Why do we depend on others?

[talloola]

Oh brother! :roll: I think it great that you found true love and all, but please realize that us dedicated loners can be just as happy too! Having two cats and roommate can be very fulfilling.

The friend thing is fine, I get all of that, but the 'alone' thing is tough, and if one can comfortably enjoy their time alone, and I mean really alone, and figure
that out, 'just between you and the earth', and be happy, you've done something
very special, then comes the pets, friends, spouses, whatever, to 'add' to the
flavour.

 

[In Between Man]

The friend thing is fine, I get all of that, but the 'alone' thing is tough, and if one can comfortably enjoy their time alone, and I mean really alone, and figure
that out, 'just between you and the earth', and be happy, you've done something
very special, then comes the pets, friends, spouses, whatever, to 'add' to the
flavour.

Interesting you brought that up. The connection I feel with the earth is only so deep. Because if you want to talk about spending time alone, I've got a PhD. And when you really spend time alone its not hard to find God if you choose to seek him. So my connection is only so deep with the creation, and much stronger with the creator.

My connection to the wilderness has been valuable though. It reaffirms that it was all created and designed, waiting to be conquered.

 

[talloola]

Interesting you brought that up. The connection I feel with the earth is only so deep. Because if you want to talk about spending time alone, I've got a PhD. And when you really spend time alone its not hard to find God if you choose to seek him. So my connection is only so deep with the creation, and much stronger with the creator.

My connection to the wilderness has been valuable though. It reaffirms that it was all created and designed, waiting to be conquered.

That is interesting, but even more interesting to me, is how different people can
do the same thing, and come up with an entirely different belief, but that is
the marvel of the human and their earth.

 

[Cliffy]

Do you mean, we judge and construct ourselves by comparing ourselves to others?

No. Our judgments and observations of others are reflections of our inner processes. Those who are closest to us tend to act out aspects of our character that we may have been avoiding. People who we like or admire tend to reflect the aspects of our character that we are comfortable with, but those who really piss us off reflect those aspects that we are unwilling to accept as part of our own makeup. Those are the lessons that we need to learn, the aspects that we need to really look at objectively and either embrace or change.

Almost all relationships end in the blame game which is an abdication of their own responsibility for their role in making the mess. Relationship is a partnership with each person having equal responsibility in making or breaking it. A good marriage councilor will ask the one complaining about the other, why they are pushing the other away. It is the same with any level of relationship. If your cat is pissed off at you, ask yourself why you are pissed off at it.

It all comes down to self awareness, learning who we are by our interactions with others. It is how we grow and evolve as humans.

By the way, if god created nature, then he created it perfect. We do not conquer nature, we learn to live in harmony with it or we perish.

 

[In Between Man]

By the way, if god created nature, then he created it perfect. We do not conquer nature, we learn to live in harmony with it or we perish.

I meant conquer as in simply exploring. As for the rest of your argument, all I see is the usual relativist philosophy trying to trap me. There must be a situation where one can be angry or even just morally justified and it has NOTHING to do with some negative aspect of yourself. Otherwise we're back in this ying yang scenario where I can't call you a thief after you steal from under my nose - because I'm a thief myself.

That's flawed. I'm not saying life has no grey, but it does have black and white as well.

 

[Cliffy]

Don't leave me hanging Cliffy!!! Its okay that I truly love my best friend and would give my life to save his right??? .... RIGHT???????8O8O8O

... or you are gay and are hiding it from yourself with religion. I don't know you well enough to say one way or another but it might be a possibility you might end up having to look at. (I can hear the scream inside your head from here.)

 

[Cliffy]

I meant conquer as in simply exploring. As for the rest of your argument, all I see is the usual relativist philosophy trying to trap me. There must be a situation where one can be angry or even just morally justified and it has NOTHING to do with some negative aspect of yourself. Otherwise we're back in this ying yang scenario where I can't call you a thief after you steal from under my nose - because I'm a thief myself.

That's flawed. I'm not saying life has no grey, but it does have black and white as well.

The bible says you reap what you sow - for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Karma. If you get robbed, you need to look at what you have been thinking, doing or believe. If you are honest you will find what the robbery is in response to.

 

[Cliffy]

Oh Alley,

You little wiener. Running away just when things get a little too hot for you!

 

[Serryah]

I recently broke up with my fiancee of seven years (I knew her for ten) and ever since it's been hard to horrible. I made the decision based on what I thought was best for us both. I realize now I should have done it sooner than this, but she always played the "I can't live without you" game and I was honestly afraid of what she would do, what would happen if I went through with it. And things just kept getting worse. A lot of it stems from a difference of opinion, but also because I felt like she was trapping me and while she admits that this is possible, I am still completely at fault.

Even now I feel like all the blame is mine sometimes (and her "friends" had been very vocal on the subject to say it has been) and she seems overhappy with her life. In our last conversation where I broke up with her, she said she would "give it all up" - meaning the things in her life that made her happy - just to be with me. But I believe doing that is wrong. No one should give up the things that make them happy but perhaps that is me being naieve?

She was the first realationship I've ever had. Others around me have told me that the blame isn't all mine but there are times I wonder. I thought she was my "soul mate" as no one ever in my life seemed to see what she saw. The fact she is no longer part of my life scares the you know what out of me.

 

[mit]

Interestingly my best friend is not my wife and happens to be female. In the ups and downs of both of our relationships with our own partners we have been rather steady in our friendship. We have even been encouraged to take our friendship to a (higher?) level by our mutual friends. We have a common reply "Why screw up a good friendship?" The really strange part is that our friendship is questioned more by others than our partners. It seems that most people view a mixed sex friendship as one with "Benefits" - There are benefits but sex is not one of them - we can get that at home.
P.S. - Missed you guys - been busy on Facebook and preparing for school in Sept. - Going to college on the government nickel. I hope that college is ready for me!

 

[karrie]

I spent last night giving a lot of thought to the fact that I agree with both china and gerry about the nature of marriage and love. An apparent contradiction that puzzled me until I looked down at my hand.

14 years ago, at the tender age of 16, my husband placed a ring upon my finger and vowed to love me always. One can imagine the effect of continuing to grow with something permanently on your hand, and while the ring comes on and off easily, there is no mistaking the fact that my ring finger has grown with a ring on it. A clear dent, pale because it never sees sun. Without the ring, my finger looks odd and misshapen.

It doesn't make my finger less of a finger, but it does make it look odd without the ring.

My husband and I are no different. We have grown up wearing one another, because we are a comfortable, extraordinary fit. Two complete individuals, whose effect on one another is unmistakable, and drastic. Where he and I meet, we have create niches for one another, and in the absence of the person meant to be there, things simply don't look quite right.

That doesn't make me an incomplete person, it just makes me one upon whom he's had a huge effect. And, I imagine, much like my ring finger in the absence of a ring, if we were ever apart, some of those impressions might start to fade with time, and make us look more like the whole people we are once again.

 

[lone wolf]

You only really know how much space that other person fills in your life when that person is no longer there.

 

[mit]

I spent last night giving a lot of thought to the fact that I agree with both china and gerry about the nature of marriage and love. An apparent contradiction that puzzled me until I looked down at my hand.

14 years ago, at the tender age of 16, my husband placed a ring upon my finger and vowed to love me always. One can imagine the effect of continuing to grow with something permanently on your hand, and while the ring comes on and off easily, there is no mistaking the fact that my ring finger has grown with a ring on it. A clear dent, pale because it never sees sun. Without the ring, my finger looks odd and misshapen.

It doesn't make my finger less of a finger, but it does make it look odd without the ring.

My husband and I are no different. We have grown up wearing one another, because we are a comfortable, extraordinary fit. Two complete individuals, whose effect on one another is unmistakable, and drastic. Where he and I meet, we have create niches for one another, and in the absence of the person meant to be there, things simply don't look quite right.

That doesn't make me an incomplete person, it just makes me one upon whom he's had a huge effect. And, I imagine, much like my ring finger in the absence of a ring, if we were ever apart, some of those impressions might start to fade with time, and make us look more like the whole people we are once again.

Very nice Karrie -

 

[talloola]

Yes, very true, Lonewolf, and as we get older, which my husband and I are, early 70's, the
fact of being left alone comes into play, a very fearful feeling, and makes one
think about having to be alone for a number of years, and how will I do that.
It's good to realize that, and think about it, and prepare for it, and as scary as
it is, it is life, and when it does happen, one must reach down to their core and
find that strength, some have it some don't. What one has done throughout ones
life, to deal with life, 'alone', is very helpful, teaches you what you have in your gut, and how to fight through negativity and sadness, even with the help of many,
it is 'you' and 'you' alone that knows the way, if you know yourself.

 

[gerryh]

Oh brother! :roll: I think it great that you found true love and all, but please realize that us dedicated loners can be just as happy too! Having two cats and roommate can be very fulfilling.

Never said you couldn't....but it is interesting how you seem to be taking offence at what I did say.

 

[karrie]

Is it normal that my soul mate is my MALE best friend, whom I have BROTHERLY love for?

Or I am just weak ass who needs to cling to someone therefore I'm just deluding myself?

'Normal' is a lie.

You're not deluding yourself. People are valuable, and if your best friend is important to you, that's simply the end of the story. Keep the people who are important to you. Simple.

 

[karrie]

Interestingly my best friend is not my wife and happens to be female. In the ups and downs of both of our relationships with our own partners we have been rather steady in our friendship. We have even been encouraged to take our friendship to a (higher?) level by our mutual friends. We have a common reply "Why screw up a good friendship?" The really strange part is that our friendship is questioned more by others than our partners.

My husband only has one or two male friends, and most of his really good friends are women. It disturbs his mom to no end that I let him go hang out with women. lol.

 

[mit]

My husband only has one or two male friends, and most of his really good friends are women. It disturbs his mom to no end that I let him go hang out with women. lol.

I am the same with the ratio of male to female friends and I like it!

 

[ironsides]

Some do not realize that life is not fair, all you can expect is justice.

 

[Cliffy]

Some do not realize that life is not fair, all you can expect is justice.

So why won't you hand over Bush and Cheney?