Somalia & The Pirates

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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There are almost 200 countries in the UN. Why would you think responsibility should be limited to the 5 security council members?

Because those five nations are the only serious military powers in the world. Some more than others but still.

Why should the US have to be involved in this? The US has kept the world safe and done most of the heavy lifting for the past 60 years. For every VietNam or Iraq there are 100 other countries that progressed during this time under the US military umbrella. With the exception of the UK, what has Europe done other than remain free during the entire cold war relying on the US defense budget. Where and when have sanctions every worked? Not Iran. Not Cuba. Not North Korea. If other countries won't step up to the plate I think the US miliary should ride shotgun for US merchant vessels . That should be the extent of US involvement.

Yeah, well many hands make for light work. Besides the US could use some friends at the moment and providing security along with the four other nations would be good as anything else in building cooperation among them as a unified world police force.

I am sure that other countries could find ways to assist that if they really wanted to.

As for carrying the load, so what? The US gets special status as the Super Power, it can do the Super Work.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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Minnesota: Gopher State
Somali pirates have been screwing around in that gulf for over a decade and nobody bothered to stop them until now. Good move by Obama to do what nobody else was willing to do.
 

normbc9

Electoral Member
Nov 23, 2006
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It was announced tonight that two US surveillance sattellites have been given corrected orbit instructions for inctreased surveillance of the East Africa coast and the waters in the Indian Ocean and the Gulf araes where the pirates frequent. From my own past experience I would interpret that to mean that the new focus of these two eyes in the sky (out of more than 70 from the US) will be identifying the vessels being used, then track them and if trouble does surface I'll bet there will either be a visit from a Predator drone or an AC-130 for the purpose of sending the vessel(s) to the bottom. Like Gopher, I applaud the decision by President Obama to address this problem head on! If it were my call I'd identfy the ports harboring these vessels and then wait until they enter the open seas and dispense with them immediately. No vessels or mode of maritime travel and hopefully the pirate issues will subside to a more manageable level.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
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Regina, SK
Somali pirates have been screwing around in that gulf for over a decade and nobody bothered to stop them until now. Good move by Obama to do what nobody else was willing to do.
Too bad it's not always that simple. This was a U.S. registered ship, owned by a U.S. company, flying the U.S. flag, with a U.S. crew and captain, in international waters. There were no jurisdictional issues, the U.S. Navy could take whatever action it deemed appropriate, and it did exactly the right thing in my opinion, which amounts to "shoot the bastards." More commonly it'll be a ship owned by a company in country A, carrying a cargo under contract for a company in country B, the ship will be flying a flag of convenience from country C, with a crew from 19 different countries, and there are serious jurisdictional issues in terms of international law and the law of the sea about who can do what to whom. Only very rarely will there be such a clear cut case as this one.

The solution seems obvious to me: run merchant ships through that Somali pirate zone in convoys, with an international naval escort. It's worked before.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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I am only thankful to the Capt. of the USS Bainbridge for having the guts to do something to resolve the hostage situation. He put his career on the line. He had the Navy Seals at his disposal. If something had gone wrong do you really think anyone would have come forward to say at least he tried. All other are just taking credit for a Commodore doing what he is paid to do.
 

mit

Electoral Member
Nov 26, 2008
273
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SouthWestern Ontario
Let's see - The pirates have speed boats and zodiacs and are out in open seas with no fishing nets or purpose for being there. From many media pictures it is clear that their RPG's and weapons are visible at times. I do not know why these boats are not stopped or sunk if they choose not too. Coming from a Great Lakes fishing village - several times fishing tugs would come back with bullet holes in the bridge courtesy of the US Coast Guard - And that was just to protect fish?
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
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Let's see - The pirates have speed boats and zodiacs and are out in open seas with no fishing nets or purpose for being there. From many media pictures it is clear that their RPG's and weapons are visible at times. I do not know why these boats are not stopped or sunk if they choose not too. Coming from a Great Lakes fishing village - several times fishing tugs would come back with bullet holes in the bridge courtesy of the US Coast Guard - And that was just to protect fish?

Sounds like except for the vast area of ocean to cover that it should be fairly easy to spot the pirates, not many 30-40 foot high speed boats operating 50 to 200+ miles off shore with no fishing gear on board. Good question Mit.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Johann Hari: You are being lied to about pirates

Some are clearly just gangsters. But others are trying to stop illegal dumping and trawling


The words of one pirate from that lost age, a young British man called William Scott, should echo into this new age of piracy. Just before he was hanged in Charleston, South Carolina, he said: "What I did was to keep me from perishing. I was forced to go a-pirateing to live." In 1991, the government of Somalia collapsed. Its nine million people have been teetering on starvation ever since – and the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country's food supply and dump our nuclear waste in their seas.
Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died.
Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, the UN envoy to Somalia, tells me: "Somebody is dumping nuclear material here. There is also lead, and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury – you name it." Much of it can be traced back to European hospitals and factories, who seem to be passing it on to the Italian mafia to "dispose" of cheaply. When I asked Mr Ould-Abdallah what European governments were doing about it, he said with a sigh: "Nothing. There has been no clean-up, no compensation, and no prevention."
At the same time, other European ships have been looting Somalia's seas of their greatest resource: seafood. We have destroyed our own fish stocks by overexploitation – and now we have moved on to theirs. More than $300m-worth of tuna, shrimp, and lobster are being stolen every year by illegal trawlers. The local fishermen are now starving. Mohammed Hussein, a fisherman in the town of Marka 100km south of Mogadishu, told Reuters: "If nothing is done, there soon won't be much fish left in our coastal waters."
This is the context in which the "pirates" have emerged. Somalian fishermen took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least levy a "tax" on them. They call themselves the Volunteer Coastguard of Somalia – and ordinary Somalis agree. The independent Somalian news site WardheerNews found 70 per cent "strongly supported the piracy as a form of national defence".
No, this doesn't make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters – especially those who have held up World Food Programme supplies. But in a telephone interview, one of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali: "We don't consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits [to be] those who illegally fish and dump in our seas." William Scott would understand.
Did we expect starving Somalians to stand passively on their beaches, paddling in our toxic waste, and watch us snatch their fish to eat in restaurants in London and Paris and Rome? We won't act on those crimes – the only sane solution to this problem – but when some of the fishermen responded by disrupting the transit-corridor for 20 per cent of the world's oil supply, we swiftly send in the gunboats.
The story of the 2009 war on piracy was best summarised by another pirate, who lived and died in the fourth century BC. He was captured and brought to Alexander the Great, who demanded to know "what he meant by keeping possession of the sea." The pirate smiled, and responded: "What you mean by seizing the whole earth; but because I do it with a petty ship, I am called a robber, while you, who do it with a great fleet, are called emperor." Once again, our great imperial fleets sail – but who is the robber?
Johann Hari: You are being lied to about pirates - Johann Hari, Commentators - The Independent
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Boy, there is enough testosterone on this thread to give Godzilla a woody!

And there-in lies our safety valve, specimins like these testy bastards cannot handle the extra demands on thier best beyonded bodies and ideas like woodies normally siezes thier sticky little blood pumps or takes out thier command and control units.:smile:
 

missile

House Member
Dec 1, 2004
4,846
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Granted the pirates may have slightly honorable intentions with their actions,but it's the rest of the world against them & they're going to lose bigtime. The entire country seems to be a free fire zone and some kind of government with authority needs to be established there. BTW,Obama did the right thing.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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Granted the pirates may have slightly honorable intentions with their actions,but it's the rest of the world against them & they're going to lose bigtime. The entire country seems to be a free fire zone and some kind of government with authority needs to be established there. BTW,Obama did the right thing.

What honorable intentions can thieves and killers have? Yes there country is in ruins, no other country's want them. (sound familiar) Warlords and Crimelords rule everything. We cannot blame the world for this happening, but we can blame the world for letting it continue. The United States did do the right thing.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Somali pirates have been screwing around in that gulf for over a decade and nobody bothered to stop them until now. Good move by Obama to do what nobody else was willing to do.

Somalis have taken advantage of thier coast since the damn water was put there. That made it easy to change thier labels from subsistance fishers to bloodthirsty pirates. It's in reality a tiny little drama engineered by the puppet masters to entertain ****heads like us. Obama has nothing to do with anything except running the colour comentary he's possibly not made a decision in a decade. He has zero conscience, he is a psycopath and therefore a polished dangerous liar. He'll sign any order and I have no doubt he will send millions to thier deaths in the very near future.