putting the missiles there, the "Cuban Missile crisis" was the first thing to come into mind. The missiles were just as stated, medium range anti missile missiles. Could be a threat to Russia if they attacked someone in Europe with a pre-emptive strike. (which was not a problem till Bush suggested installing them.) Any way that little problem is over.
PS: We have the missile system, it would just have entailed installing it.
I know one of the secret projects that needed funding - and something to make the public happy in way of explanation - was the Manhattan Project
With the Defense Shield Scrapped, Are We Forgetting Poland?
September 21st, 2009 | By: Michael Merritt
Tags: Foreign Policy, Iran, missile defense, poland
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Former President George W. Bush once said, in a 2004 debate with Senator John Kerry, “Don’t forget Poland.” The subject of the sentiment, of course, was the country’s participation in the multi-national “coalition of the willing” that was fighting in Iraq. However, since Bush won re-election, Poland has been ground zero in an attempt to defend Europe against the specters of Middle Eastern-based terrorism, Iran, North Korea and, arguably, Russia. To that end, a plan to build a missile defense system in the country was put in place. It was announced by Obama last week that this system was being scrapped. Republicans lashed out, saying that Obama was being an appeaser. Other lines of criticism I’ve seen focused on Poland itself, saying that its sacrifices in the Iraq war were being thanked with a loss of security that the missile shield would have provided. Essentially the argument is that Poland, and by extension Europe, is being forgotten.
Today, the New York Times published an op-ed written by Defense Secretary Robert Gates which defends the decision to scrap the missile defense system, but also outlines a new plan which Gates says will be much more effective, and quicker to roll out .
The way Republicans seem to be framing it, the Czech Republic/Poland system is being scrapped with nothing to replace it, but that’s not the reality. The reality is that the plan is being modified, not replaced. I am certainly not an expert in the area of missile defense, but as Gates says, things change. We have new intelligence that suggests something changing conditions within Iran. Should we not then modify our plans to act on it?
After all, the prevailing wisdom with the Iraq war has been to monitor conditions on the ground and adapt as needed. Is it not wise to apply that wisdom to defense as well? Gates seems to think so, and given the success of his previous initiatives, I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Still, what about Poland? Are we forgetting them? I don’t think we are. After all, the missile system still exists, just in a different form, and ostensibly, it will be much closer to the threat of missiles from Iran than it was before. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is angered by the new plans, which has to count for something.
In the end, it seems that not much is actually changing. We’re deploying the sea system first (an element Republicans also wanted), so some protection can be had while the land system is developed, which is being moved to better match updated intelligence. Seems to make sense to me, but perhaps somebody can let me know what the problem is.
September 21st, 2009 | By: Michael Merritt
Tags: Foreign Policy, Iran, missile defense, poland
Leave a comment | Trackback
Former President George W. Bush once said, in a 2004 debate with Senator John Kerry, “Don’t forget Poland.” The subject of the sentiment, of course, was the country’s participation in the multi-national “coalition of the willing” that was fighting in Iraq. However, since Bush won re-election, Poland has been ground zero in an attempt to defend Europe against the specters of Middle Eastern-based terrorism, Iran, North Korea and, arguably, Russia. To that end, a plan to build a missile defense system in the country was put in place. It was announced by Obama last week that this system was being scrapped. Republicans lashed out, saying that Obama was being an appeaser. Other lines of criticism I’ve seen focused on Poland itself, saying that its sacrifices in the Iraq war were being thanked with a loss of security that the missile shield would have provided. Essentially the argument is that Poland, and by extension Europe, is being forgotten.
Today, the New York Times published an op-ed written by Defense Secretary Robert Gates which defends the decision to scrap the missile defense system, but also outlines a new plan which Gates says will be much more effective, and quicker to roll out .
That plan would have put the radar and interceptors in Central Europe by 2015 at the earliest. Delays in the Polish and Czech ratification process extended that schedule by at least two years. Which is to say, under the previous program, there would have been no missile-defense system able to protect against Iranian missiles until at least 2017 — and likely much later.
2017? That’s a long time, don’t you think? With all we’ve heard about how close Iran supposedly is to having the bomb, or a missile system of its own, it seems like 2017 would be far too late to do anything about it. Gates says the new solution is to roll out the new system in phases, making it come about much more quickly:in the first phase, to be completed by 2011, we will deploy proven, sea-based SM-3 interceptor missiles — weapons that are growing in capability — in the areas where we see the greatest threat to Europe. [...]
The new approach to European missile defense actually provides us with greater flexibility to adapt as new threats develop and old ones recede. For example, the new proposal provides some antimissile capacity very soon — a hedge against Iran’s managing to field missiles much earlier than had been previously predicted. The old plan offered nothing for almost a decade.
The plan Gates outlines provides for both sea and ground defense, with the SM-3 missiles being placed in Central and Southern Europe by 2015.
The way Republicans seem to be framing it, the Czech Republic/Poland system is being scrapped with nothing to replace it, but that’s not the reality. The reality is that the plan is being modified, not replaced. I am certainly not an expert in the area of missile defense, but as Gates says, things change. We have new intelligence that suggests something changing conditions within Iran. Should we not then modify our plans to act on it?
After all, the prevailing wisdom with the Iraq war has been to monitor conditions on the ground and adapt as needed. Is it not wise to apply that wisdom to defense as well? Gates seems to think so, and given the success of his previous initiatives, I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Still, what about Poland? Are we forgetting them? I don’t think we are. After all, the missile system still exists, just in a different form, and ostensibly, it will be much closer to the threat of missiles from Iran than it was before. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is angered by the new plans, which has to count for something.
In the end, it seems that not much is actually changing. We’re deploying the sea system first (an element Republicans also wanted), so some protection can be had while the land system is developed, which is being moved to better match updated intelligence. Seems to make sense to me, but perhaps somebody can let me know what the problem is.
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Has this person ever looked at a map? By the time an interceptor missile has a chance to intercept any missile fired from Iran, that missile will have already impacted on Israel
And there lies the confusion. Unless they moved at the speed of light, maybe a wee bit slower they could never hope to protect Israel. These missiles had to be for some sort of European defense.
Russian plans to deploy missiles in an enclave next to Poland have not been shelved, the
country's top general said Monday, contradicting a comment made by a government official
last week after the US announced it was dropping a plan to place land-based missile defense
systems in Poland and the Czech Republic.
US President Obama, left, and Russian President Medvedev attend a signing ceremony
before a joint press conference at the Kremlin in early July. At front, signing documents
are Admiral Michael Mullen, left, head of US Chiefs of Staff and Gen. Nikolai Makarov,
Chief of the Russian General Staff.
US President Barack Obama's decision was received positively by Russia, which is sensitive to
US moves it sees as upsetting the post-Cold War balance of power, especially in countries
formerly belonging to the Soviet bloc. Moscow even threatened to place Iskander short-
range offensive missiles near Poland if the US proceeded with its plan.
On Saturday, Russian Deputy Defense Minister Vladimir Popovkin said in an interview that
"naturally we will scrap the measures that Russia planned to take" in response to the US
shield, specifically mentioning the deployment of Iskanders as one of the measures Russia
had been planning.
But when asked about the matter on Monday, Russian chief of General Staff Nikolai
Makarov was quoted by Reuters as saying, "There has been no such decision. It should be a
political decision. It should be made by the president."
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Hey Johnnny ,Your grandmother, just like other grand mothers ,grandfathers and other immigrants ,have build Canada .
I salute your grandmo Johnnny.
Perhaps you missed the part where Sec. of Defense Gates said this new plan gets missiles out there earlier, and in fact isn't reneging on the missiles in Poland at all. I mean it's been posted like three times now, once by myself and twice by the Pole living in China.
Typical oversight of a small minded partisan hack like yourself Jack. Just because you are.
Typical oversight of a small minded partisan hack like yourself Jack. Just because you are.
Tonigton
The next 41 years found me in North Amereica ,both Us and Canada .
Mostly in Canada .Now since 2002 I reside in China . Life is great .
I love that Tonigton though I consider my self a Polish/ Canadian . I was born in Poland and spend there the first 12.5 years of my life .
The next 41 years found me in North Amereica ,both Us and Canada .
Mostly in Canada .Now since 2002 I reside in China . Life is great .