Philosophical motivation to love God.

[petros]

I merely asked you for historical not rhetorical names of any and all successful healings, you know of, by and which tribe, at "the dawn".

That's an easy one but you need to use the native's definition of "medicine" which is "the laying of hands" and the use of medicinal herbs was secondary.
In the central american tribes the medicine man uses Ayahuasca to see inside you body then treats you according spiritual first once again then follows up with the herbs.

 

[Cliffy]

Hey brother those prayers are Still going up you Cliffy

I realize some christians are saying "up you Cliffy",and your condescending attitude is getting tiresome.I use a small "c"because modern christianity has no resemblance to the original. It is a religion about JC not about his teachings. Most of modern dogma is based on the writings of Paul, who, as far as I'm concerned, was a self serving, power hungry bigot. That is why I prefer Paulianity as the monicar of modern christianity but if I called it that you would not know what I'm talking about. It would not matter if I wrote an encyclopedia on the subject of faith healing, you would still refuse to accept any of it because it does not fit into your dogmatic views.

Modern christianity is a house devided with almost 35,000 variantions on the theme, making it incapable of taking over anything much like the Muslims, which is the fastest growing religion on the planet.

 

[bluedog]

Hey boys, in those last two posts I never got the names of any successfully "spiritually healed" patients or their "doctors", just a description of a tribe, a shaman unnamed, and a procedure... Is that your idea of Specific? Wasn't the dawn of man a ways further back? Well you both avoided the answer to my satisfaction. No matter because there was none. Just another belief system without historical evidence.

Speaking of history... Rome was a polytheistic culture right, probably quite a bit of that spiritual magnetism all around the region. That free flowing attraction, that natural love of the god-spirit everywhere....

No, just a minute there... "a Historian, with a pen" wrote:

Back then The Roman armies, under Titus, sealed off Jerusalem, a city of the Empire, keeping anyone from entering or leaving it.

The historian Josephus records:

"The alleys were piled high with the bodies of the aged. Children and young people, swollen from hunger, wandered about like ghosts until they dropped. Those who still survived were so far spent that they couldn't bury anyone, and if they tried, they fell dead upon the corpses themselves. The misery was indescribable. And as soon as even a shadow of something edible appeared anywhere, a fight began over it, and the best of friends fought each other for it.

Those who tried to escape the city went straight into the arms of the Romans...who sent them back with their hands cut off if they were women, or crucified them in full view of the city if they were men."

----Seems the electricity was turned off- huh?
?????"god force" (magnetism) so integral and so hidden in plain sight no-one sees anymore.??????
Nobody saw it that day either.
When was this stuff actually working? Or... did it... only in theory, in some 'mans' mind????

 

[gopher]

''To give Democrats something to squawk about.''

Hush, you Republican!

We used to have Whigs, Populists, and Free Soilers. They were a lot better than those far right Pukies. Yeech!

 

[Dexter Sinister]

164 posts and I still can't figure out what this thread is really about. I haven't a clue how philosophy can lead anyone to love god, philosophy and faith seem to me to be very different things, and often mutually incompatible. Philosophy I think is, at its best, about understanding how things are, what we ought to do about them, and how to rationally and ethically justify what we choose to do, religious-style faith is about how people want things to be and, as far as I can tell, has nothing to do with reality.

 

[Cliffy]

164 posts and I still can't figure out what this thread is really about. I haven't a clue how philosophy can lead anyone to love god, philosophy and faith seem to me to be very different things, and often mutually incompatible. Philosophy I think is, at its best, about understanding how things are, what we ought to do about them, and how to rationally and ethically justify what we choose to do, religious-style faith is about how people want things to be and, as far as I can tell, has nothing to do with reality.

Dex,
It is a language problem. When dealing with people with a religious bent, I find that to get an idea across one must use words that they can relate to. To me faith is trusting in life, not fictional beings. When I talk about faith healing I am talking about energy transfer or manipulation as in acupuncture. It means something different on the surface because they have a different concept but in actuality we are talking about the same thing.

After talking to people with a wide variety of belief systems I saw that each group used different words to say the same thing. I started to study these various religious and spiritual "languages" to find the meanings they attached to the concepts. I used to be much more fluent. I could talk to evangelicals, Mormons, Baha'i, Emissaries in their distinctive "languages". It was all part of my study of human behaviour and psychology.

Any way this conversation with bluedog is over. His narrow view and unwillingness to even try to understand another view point and his self righteous, condescending attitude are not worth the time and energy. Besides, his writing style is almost incomprehensible.

I understand that from a purely scientific point of view, this may sound airy fairy but it is based in science, maybe not one of the fields that you are familiar with.

 

[bluedog]

I've seen this thread as a format to let others show how they love God, as the title says. I have shared how and why my beliefs came to be and the resulting life attempt to do glory to God.

Some agree. Some posters have either refused to acknowledge any god, or have a multigod schema, such as one for the forests, probably one for the lakes and seas as well.
Sill others here have shared how natural scientific laws can be confused with unique "Metaphysical" self mind-ingratiating beliefs.

Acupuncture for one, I believe it not to be any type of mystical miracle but a natural scientific response of the brain, to stressors, not to the mind. The brain has often been shown to rewire itself with damage.
Acupuncture will change patterns of electrical stimulation, not spiritual thought. It increases stimulation in one part of the brain to subvert pain messages to another, like the chemical reaction of adrenalin. Is adrenaline now spiritual? If that chemical is a spiritual experience , maybe illegal drug use is as well as it functions the same. Enough said about that, I don't worship drugs or the perveyors thereof.
To subvert passage does not do God's work to eliminate feelings of pain from your body Permanently! Others above merely distract temporarily.
As to any miraculous healings by acupunture of previously unheathy organs, returning them to health once again. Possibly saving the life on an aborted child...
Those that cause an actual physiological repair scientifically proven... Give me chapter and verse please, only then I will acknowledge your miracle from a needle fix-ation.

 

[darkbeaver]

There are as many ways to appreciate god or the universe as there are living individuals. The exercise going on in this and other threads is recorded on cave walls in the art of long dead fillosserfers. I guess religion is a problem. The comodification of the god concept is a problem. Lemme tell you about god. It's it's ummm you know like ummmm got any beer left.

 

[petros]

I've seen this thread as a format to let others show how they love God

Cool. So then use it to also show how god loves or doesn't love back.

 

[Cliffy]

Those that cause an actual physiological repair scientifically proven... Give me chapter and verse please, only then I will acknowledge your miracle from a needle fix-ation.

You want chapter and verse from societies that had no written language! You only accept written proof but are adamant that a work of fiction is the only true word of god. How can one communicate with such a person? You set the parameters of the discussion to suit your narrow view of reality and refuse to acknowledge anything else. I believe that is call jury rigging.

 

[darkbeaver]

I've seen this thread as a format to let others show how they love God, as the title says. I have shared how and why my beliefs came to be and the resulting life attempt to do glory to God.

Some agree. Some posters have either refused to acknowledge any god, or have a multigod schema, such as one for the forests, probably one for the lakes and seas as well.
Sill others here have shared how natural scientific laws can be confused with unique "Metaphysical" self mind-ingratiating beliefs.

Acupuncture for one, I believe it not to be any type of mystical miracle but a natural scientific response of the brain, to stressors, not to the mind. The brain has often been shown to rewire itself with damage.
Acupuncture will change patterns of electrical stimulation, not spiritual thought. It increases stimulation in one part of the brain to subvert pain messages to another, like the chemical reaction of adrenalin. Is adrenaline now spiritual? If that chemical is a spiritual experience , maybe illegal drug use is as well as it functions the same. Enough said about that, I don't worship drugs or the perveyors thereof.
To subvert passage does not do God's work to eliminate feelings of pain from your body Permanently! Others above merely distract temporarily.
As to any miraculous healings by acupunture of previously unheathy organs, returning them to health once again. Possibly saving the life on an aborted child...
Those that cause an actual physiological repair scientifically proven... Give me chapter and verse please, only then I will acknowledge your miracle from a needle fix-ation.

But you do worship drugs every carrot you gulp down is laced with them. I used to be adicked to carrots, I know what you're going through. Stop fibbin.:smile:

 

[bluedog]

You want chapter and verse from societies that had no written language! You only accept written proof but are adamant that a work of fiction is the only true word of god. How can one communicate with such a person? You set the parameters of the discussion to suit your narrow view of reality and refuse to acknowledge anything else. I believe that is call jury rigging.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Good Reverend Cliffy!!

It was YOU who said it was happening since the dawn of time. Not me.
Where is YOUR PROOF, the "speculation" by self proclaimed "historians"? Lets see. Is it a rock or a weapon... hmmm.. your opinion?

Aren't they and YOUR "theories" popular in only "specially enlightened" peoples minds such as yours, huh? Is your idea of history based merely on a tradition of other enlightened "historians" edited in your own mind for accuracy? Sounds narrow. It is all repeated theory that you perpetuate and ATTEMPT to validate with your paperback books? Cliffy you acknowledge AND that you are self taught, you ALSO admit you don't claim the "historians" degrees or years of study... but, you have the books!

Jeesh. Now... Reverend Cliffy, if as you say oral tradition is Sooooooo important, and perceived as FACT by you as well as many other enlightened ones... what of the ORAL tradition of the Hebrew people? WHY are they "identified" as FICTION?... why?
Personal prejudice? Naaaaawww!!!
They don't count because they don't fit your -NOT- narrow (your words) point of view! Why is that I have to wonder? Surely, their "absolute" God to them is as absolute as your "studies" have shown others cafeteria/buffet model.

(By the way, all of your tribes had rocks too, they could have developed a written language long long ago, especially about things like raising people from the dead. Yet. Nothing. Speculative Paintings maybe. Although not a written word, not even of conquests. Why not?)

Brother Cliff, The Bible has been questioned by thousands for thousands of years, all for naught... do you think your paperbacks will help defeat the purpose? Really? Fairly grandiose of you. Reality check. Ummm... Drug History please, AND- please list your current medications as well as those prescribed but never filled. (Smile) Just so that we can get a realistic impression.

Now scientific theorem. Oral history vs Written. Neolithic man said "ugh" does that mean our language is equivalent because he used the voice-box? What did your tribes and other civilizations do with that "valuable" oral tradition, did it spread worldwide? "Survival and Success over time"... (scientific method) What have Christians and Hebrews done "with it"... Hmmm...

In summation:
Success over time of any Oral AND Written evidence in the "scientific model" rates well above wall paintings and oral tradition as theories of evidence. You KNOW THAT.

*************************************************
Jeesh. Hey Brother... How does it feel to get hit with your own baseball bat? Jeesh! We love you, and your Savior does too. You are a little thick sometimes, as we all are. God ain't done with ALL of us yet bro!

Cliffy, never despair. PM us!:fish: