Gay Rights And The Bible

[Cliffy]

I cannot tolerate intolerance.

 

[AnnaG]

I wonder how many ways that I could interpret this and twist it to mean whatever I wanted? Seems to me your happy to apply convenient standards based on what you want to see.

Examples?

Then why have you wasted so much time on this issue?

Uh, guess it didn't occur to you that this might be what I consider fun. I'm sad for you.

Clearly you are challenging the precepts of others in order to clarify these issues in your own mind.

Clearly, you like making assumptions about others.

In the end, if it didn't matter to you on some level, you wouldn't bother, however, you have been very prolific in your posts - that suggests that you are making your points more to convince yourself as opposed to really debating others.

Feel free to assume what you like.

That was my way of saying I was joking.. Didn't you get it?

There was no indication that you were joking so, no, I didn't get it. I left a smilie as an indication. So if I follow your example and assume things, all your posts are jokes?

 

[AnnaG]

So you can't tolerate a belief that flatly contradicts your own. That's hypocritical and fraudulent.

Yes it is hypocritical. Fraudulent? I disagree.
But you are assuming that I don't tolerate Christians or Christianity. You're wrong. My mother is Irish Catholic (I doubt you can find anyone more devoted than an Irish Catholic) and I love her deeply. We have friends who are JWs. They visit us and we visit them. I guess we aren't very tolerant.

Jews, black, asians, homosexuals, transexuals, muslims, buddists, natives, men, women, children, east indians, atheists, ... the list goes on and on. You can tolerate the veiw points of all these different groups but you cannot tolerate Christianity.

How come you don't practice what you preach?

How come you keep making assumptions about me? Just because I state my reasons and evidence why I don't believe in your stuff does NOT mean I don't tolerate it. Don't be silly.

 

[AnnaG]

Your judging an entire group right now - it is the same, it's just not convenient for your position.

Am I? Sorry, but you are wrong again. I am judging what people believe in to be nonsensical. There's a difference between people and what they believe or do, you know.

 

[Liberalman]

I am pretty sure she said Leviticus. And the 10 commandments aren't in that book, as far as I know.They are in Exodus and Deut.

We have to remember that after Jesus died his followers were the ones that made a lot of rules of the Old Testament not apply.

Jesus never said don’t eat pork since at that time it was a health issue as an example.

It was his followers that decided to re-write the rules using logic as opposed to the spirit.

We also have to remember that the bible was not available to the general public.

The priests had it locked away for centuries only available to them so they could use certain sections to control the general population.

There are some bibles out there that have the words of Jesus in red and if you only read what Jesus said it would contradict a lot of churches beliefs because a lot of them are founded on interpretation this is why there are thousands of churches in the world.

Jesus was sent down to save the chosen people of God and they rejected him because his ideas were too radical at the time.

Jesus never said that baptism was a replacement for circumcision it was his followers.

Jesus was sent to remind the Jews that God did not forget about them.

Jesus was sent down to emphasize that following of God’s laws was essential to their well being that’s why he became angry when he saw that business was conducted on the temple grounds a holy site to give thanks to God.

When you look at it Jesus was sent for the chosen ones and that his followers took up his cause after he died changing the bible as they went throwing out God’s laws that they were too lazy to follow.

If Jesus were to come down as a man like he did before but this time for the Christians and attempt to get them to follow God’s true laws which are too radical for today’s Christians, Jesus would suffer the same fate as happened to him more than Two thousand years ago.

Then the cycle would start over again.

 

[JLM]

If you look at Karma (Instant Karma - John Lennon) it is the same law as Newtons Law with a broader meaning which includes deeds and thoughts. You push and life pushes back. You think to yourself that someone (anyone) should be shot or beaten for their crimes against humanity (Dubbya comes to mind) and you stub your toe. Coincidence? Cause and effect, you reap what you so - Karma. You just have to get past the Hindu belief that you might come back as a cow. That is just more dogma getting in the way of physics.

Makes sense to me Cliff, if that Hindu belief were true we have a hell of a lot more cows.

 

[Liberalman]

lot more cows

Big Steak

 

[captain morgan]

I wonder how many ways that I could interpret this and twist it to mean whatever I wanted? Seems to me your happy to apply convenient standards based on what you want to see.

Examples?

Sure: Clearly the quote you provided was a guideline for etiquette relative to appropriate house warming gifts... Don't buy useless items just 'cause they're on sale.



Then why have you wasted so much time on this issue?

Uh, guess it didn't occur to you that this might be what I consider fun. I'm sad for you.

This is Big Time Sasturday Night for you eh?... Don't be sad for me... Really.


Clearly you are challenging the precepts of others in order to clarify these issues in your own mind.

Clearly, you like making assumptions about others.Feel free to assume what you like.

... As opposed to the assumptions that you make on entire cultures that lived thousands of years ago?... Yeah, tell me all about it.


That was my way of saying I was joking.. Didn't you get it?

There was no indication that you were joking so, no, I didn't get it. I left a smilie as an indication. So if I follow your example and assume things, all your posts are jokes?

Sorry if I was unclear on that. I promise to respect your independent thoughts :lol: (note: simile face)

 

[captain morgan]

Your judging an entire group right now - it is the same, it's just not convenient for your position.

Am I? Sorry, but you are wrong again. I am judging what people believe in to be nonsensical. There's a difference between people and what they believe or do, you know.

... Oh, I get it now. The actual molecules that make up a person are entirely independent of the motivations that compel those molecules to act or feel... So, you are judging some kind of seperate electrical force or soul or spirit then?

Doesn't that kinda sink your argument?

 

[Dexter Sinister]

It was someone of faith who developed that?

I don't think so, the internal evidence on the site suggests the guy is a pretty thoroughgoing skeptic.

I think you said quoting scripture was the last resort of whomever couldn't think of anything else. I was under the assumption you were speaking of a person of faith to begin with.

I did indeed say that, and I don't understand why it would confuse you. Citing scripture as a justification for anything is one of the oldest examples around of the argument from authority fallacy. People fall back on it when they can find no other evidence or reason to justify holding a stated belief or position. "The Bible says so" is a conversation stopper for many, presumably on the assumption that it's rude to challenge a person's religious convictions. Religiously-based claims too often get a free ride; I think they have to take their lumps in the marketplace of ideas the same as anything else does. I've never seen an argument against gay rights, for instance, or abortion, that isn't basically rooted in religious convictions, and I don't think that's good enough to make the case.

I cannot see any reason why I would research the Bible as far as that author did, but I love it. Thank you.

You're welcome. I wouldn't have done it either, it's an extraordinary amount of work, but I'm glad somebody did it.

 

[TenPenny]

I cannot tolerate intolerance.

Your intolerance of intolerance is intolerable.

I'm going to try to have you banned - I cannot tolerate this sort of brazen intolerance of intolerance.

 

[Liberalman]

I cannot tolerate this sort of brazen intolerance of intolerance.

????

 

[Cliffy]

Your intolerance of intolerance is intolerable.

I'm going to try to have you banned - I cannot tolerate this sort of brazen intolerance of intolerance.

Fly at it, you intolerable ****************. you!

 

[MHz]

Citing scripture as a justification for anything is one of the oldest examples around of the argument from authority fallacy. People fall back on it when they can find no other evidence or reason to justify holding a stated belief or position. "The Bible says so" is a conversation stopper for many, presumably on the assumption that it's rude to challenge a person's religious convictions.

Maybe your parents were just trying to keep you quiet because you kept asking questions that they had no answer for. Nor is the RCC thirsty for questions from the bench-warmers so even if they had questioned their 'teachers' they would not have been led down any path that involved 100 or so more verses. After all no-one can read the index and know all this is in the later pages without going through all the pages.
The reason I post the verses that I do is that is what led me to believe God meant something is going to happen, just so you know it is GOD doing it here is a description of what is coming because of what has already been written down. No different that you saying 'I'm going to the store and then I'm coming back.".........and then doing just that.....nothing supernatural in that. In fact, in today's carnal world that is a character trait that some use as a guideline as to how close a person gets.

Your link has a point about two family trees, 1 in Matthew and 1 in Luke. 1 for Joesph, heir to the Throne of David (the warrior King), one is for Miriam, sister of Aaron and Moses, High Priest family tree. Mary was a cousin to Elizabeth, wife of Zachariah and daughter of Aaron. The Priest has authority before the coming of the King (and all that entails). One part fulfilled one part remaining.
In a shortened version it would have this so far.

Ge:3:15:
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed;
it shall bruise thy head,
and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Isa:53:10:
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him;
he hath put him to grief:
when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
he shall see his seed,
he shall prolong his days,
and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Re:21:6:
And he said unto me,
It is done.
I am Alpha and Omega,
the beginning and the end.
I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

That is the message of salvation, the path(s) to that point is already in print.
You have put it together in that very form already, right?

Wisdom comes in a different form. God even tells you how you will find His message. In all of Scripture not one subject is dealth with entirely in one set of verses. Here a bit, there a bit. Hold tight to the sites like you linked too.

Genesis from your site.
Light before creation of sun (and moon) Ge:1 is a name giving chapter. Light and darkness were the first two named things in all of creation. (made) Sun,moon, planets were there when the universe was finished. The nameing of the bodies in Heaven that are responsible for 'time' in/on our world. On that day the current sun and moon and stars were fiven names (only two for us). When those two named ones vanish our journey with God wouold be at about this point in Scripture.

Isa:51:6:
Lift up your eyes to the heavens,
and look upon the earth beneath:
for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke,
and the earth shall wax old like a garment,
and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner:
but my salvation shall be for ever,
and my righteousness shall not be abolished.

Religiously-based claims too often get a free ride; I think they have to take their lumps in the marketplace of ideas the same as anything else does. I've never seen an argument against gay rights, for instance, or abortion, that isn't basically rooted in religious convictions, and I don't think that's good enough to make the case. You're welcome. I wouldn't have done it either, it's an extraordinary amount of work, but I'm glad somebody did it.

So now it's all religion not just the Holy Bible, does Atill the Hun's become unacceptable to you also?


BTW I hope all those Holidays (RCC mandated) are still going well (as long as you don't bring up the subject of God up in front of Dex) Give them the verse that says you don't have to accept their religious HOLYdays as being your own. Then when they want your help in moving heavy furnature you can always claim it is a holy day for you. I stack mine up so I get two weeks worth at once, too bad most of it is 'spend' apologizing for the pause. The old JW Aboriginal lady showed up one day with a new friend, he mentioned that I had not been 'visited' in awhile and wondered out loud why I had left Christ.
The old lady understood my answer and he said "Oh." I highlighted a few comments in their own publication and brought them up the next time they returned I brought them up and I'm still waiting for a return...much like some of the questions I have asked you in the past. Not that I'm banking on any sort of answer.
And now back to your regular programing.

 

[TenPenny]

Fly at it, you intolerable ****************. you!

Oh, no, swearing. I guess we'll have to start a campaign to have you banned.
I can't tolerate this.

 

[JLM]

Maybe your parents were just trying to keep you quiet because you kept asking questions that they had no answer for. Nor is the RCC thirsty for questions from the bench-warmers so even if they had questioned their 'teachers' they would not have been led down any path that involved 100 or so more verses. After all no-one can read the index and know all this is in the later pages without going through all the pages.
The reason I post the verses that I do is that is what led me to believe God meant something is going to happen, just so you know it is GOD doing it here is a description of what is coming because of what has already been written down. No different that you saying 'I'm going to the store and then I'm coming back.".........and then doing just that.....nothing supernatural in that. In fact, in today's carnal world that is a character trait that some use as a guideline as to how close a person gets.

Your link has a point about two family trees, 1 in Matthew and 1 in Luke. 1 for Joesph, heir to the Throne of David (the warrior King), one is for Miriam, sister of Aaron and Moses, High Priest family tree. Mary was a cousin to Elizabeth, wife of Zachariah and daughter of Aaron. The Priest has authority before the coming of the King (and all that entails). One part fulfilled one part remaining.
In a shortened version it would have this so far.

Ge:3:15:
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed;
it shall bruise thy head,
and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Isa:53:10:
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him;
he hath put him to grief:
when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
he shall see his seed,
he shall prolong his days,
and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Re:21:6:
And he said unto me,
It is done.
I am Alpha and Omega,
the beginning and the end.
I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

That is the message of salvation, the path(s) to that point is already in print.
You have put it together in that very form already, right?

Wisdom comes in a different form. God even tells you how you will find His message. In all of Scripture not one subject is dealth with entirely in one set of verses. Here a bit, there a bit. Hold tight to the sites like you linked too.

Genesis from your site.
Light before creation of sun (and moon) Ge:1 is a name giving chapter. Light and darkness were the first two named things in all of creation. (made) Sun,moon, planets were there when the universe was finished. The nameing of the bodies in Heaven that are responsible for 'time' in/on our world. On that day the current sun and moon and stars were fiven names (only two for us). When those two named ones vanish our journey with God wouold be at about this point in Scripture.

Isa:51:6:
Lift up your eyes to the heavens,
and look upon the earth beneath:
for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke,
and the earth shall wax old like a garment,
and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner:
but my salvation shall be for ever,
and my righteousness shall not be abolished.


So now it's all religion not just the Holy Bible, does Atill the Hun's become unacceptable to you also?


BTW I hope all those Holidays (RCC mandated) are still going well (as long as you don't bring up the subject of God up in front of Dex) Give them the verse that says you don't have to accept their religious HOLYdays as being your own. Then when they want your help in moving heavy furnature you can always claim it is a holy day for you. I stack mine up so I get two weeks worth at once, too bad most of it is 'spend' apologizing for the pause. The old JW Aboriginal lady showed up one day with a new friend, he mentioned that I had not been 'visited' in awhile and wondered out loud why I had left Christ.
The old lady understood my answer and he said "Oh." I highlighted a few comments in their own publication and brought them up the next time they returned I brought them up and I'm still waiting for a return...much like some of the questions I have asked you in the past. Not that I'm banking on any sort of answer.
And now back to your regular programing.

I think when you start quoting the Bible you really have to think who the author was and I'll bet it was hundreds of people, shepherds, carpenters, fisherman, lawyers, politicians (biggest liars going) and who know when they made their notes?- at the local bar after a tough day in the fields with 14 grog under their belts?

 

[AnnaG]

I wonder how many ways that I could interpret this and twist it to mean whatever I wanted? Seems to me your happy to apply convenient standards based on what you want to see.



Sure: Clearly the quote you provided was a guideline for etiquette relative to appropriate house warming gifts... Don't buy useless items just 'cause they're on sale.

And the others? I do not doubt you can put your own spin on those, too. lol

Then why have you wasted so much time on this issue?

This is Big Time Sasturday Night for you eh?... Don't be sad for me... Really.

Apparently it's big time saturday night for you, also. So what?
NP, I can try not to pity you, but I usually am unsuccessful in the attempts. I am a humanitarian.

Clearly you are challenging the precepts of others in order to clarify these issues in your own mind.

... As opposed to the assumptions that you make on entire cultures that lived thousands of years ago?... Yeah, tell me all about it.

Hey, at least I offered evidence. What do people get from you but mere opinion. That's pretty sad. 1 poor little opinion in a planet full of them.

That was my way of saying I was joking.. Didn't you get it?

Sorry if I was unclear on that. I promise to respect your independent thoughts :lol: (note: simile face)

(note: I don't care)

 

[AnnaG]

Your judging an entire group right now - it is the same, it's just not convenient for your position.


... Oh, I get it now. The actual molecules that make up a person are entirely independent of the motivations that compel those molecules to act or feel... So, you are judging some kind of seperate electrical force or soul or spirit then?

Doesn't that kinda sink your argument?

Nope. You're contorting my point.

 

[AnnaG]

I don't think so, the internal evidence on the site suggests the guy is a pretty thoroughgoing skeptic. I did indeed say that, and I don't understand why it would confuse you. Citing scripture as a justification for anything is one of the oldest examples around of the argument from authority fallacy. People fall back on it when they can find no other evidence or reason to justify holding a stated belief or position. "The Bible says so" is a conversation stopper for many, presumably on the assumption that it's rude to challenge a person's religious convictions. Religiously-based claims too often get a free ride; I think they have to take their lumps in the marketplace of ideas the same as anything else does. I've never seen an argument against gay rights, for instance, or abortion, that isn't basically rooted in religious convictions, and I don't think that's good enough to make the case. You're welcome. I wouldn't have done it either, it's an extraordinary amount of work, but I'm glad somebody did it.

Well, I agree that the "faithful" have extremely little, if anything, other than the Bible and incredible assumption to fall back on. But you said that they quote it often and then you posted the sceptic's site. He quoted it often, too. *tug*

 

[AnnaG]

I cannot tolerate this sort of brazen intolerance of intolerance.

Fly at it, you intolerable ****************. you!

Time for a new word .... you're both insufferable.