Somalia & The Pirates

[Unforgiven]

Theres a problem with trying to turn a country around.
We see it in Afghanistan now. A good portion of the people don't care. If the people want it and only need some support to gain the upper hand, there is a good chance of turning the country around. If they don't care one way or the other, then you're wasting your time.

So it's Somalia's problem to sort out. If they choose not to sort it out, then they don't need to access the sea anymore. Sitting off the coast and creating mine fields to limit access puts the problem in the hands of the Somali people and government, what there is of it, to get control.

Controlling the sea is like owning the air space. Somalia doesn't have some navy to send out in opposition, they have rag tag pirates that prey on some easy pickings. Cut the chaff from the grain and then we can deal with the real guys running the pirate show there now.

We can watch the whole coast of Somalia for artillery from space and respond pretty quick to that sort of threat if we don't worry that a Mosque or some people standing next to the artillery are killed or injured. That's the price to make them pay if they want to export crime. Should any of the countries around Somalia want to protect their borders then bless their hearts, let them go to it.

 

[ironsides]

It is all over, the Captain is safe and 1 pirate captured rest slain.

 

[bobnoorduyn]

Now you know where I am.

Gh, I know when we first met, you didn't like my sorta "Killem all and let Allah sort them out" mentality. I don't much like that about myself either and at times, I just plain don't like myself at all.

The thoughts you express on this thread compared to others present a bit of a dichotomy, but now I understand you a bit more. I agree with some of what you say and not so much with other things. But hey, if we all agreed on everything what fun would there be? ;-)

 

[darkbeaver]

I hope Somalia is saved from western destruction.

 

[Unforgiven]

I hope Somalia is saved from western destruction.

Maybe if Somalia saved itself the West wouldn't have to be so destructive as often.

 

[jjaycee98]

Somali has no real Government at present. All is Anarchy and Rebels doing whatever they want. Sooner or later someone has to go in and clean up the mess for the sake of the ordinary people. This is a job for the UN. They as a group have to be willing to organize a International force to go in there and do what has to be done.

 

[gerryh]

Somali has no real Government at present. All is Anarchy and Rebels doing whatever they want. Sooner or later someone has to go in and clean up the mess for the sake of the ordinary people. This is a job for the UN. They as a group have to be willing to organize a International force to go in there and do what has to be done.

In the mean time.....those that have ship's plying that area of the world need to take a hardline with these miscreants and show them that THEY don't own the sea lanes.

 

[darkbeaver]

Maybe if Somalia saved itself the West wouldn't have to be so destructive as often.

They can't get the west out of thier country, the west destroyed them and keeps them down. You see there may be some resources there that can be had cheaply if the people are kept down. So the people are murdered as necessary and thier coastal zones are depleted of fish and filled with toxic waste from Europe.

 

[bobnoorduyn]

I hope Somalia is saved from western destruction.

Western destruction? They're doing a pretty good job of it on their own without any help, Western or otherwise.

 

[darkbeaver]

Somali has no real Government at present. All is Anarchy and Rebels doing whatever they want. Sooner or later someone has to go in and clean up the mess for the sake of the ordinary people. This is a job for the UN. They as a group have to be willing to organize a International force to go in there and do what has to be done.

Thier last democratic government they had was destroyed by Western backed Ethiopian forces, The Islamic Courts were restoring order and good government but because they were not selected or favoured by the west they could not be allowed to stand for thier people, consequently many thousands more Somalians must die for the bankers.

 

[gerryh]

consequently many thousands more Somalians must die for the bankers.

:roll::roll::roll:

 

[darkbeaver]

The blank look and the rolling eyes are really you gerry. Bankers money root of all evil--------I guess you missed that at your sunday union meetings.

 

[CDNBear]

The thoughts you express on this thread compared to others present a bit of a dichotomy, but now I understand you a bit more.

I'm a series of dualities and a constant struggle Bob. I know what man is capable of, I know what I'm capable of. I've seen enough ugly. It changed some of me and solidified some of me. ;-)

I agree with some of what you say and not so much with other things. But hey, if we all agreed on everything what fun would there be? ;-)

I agree and hey, I pretty much like ya just the way ya are, so there...:lol:

 

[Kreskin]

Great news that the Amazing Obama saved the captain.

 

[Unforgiven]

Thier last democratic government they had was destroyed by Western backed Ethiopian forces, The Islamic Courts were restoring order and good government but because they were not selected or favoured by the west they could not be allowed to stand for thier people, consequently many thousands more Somalians must die for the bankers.

By the "West" you mean the Soviet Union and Cuba and by restoring order and good government you mean selling the infrastructure of cities like Mogadishu so that there wasn't even lights during the night time?

 

[Ron in Regina]

Great news that the Amazing Obama saved the captain.

_________________

 

[ironsides]

Somali has no real Government at present. All is Anarchy and Rebels doing whatever they want. Sooner or later someone has to go in and clean up the mess for the sake of the ordinary people. This is a job for the UN. They as a group have to be willing to organize a International force to go in there and do what has to be done.

The U.N. tried doing something in Somalia, they were thrown out. your right, it is a shame about what is happening to the innocents, but to many have already died trying to free them. Maybe in another time they can be helped.

 

[RanchHand]

I cannot understand how either the UN or a miliatary force composed of EU countries (minus the UK) could not find protecting these sea lanes a job made in heaven for them. As far as the captured pirate, he should be used as chum. Gitmo should be a lesson for the US.

 

[Unforgiven]

I see the political tumoil in Somalia as an internal problem like a civil war. The pirate issue is different in that it directly affects people and property belonging to and citizens of countries that can and will do something about it.

I see the role of the UN to be the single voice to praise or condem activity within a country and apply sanctions on trade to isolate if need be, but unless there is an outward act of agression upon another country then it's hands off.

The five members of the security council I feel should pony up a standing army that takes care of problems like this where a failed state turns into a problem for everyone.

 

[RanchHand]

I see the political tumoil in Somalia as an internal problem like a civil war. The pirate issue is different in that it directly affects people and property belonging to and citizens of countries that can and will do something about it.

I see the role of the UN to be the single voice to praise or condem activity within a country and apply sanctions on trade to isolate if need be, but unless there is an outward act of agression upon another country then it's hands off.

The five members of the security council I feel should pony up a standing army that takes care of problems like this where a failed state turns into a problem for everyone.

There are almost 200 countries in the UN. Why would you think responsibility should be limited to the 5 security council members? Why should the US have to be involved in this? The US has kept the world safe and done most of the heavy lifting for the past 60 years. For every VietNam or Iraq there are 100 other countries that progressed during this time under the US military umbrella. With the exception of the UK, what has Europe done other than remain free during the entire cold war relying on the US defense budget. Where and when have sanctions every worked? Not Iran. Not Cuba. Not North Korea. If other countries won't step up to the plate I think the US miliary should ride shotgun for US merchant vessels . That should be the extent of US involvement.