Refuse to choose® women deserve better® than abortion

[bluedog]

Times 365 days a year that is 3,650,000 a year or about 1% of your population. That would be a lot of unwanted mouths to feed at society's expense. That would require an ever expanding bureaucracy that would put a further strain on the economy, the environment and resources. As it is there are a lot of kids every year that don't get adopted. Where will you house all these kids. Who will feed them, cloth them and change their diapers.

Millions of children die every year from starvation and preventable diseases. Why, because we do not have the resources to feed them and provide medical care. The world is over populated and is not like the US. The US already uses far more than its fair share of resources, a ridiculous percentage. Although I understand your point of view, I understand the emotional and moral reasons, they are not logical or practical.

The world economy is down the tubes, governments are in chaos, religions are at war, people are losing their homes... humanity is in crisis, the environment is in crisis. Not only is bringing more children into the world going to increase the strain on the planet, it is not fair to them to force them to be born in these chaotic and volatile times. There has never been this much humanity on the planet. Pollution and climate change have made our future uncertain. What you want to do is speed up our demise.

I realize that you think god and Jesus are coming to save the day, but the majority of people don't have the luxury of your optimism or beliefs. Your beliefs are just that and hold very little substance outside your religious beliefs. Have you been in any of the many refugy camps filled with staving people, homeless, possessionless.

Perhaps you should venture out into the real world and out of your Disney-esque version, to see what your lifestyle costs the rest of humanity.

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You are right Cliffy, despite the majority of people in the USa, claiming to love Christ, many have still- only to listen hear Him today... "Oh ye of little faith... if you had but a morsel of faith... you would say to the winds and the raging seas "Be Calm"!!!
Go back and study those sleeping fishermen, the doubting Peter and his brothers, tossed at sea totally overcome with fear.
Crying Out! Lord! Lord!
They had not learned anything either-
Cliffy, will you Study on this?

Brother do you remember a time in both our younger years? Back when the Usa and those free around the world Condemned China? We all felt pain for the massive numbers of "indoctrinated women" forced to report to doctors if they became pregnant for mandatory abortions and killing ALL unborn innocent life for decades!
We were civilized then, the Godly as well as those not. Today our women are now being indoctrinated. Today, no better using abortion as birth control!!!!

Economics over values
new values over faith!

Yes there actually are 10,000 "procedures" per day. :fish:

Optimism? Faith? It is our road we have to walk. We made it together. Together we have to work to change it, yes.
Cliffy, it begins in you, in me. The change must come with every decision you and I make today, which road will you choose to improve it? Quit trying to change the world by yourself, change yourself. The world will take care of itself, maybe not. Hey, it well could be too late...
Surprise surprise??
No surprise to me at all.
Choose life, Choose love... Choose that morsel of faith. Only then will you come halt the raging sea, within and without! Choose to carry your own cross of forbearance and humility. Choose peace. Just get that morsel brother!

He will make it all logical and practical for You, in you circle of life. He will never leave You forsaken Cliffy!

 

[bluedog]

where did you get that 10,000 figure? That seems pure prolife propaganda, a lie manufactured by the prolife side. Do you have a weblink for that?

Protecting the Next Generation: Adolescent Sexual and Reproductive Health - United States, Canada and Western Europe

 

[Cliffy]

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Choose life, Choose love... Choose that morsel of faith. Only then will you come halt the raging sea, within and without! Choose to carry your own cross of forbearance and humility. Choose peace. Just get that morsel brother!

He will make it all logical and practical for You, in you circle of life. He will never leave You forsaken Cliffy!

You see, that is what I'm talking about, judgmental self righteousness. I have a lot of faith. I just don't share the same beliefs as you. I do not question your faith. I question your constant judging of others.

 

[JLM]

Any excuse to get your balls in a knot, eh! jack. Its a beautiful day out there. The sun is shining, birds singing and life goes on. Every day you wake up alive is a good day. have a great day Jack. Life is too short to sweat the little things.

Y.J. I hope you're listening to Cliff. There's a book "Don't Sweat the Small Stuff", read it.

 

[Niflmir]

The guilty in society cost society for the term of their incarceration. Those found guilty are often hospitalized with injuries in the process of their crime and cost possibly tens of thousands for treatment additionally charged to society.
ALL these guilty criminals are allowed to live as a burden on society including their legal fees, et al. !!!

Yet the innocent but not yet born should be chemically dissolved or sucked through a straw because they are innocent- but smaller and younger, carrying a "Possibility" of being a burden on someone somewhere!

All Because.
The value of "choice" outweighs the innocent value of any unborn unique human life?
All Because.
The Constitutional law of "choice" must prevail?

Man. Kill them all. What is their value??? What do they cost???Old folks in nursing homes, unadopted children, the terminally ill, the mentally ill who else? Welfare mothers with kids on foodstamps?
How about:
Pregnant women with free government abortions perhaps...

Save the economy! :fish:
(psst, they ARE the economy! Government programs and the social workers and doctors... SirPorters wife who is on your dime.)
Just making HIS point not mine.

First off, please learn to use the quote feature.

You just don't get it. If some nobel prize winner has a few too many beers and decides to attack a homeless person who kills him in self defense, are you trying to imply that it is murder, simply because the nobel prize winner had more value?

This is what you are trying to say, that the value of the life determines the crime. Even worse, maybe you are trying to say that the potential for value determines the crime. Why, nobody would ever be able to defend themself in your world. What if that person would cure cancer the very next day?

Value doesn't come into the equation. The question is, does a person not have the choice on whether their body is a host to some other organism or not? If you answer no, then maybe some day you wake up some day the victim of a bad experiment, having a person who needed a heart transplant surgically attached to you by a mad scientist without either of your consents. Then you can forever live your live in irony.

 

[gerryh]

The question is, does a person not have the choice on whether their body is a host to some other organism or not? If you answer no, then maybe some day you wake up some day the victim of a bad experiment, having a person who needed a heart transplant surgically attached to you by a mad scientist without either of your consents. Then you can forever live your live in irony.

The answer is, of course they have the choice, and when they have laid down and had their little bit of fun, they made that choice and the choice was "I may get pregnant". THAT is when the choice is made.

If that choice and possibility isn't rattleing around in their tiny little brains and they decide after the fact to kill what they have alreay made the choice of creating, then that is murder.

 

[bluedog]

You see, that is what I'm talking about, judgmental self righteousness. I have a lot of faith. I just don't share the same beliefs as you. I do not question your faith. I question your constant judging of others.

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You write above you have a lot of faith, yet you dread. Your faith is in what? Cliffy, you had just rambled on and on because of world overpopulation, world hunger, world economic collapse and impending ecological disaster at the hands of man. These men will soon fix it all? Honestly?
Cliffy, Brother! On what do you depend this faith? Not on a One World Order. Who will be the "savior" from your world view and impending dread? Corporations? We are the World? On who and or what is your faith based?

I only ask because you claim in this post to have it. Yet you still openly dread, you fear! :fish:


I stand for life over choice, for all of your dread and fear.

 

[bluedog]

The answer is, of course they have the choice, and when they have laid down and had their little bit of fun, they made that choice and the choice was "I may get pregnant". THAT is when the choice is made.

If that choice and possibility isn't rattleing around in their tiny little brains and they decide after the fact to kill what they have alreay made the choice of creating, then that is murder.

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Right on brother. Right on! Amen to that.

 

[Niflmir]

The answer is, of course they have the choice, and when they have laid down and had their little bit of fun, they made that choice and the choice was "I may get pregnant". THAT is when the choice is made.

If that choice and possibility isn't rattleing around in their tiny little brains and they decide after the fact to kill what they have alreay made the choice of creating, then that is murder.

Rape victims: apparently they made their choice when they left their home.

You disgust me gerry.

 

[Niflmir]

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Right on brother. Right on! Amen to that.

I haven't forgot about you either bluedog. ------ ---- ----. Seriously, you sound like you are cheering on a raping with that sentence. Tack on a "She deserves it for wearing such revealing clothes," and you become the ultimate chauvinist.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

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You write above you have a lot of faith, yet you dread. Your faith is in what? Cliffy, you had just rambled on and on because of world overpopulation, world hunger, world economic collapse and impending ecological disaster at the hands of man. These men will soon fix it all? Honestly?
Cliffy, Brother! On what do you depend this faith? Not on a One World Order. Who will be the "savior" from your world view and impending dread? Corporations? We are the World? On who and or what is your faith based?

I only ask because you claim in this post to have it. Yet you still openly dread, you fear! :fish:


I stand for life over choice, for all of your dread and fear.

Bluedog, I don’t know about Cliffy, but personally I have no faith, here I disagree with Cliffy (we do disagree once in a while, you know).

So who will be the Savior from my world view? It will be humankind. It has to be, if humankind cannot fix the mess we are in, we will perish for sure.

Overpopulation, world hunger, economic collapse, global warming etc., it is up to humans to fix these problems, I don’t’ think they can rely on a supernatural, anthropomorphic entity called God.

I stand for life over choice as well, but i don't think abortion has anything to do with life.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I haven't forgot about you either bluedog. You're both pigs. Seriously, you sound like you are cheering on a raping with that sentence. Tack on a "She deserves it for wearing such revealing clothes," and you become the ultimate chauvinist.

That is many times the conservative official party line, Niflmir, if a woman is raped she asked for it.

Indeed if you look at conservative societies (Islamic countries for instance), it is almost impossible to convict a man for rape. Sharia requires that there must be witnesses to prove rape, and if rape is not proved the woman is usually charged with adultery and stoned to death.

So for a conservative it is very simple, if a woman is raped, she probably asked for it. To convict a man for rape is a relatively recent concept (especially to charge a man with rape within marriage), and it is a liberal concept.

In the old days such as 40s and 50s (which were positively paradise according to conservatives), it was permissible in the court to bring up the past sexual history of the woman. The defense lawyer would bring up all kinds of witnesses and crucify the woman; in effect the woman would be on trial, not the rapist.

When the society became liberal, they passed laws saying that a woman’s past sexual history cannot be brought up in the court, the raped woman received other protections. But conservatives are usually uncomfortable with prosecuting rapists, in their mind, usually the woman asked for it (by wearing revealing clothes, by going out with the man etc.).

A conservative will call for death penalty for convicted rapists (you know how quick they are at state sponsored killing of citizens), but in an ideal conservative world, it will be nearly impossible to prove the crime of rape.

So the attitude displayed here does not really surprise me.

 

[Niflmir]

It doesn't surprise me so much either, but I find it despicable nonetheless.

Every couple of minutes a woman in North America is sexually assaulted, apparently every single one their own fault?

Honestly, that mindset is just stone aged.

 

[missile]

If the lady was Paris Hilton, this Conservative would have a hard time believing it was rape.

 

[gerryh]

Rape victims: apparently they made their choice when they left their home.

You disgust me gerry.

No, you are the one that is disgusting by pulling the "rape" card to justify the murder of thousands of baby's a year. Rape accounts for a miniscule number of abortions per year.

How about we say rape and incest do not enter into the equation.

 

[Cliffy]

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You write above you have a lot of faith, yet you dread. Your faith is in what? Cliffy, you had just rambled on and on because of world overpopulation, world hunger, world economic collapse and impending ecological disaster at the hands of man. These men will soon fix it all? Honestly?
Cliffy, Brother! On what do you depend this faith? Not on a One World Order. Who will be the "savior" from your world view and impending dread? Corporations? We are the World? On who and or what is your faith based?

I only ask because you claim in this post to have it. Yet you still openly dread, you fear! :fish:


I stand for life over choice, for all of your dread and fear.

I don't dread or fear anything. I was stating what is an obvious flaw in your logic. My faith is in life, Mother Earth and the Universe. Petty little tyrant gods are not going to save anybody, Jesus is not coming (although he and Mary may be cumming). The return of Christ is a process involving the evolution of the consciousness of humanity. It is not an event. This is not a religious experience but a quantum leap in human understanding of our true nature.

 

[Francis2004]

Yeah, but withdrawl can be overcome even for a newborn in intensive care, if the Lord wants it He will bring it home. Now:

Imagine the pain of being dissolved by acid in your mothers womb. Or dissected with a sharp instrument till you are destroyed enough to be sucked through a straw and spilled in a bucket!
10,000 cases per day in the USa alone! :fish:

You just don't get it do you..

If God want's that child now, he will take him by Abortion or any other method.. Period.. Man does not decide, God does..

You will not decide if he suffers, God will.. Hence he dies by Abortion or not.. Again not "your" choice..

You are not God..

You see you always say God does not want but you keep speaking for God..

My problem with that is God, almighty and powerful, can speak for himself.

So how do I know you don't represent the "other side" in sheep clothing ?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I only ask because you claim in this post to have it. Yet you still openly dread, you fear! - bluedog

I don't dread or fear anything. I was stating what is an obvious flaw in your logic. – Cliffy

Bluedog, cliffy, Isaac Asimov made exactly the same point when he was dying. He knew several days before his death that the end was near. In one of his last pieces he wrote “I am an Atheist, I don’t believe in God, so death holds no terror for me.”

He had the serenity, peace of mind that comes from knowing that there is no after life, that after we die, all of us go ten feet under and nothing more.

 

[bluedog]

It doesn't surprise me so much either, but I find it despicable nonetheless.

Every couple of minutes a woman in North America is sexually assaulted, apparently every single one their own fault?

Honestly, that mindset is just stone aged.

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You are definitely reading words in our posts that are not there...
time to visit your optimologist ----BUT!----if you of course become a burden on society with all your doctor bills, someone on this page will put YOU to death.
Crime: your COST to SOCIETY!!! Without a trial just your medical card.. :lol:

WE never said anything about violent attacks... rape and incest rarely result in pregnancy and if they come forward immediately things can get flushed before the cell splits, if she was even fertile at the time. Highly Unlikely. Usually not.
Statistics show this happens in rape and incest ---about as often as homo's get pregnant!---- (I have decided NOT to use your "politically correct" terms and give in to the homo agenda. It is NOT my politics)

Do you "ultra liberals" that there is no such thing as Female teachers raping young boys either right? What does Canada do with them? Instruct me please. --Just give the boys a brownie badge or something and let the woman run for politics instead of from a jail cell??

Please this is deteriorating badly:fish:

 

[gerryh]

abortion is not about religeon.