Gay Rights And The Bible

[petros]

How did an all knowing, all seeing god miss out on watching over two people with only one possible crime to commit? If he can't keep track of one chick and a tree how would he ever know who or what the hell you are boinking in the dark if he has trouble seeing in the daytime?

 

[El Barto]

How did an all knowing, all seeing god miss out on watching over two people with only one possible crime to commit? If he can't keep track of one chick and a tree how would he ever know who or what the hell you are boinking in the dark if he has trouble seeing in the daytime?

:laughing8:


Umm all i can say is ...........umm err ..........OMG 8O:laughing8:

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Perhaps God and Satan are one in the same? Might need to spike the holy water with remeron, it is supposed to alleviate both multi-personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder according to the pamphlet.

Indeed they are, Petros. There is a bit of God and a bit of Devil in all of us.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

The details of how Satan and God interacted isn't the point to the story.

And why not, alley? To me, that is an important point of the story. God and Devil are supposed to be the worst of enemies, yet when Devil wanted to do something, he approached God.

Now, if you wanted to do something, would you approach your worst enemy for help, for permission? No way, you would do it without any reference to your worst enemy, or not do it at all.

Yet Devil asked God if it is OK if Devil tested one of God’s followers, Job. And God agreed. Now again ask yourself, if your worst enemy comes to you and asks if it is OK if he tests the martial faithfulness of your wife, would you agree? No way, you would tell the creep to get lost, no matter how confident you are that your wife won’t stray.

Yet God agreed with Devil, that the Devil may test Job, why? If God wanted to test Job, why didn’t he do it himself? It is not as if God has not done truly horrible, destructive deeds, he has done plenty. So why not test Job himself, why let Devil do it?

The only conclusion I can draw from that is that God and Devil work together, cooperatively. They are not enemies, but friends.

 

[Cliffy]

The details of how Satan and God interacted isn't the point to the story.

And why not, alley? To me, that is an important point of the story. God and Devil are supposed to be the worst of enemies, yet when Devil wanted to do something, he approached God.

Now, if you wanted to do something, would you approach your worst enemy for help, for permission? No way, you would do it without any reference to your worst enemy, or not do it at all.

Yet Devil asked God if it is OK if Devil tested one of God’s followers, Job. And God agreed. Now again ask yourself, if your worst enemy comes to you and asks if it is OK if he tests the martial faithfulness of your wife, would you agree? No way, you would tell the creep to get lost, no matter how confident you are that your wife won’t stray.

Yet God agreed with Devil, that the Devil may test Job, why? If God wanted to test Job, why didn’t he do it himself? It is not as if God has not done truly horrible, destructive deeds, he has done plenty. So why not test Job himself, why let Devil do it?

The only conclusion I can draw from that is that God and Devil work together, cooperatively. They are not enemies, but friends.

God is Schizophrenic!??8O
Now that explains the whole bible thing! But if that is true then... so are people, since we are supposed to have been created by god in his own image. That would explain the religious and all the horror they have inflicted on humanity since time immemorial.

 

[MHz]

Hey, I'm willing to give you equal time with S.J. and Cliffy but beyond shooting down their points you have to give the correct answer as you see it. I'm an old codger who has forgotten a lot but I need to see proof. Denying their statements isn't proof.

What's the matter, too lazy to look it up yourself? Perhaps the best way for god to show SJP, and all other mockers, that God and Satan are enemies is to put them both in the same place after Satan is in chains in the pit.

LOL the last two pages certainly show the true charactor of many members, enjoy it while you can.

 

[JLM]

What's the matter, too lazy to look it up yourself? Perhaps the best way for god to show SJP, and all other mockers, that God and Satan are enemies is to put them both in the same place after Satan is in chains in the pit.

LOL the last two pages certainly show the true charactor of many members, enjoy it while you can.

Why would I have to bother looking up anything? I already have seen enough to form my own opinions, which I'm not trying to pass off on anyone. I just don't like people ramming stuff down my throat under the guise of faith, anyone who wants to change my belief has to scientifically prove what they say. I have my own ideas that I am NOT convinced of, but they make sense to me.

 

[gopher]

''I remember about 20 years ago someone found some planks off Noah's ark on the side of Mt. Ararat (not sure how they determined it was the arc unless perhaps Noah carved his initials in them), but anyway never did hear anymore about it. Just wondering if there ever was confirmation it was indeed the ark.''



I watched a TV report about a finding on History Channel. It was determined that the age of the wood segment was not of the same date as Noah's Ark. Yes, the wood was from that area and was not planted, but the age was not the same.

 

[gopher]

''Christianity has borrowed freely from both these religions (in addition to Judaism, of course).''


Over the years I had been led to believe that the New Testament was divinely revealed and incontrovertibly true. Now in my advanced years, I have my doubts about these claims.

Yes, Christianity has borrowed a great many teachings from other religions. This has been proven to some extent. But what I now find very interesting (in all frankness, not only interesting but fascinating) is how many revelatory writings have been rejected by Christianity. There are dozens of Gospels by a wide variety of reverent masters who were accepted in the early Christian era but later rejected.

Why rejected? It is said because they were not accepted by the Roman authorities who would have killed more Christians if they crossed the line too much. Thus, Christians accepted tamer teachings because of their fear of the Romans.

 

[In Between Man]

Let him deliver you? God caused the problems, or allowed the devil to cause them, in the first place. This is your just and loving god? Job's is a story of entrapment.

The only sensible lesson I can take from the story of Job is that there are reasons for our suffering that we're not allowed to know.

If Job was blameless, why did God allow Satan to afflict him?

Job 1:1 and Job 1:12

1. (Job 1:1) - "There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job, and that man was blameless, upright, fearing God, and turning away from evil."
2. (Job 1:12) - "Then the Lord said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your power, only do not put forth your hand on him."

When the Bible says that Job was blameless, it does not mean that he was absolutely sinless. It means that he was a God-fearing man who sought to do what was right before the Lord. Job's awareness of his own sins is acknowledged by the fact that he sacrificed animals to the Lord as atonement for his sins in chapter 1.

As the story goes, the "sons of God", angels, presented themselves before God. Satan was there and a conversation ensued about Job's goodness. Satan challenges God by stating that Job will denounce God if afflicted. God gives permission to Satan to afflict Job. Of course, Job doesn't denounce God. So, the question is why would God allow Satan to do this?

The reason is so that God may be vindicated at His word and so that we might understand that trials and tribulations will come to those who are godly. In the former, we see the righteousness of God After all, none are righteous before God (Rom. 3:10-12). In the latter we see the perfection of Job's faith (James 1:2-4).

Trouble and tribulations come to the righteous and the wicked. But take notice how the believer is alwayz victorious.

But as long as you're willing to try explaining such mysterious cruelty from the deity, perhaps you could explain the story in 2 Kings where god sends a couple of bears to maul 42 children to death for the apparently capital crime of making fun of Elisha's baldness.

I'm looking but I can't seem to find it. Do you know where? Beginning? Middle? I'll find the proper context of the story and we can figure it out together;-)

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Trouble and tribulations come to the righteous and the wicked. But take notice how the believer is alwayz victorious.

No, can't say as I've noticed that, actually, except perhaps in religious fiction like the Bible. But in real life, no, I don't see that in real life believers do any better than nonbelievers. Looks pretty much random to me.

I'm looking but I can't seem to find it. Do you know where? Beginning? Middle? I'll find the proper context of the story and we can figure it out together;-)

2 Kings 2:23,24. There's no context, really, the situation just appears as Elisha is beginning a journey, the children come out of the city he's leaving and make fun of him for his baldness, he curses them in the name of the Lord, the bears show up and tear them to bits, and Elisha continues on his journey. Tease a holy man, you die horribly, and nobody seems to think anything of it.

 

[JLM]

No, can't say as I've noticed that, actually, except perhaps in religious fiction like the Bible. But in real life, no, I don't see that in real life believers do any better than nonbelievers. Looks pretty much random to me.
2 Kings 2:23,24. There's no context, really, the situation just appears as Elisha is beginning a journey, the children come out of the city he's leaving and make fun of him for his baldness, he curses them in the name of the Lord, the bears show up and tear them to bits, and Elisha continues on his journey. Tease a holy man, you die horribly, and nobody seems to think anything of it.

I've generally found that believers do best when it's themselves they believe in.

 

[MHz]

No, can't say as I've noticed that, actually, except perhaps in religious fiction like the Bible. But in real life, no, I don't see that in real life believers do any better than nonbelievers. Looks pretty much random to me.
2 Kings 2:23,24. There's no context, really, the situation just appears as Elisha is beginning a journey, the children come out of the city he's leaving and make fun of him for his baldness, he curses them in the name of the Lord, the bears show up and tear them to bits, and Elisha continues on his journey. Tease a holy man, you die horribly, and nobody seems to think anything of it.

Very shortly before that his father was 'taken up' by God. As with any child he was in grief over this loss. The children were saying 'go up' in addition to referencing his baldness, that was a reference to the way God took his father. They were mocking him and his father and God. so God made them pay with their lives.
Tease God and you will die. That you can't relate the 'going up' of his father just shows how hidden the real stories are to you. Calling God all sorts of improper names just might be involved in that, who knows and who cares.

With Job, God summoned Satan to stand before the whole assembly of Holy Angels and God brought up the subject of Job saying what a fine servant to God he was. Satan countered that the was a loyal servant only because God had allowed (helped) Job to acquire wealth, etc. Satan bet that if those things were removed Job would curse God. God allowed Satan some latitude short of taking Job's life. Long story short Job didn't curse God and in the end God and Job talked and God restored all that Satan was allowed to take away and increased that 'wealth' over what was originally there.

The ones on this thread are already cursing God, just what 'reward' do you think God is going to give them? lol, can't bitch when it comes down that is for sure.

 

[MHz]

Why would I have to bother looking up anything? I already have seen enough to form my own opinions, which I'm not trying to pass off on anyone. I just don't like people ramming stuff down my throat under the guise of faith, anyone who wants to change my belief has to scientifically prove what they say. I have my own ideas that I am NOT convinced of, but they make sense to me.

Maybe because you can post something that says you post without doing any research into what you are saying. Why post about a subject when you can't even recall who the main characters are?
"You're probably right, my knowledge of the Bible was learned about 55 years ago, all I can remember about Job was a lot of tragedies and tribulations. I'd forgotten all about Satan even being in the picture."

 

[JLM]

Maybe because you can post something that says you post without doing any research into what you are saying. Why post about a subject when you can't even recall who the main characters are?
"You're probably right, my knowledge of the Bible was learned about 55 years ago, all I can remember about Job was a lot of tragedies and tribulations. I'd forgotten all about Satan even being in the picture."

BECAUSE, I believe this whole subject got started when I mentioned that the Bible may be good bedtime reading for kids. Cliff came back with the observation that most of it would scare the hell out of them and I pointed out that reading "Job" would teach them patience. My intent was never to get into Job chapter and verse discussing all the ramifications. Like I said before I'm not particularly religious and definitely not in the sense of how various denominations interpret the Bible. Some day when I have lots of time and nothing else to do I just might read the book Job. Not for religious reasons but just out of interest how a man overcame great tribulations.

 

[captain morgan]

I've generally found that believers do best when it's themselves they believe in.

... As judged by who? You me or the 'believer'?

 

[JLM]

... As judged by who? You me or the 'believer'?

Hey Cap, I'm not a clairvoyant, I can only judge for myself.

 

[captain morgan]

The question was fair.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

They were mocking him and his father and God. so God made them pay with their lives.

That deserves a horrible death by mauling, does it? Nice. The idea of going up occurs fairly often in the Bible in the context of going anywhere, not necessarily to heaven, so you can't legitimately conclude that's what it must mean in this case. You'd also have to assume the children knew the story of Elijah's recent ascent, and there's no indication of that either. The phrase could just as reasonably be taken to mean "get going, baldy, get out of here." God's pretty inconsistent about such punishments, and it seems reasonable to me to expect an infinitely good and wise deity to cut ignorant children some slack. If your interpretation is correct, I can only conclude that god's a mean, nasty, vindictive sonofabitch.

Can I now expect a couple of bears to break through my fence tomorrow morning when I'm mowing the lawn and maul me to death for calling god names?

 

[Cliffy]

God's pretty inconsistent about such punishments, and it seems reasonable to me to expect an infinitely good and wise deity to cut ignorant children some slack. If your interpretation is correct, I can only conclude that god's a mean, nasty, vindictive sonofabitch.

Can I now expect a couple of bears to break through my fence tomorrow morning when I'm mowing the lawn and maul me to death for calling god names?

Yup, Dude! You are SOL! Mhz is all knowing since he has a direct hot line to the big cheese. Just questioning his/her authority on the bible can get your ass fried.