The Improbability of God

[eanassir]

Wasn't there a list rather that just 1 single reason for the destruction.

Of course, MHz, in addition to their homosexuality, they were wrong-doers and transgressors on the wayfarers. Moreover, they were associaters and disobeyed their apostle Lot.

This is in the Quran

This is in the Quran 17: 15​

مَّنِ اهْتَدَى فَإِنَّمَا يَهْتَدي لِنَفْسِهِ وَمَن ضَلَّ فَإِنَّمَا يَضِلُّ عَلَيْهَا وَلاَ تَزِرُ وَازِرَةٌ وِزْرَ أُخْرَى وَمَا كُنَّا مُعَذِّبِينَ حَتَّى نَبْعَثَ رَسُولاً​

The explanation:
(Anyone who accepts guidance; it is only for [the benefit of] his own soul;
and anyone who errs, errs only against it.
No soul bearing its own load [of sins] may bear the load [of sins] of another [soul.]
Nor used We to punish unless We had sent an apostle.)​

 

[L Gilbert]

Until the religious get a grasp on the numbers behind the words of the religious books there will never be spiritual enlightenment.

Numerology, cool.

 

[L Gilbert]

........

You have to know that my God is the same Lord of all nations and worlds: the Creator, Who sent all the apostles to all nations. He is the same Allah in Arabic, Yahweh in Hebrew and God in English and He may be called by other names in other languages..........

In my "religion" and language, gods are called "fictitious".

 

[L Gilbert]

Think of it as a boxer, if the left doesn't get you the right one will.
In reality you might get there via the 3rd door which is called the grace of the Lord which is just by the skin of your teeth but in is in and anyway is better than not in. That would be the kick to the groin that gets you on one knee in record time.

Logically, then, if you believe in one, then you should believe in them all.One would not have enough time in a lifetime to be able to devote to all these beliefs. There's another reason to be atheistical. lol We actually have time for eating, sleeping, enjoying life, etc.

 

[L Gilbert]

Now I know for certain that you are like Scott Free and Dexter; this is what I (the fanatic that you pointed out) told some members one day; that "if no afterlife, you will lose nothing, but in case there is the afterlife, then surely the atheist will lose." Which is the word of some Imams to a skeptic. This is only to persuade any skeptic to follow the truth of the Quran and the afterlife.

Yep..... fearmongering. Nice attribute. It isn't worth believing in if it has to resort to coercion and fearmongering.

While to me, I am certain about God and the aftelife, to which I don't waver even a little bit.

Oh, well. We all have our little failures of character, so don't feel bad.

 

[L Gilbert]

YouTube - Periodic Table Of Elements Song With Lyrics

Hey!! That's awesome!! (Really cool, too.)
Reminds me of Stompin Tom's "I've Been Everywhere" - Stompin Tom Connors - I've Been Everywhere Lyrics

 

[L Gilbert]

Good day, Gilbert! Here, the sun god is sleeping, or perhaps it is true that the clouds are below heaven. Must check the good books.

Hiya!!
Ra is definitely out in force here today. Think I will start calling "Sunday" "Ray Day" on days like this. Now I'll have to think of what to call them when Ra isn't out in force.

 

[L Gilbert]

Of course, MHz, in addition to their homosexuality, they were wrong-doers and transgressors on the wayfarers. Moreover, they were associaters and disobeyed their apostle Lot.

This is in the Quran

This is in the Quran 17: 15​

مَّنِ اهْتَدَى فَإِنَّمَا يَهْتَدي لِنَفْسِهِ وَمَن ضَلَّ فَإِنَّمَا يَضِلُّ عَلَيْهَا وَلاَ تَزِرُ وَازِرَةٌ وِزْرَ أُخْرَى وَمَا كُنَّا مُعَذِّبِينَ حَتَّى نَبْعَثَ رَسُولاً​

The explanation:
(Anyone who accepts guidance; it is only for [the benefit of] his own soul;
and anyone who errs, errs only against it.
No soul bearing its own load [of sins] may bear the load [of sins] of another [soul.]

Nor used We to punish unless We had sent an apostle.)​

Aaahhh, guilt by association. Why are you associating with us blasphemers then?
And yet another reason to be atheist.

 

[petros]

Should have been called Raday or RAyday. lol Would have been more logical.

Hmmm. When I think of " a man in a canoe" Ra rarely comes to mind.

 

[L Gilbert]

Many things detract my attention from suns, too.

 

[eanassir]

Yup. Mass murderer. I'd definitely want to believe in and glorify a mass murderer.............. if I was insane.

He created them; He is their Lord and Owner. He does what He please: blesses them if they do righteousness and punishes them if they become wicked and transgressors.

 

[L Gilbert]

He created them; He is their Lord and Owner. He does what He please: blesses them if they do righteousness and punishes them if they become wicked and transgressors.

Nuts. It is more plausible that nature is indifferent to human action and just makes earthquakes & whatnot at random.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

YouTube - Periodic Table Of Elements Song With Lyrics

Petros, I was aware of that song. The song is by Prof. Tom Lehrer, a very talented writer at University of Harvard (besides of course, being an excellent scientist, he has to be, if he is a professor at Harvard).

He has written many excellent songs. The song of the elements is set to the tune of the Major General’s song from G and S opera ‘The Pirates of Penzance’. I will reproduce one verse here (there are three), it goes as follows:

I am the very model of a modern Major-General,
I've information vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I know the kings of England, and I quote the fights
historical
From Marathon to Waterloo, in order categorical;
I'm very well acquainted, too, with matters
mathematical,
I understand equations, both the simple and
quadratical,
About binomial theorem I'm teeming with a lot o' news,
With many cheerful facts about the square of the
hypotenuse.

Here is a link to another animation for the same song. Again, the music is the same as the Major General’s Song.

Tom Lehrer's "The Elements". A Flash animation by Mike Stanfill, Private Hand

 

[Spade]

SJP, you may be off topic. To bring it back "The Ride of the Valkyries." Man, those Norse gods and goddesses we tough!
YouTube - "The RIde of the Valkyries" from Die Walkure

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I said in the reply # 275...

A critical thinking micro-lesson for you (my comments in blue):

"Any object and any action has its creator or doer."
It means there is the Creator of the universe and its systems and laws and rules; He caused the movement of every moving object and created all animate and inanimate beings.

That's not an argument, it's an assumption from which you immediately exempt the Creator, thus invalidating it. It's the logical fallacy called begging the question: you assume the truth of what you're trying to demonstrate. It's also the intelligent design argument, which is easily falsified.

In another reply, I said the atheist clinged to the very very little probability and left the extremely large probability of the object been created by a creator, and that it cannot be the universe came to existence haphazardly and spontaneously of its own accord.

You'll never get anywhere with that argument from probability. You have no way of establishing a priori probabilities, you are again simply assuming nothing could happen in the absence of a creator. This is sometimes called the argument from incredulity, which is usually either also the argument from authority or the begging the question fallacy.

But to me I am certain, and there is no way of any probability other than the absolute certainty about God's existence.

Yes, I'm aware of that, but it's still just an assumption, not a fact you can establish.

What I cited of the Quran is to confirm such words; and you will not follow any scientific way unless you consider and contemplate and think deeply about the meaning of the Quran, or else you are only trying to make an evasion; and I think your stubborn way of denial and rejecting the Quran is only some defense psychological means to protect yourself from considering and thinking about the wisdom included in every word of the ayat of the Quran.

I have read the Quran, in several translations, and it struck me as foolish, repetitive, and dull. Here you're resorting to that old standby of the religious crowd, the ad hominem fallacy. Citing the Quran as proof of your claims is the argument from authority fallacy, until you've established the legitimacy of the authority, which you haven't done, you've simply assumed it, which is begging the question again.

To examine yourself and to check is my word true; resort to the ayat in the beginning of soorah 22 (22: 5-7)
Here God – be exalted – gave two arguments to the existence of the afterlife: the sending to the afterlife: the spiritual life there, and that there will be no return of the bodies to life again ––– (1) the creation of man from dust then from scanty seminal fluid, then the stages of embryonic development inside the womb of the mother, then birth, maturity, elderly, then death.
The other argument ––– (2) the rain water falling on some desolate land and reviving of such dead land, by the water.

Those aren't arguments either, they're just unsubstantiated claims or descriptions of natural processes that need no divine intervention to explain. I don't doubt that your reports about what the Quran says are true, but that doesn't mean the Quran itself is true. I found it full of absurdity, cruelty, inconsistency, and errors of fact and logic. Much like the Bible.

 

[Cliffy]

SJP, you may be off topic. To bring it back "The Ride of the Valkyries." Man, those Norse gods and goddesses we tough!

Spade,
I never took you for a Norseman but you seem to really like those guys. Do you ever feel you were born a few centuries late. I identified with the aboriginal peoples so much that sometimes I feel like I was born in the wrong century (or I'm a reincarnated injun).

An old medicine man once told me, "See all those drunk indians out there? They are reincarnated white men who screwed the red man over. His only salvation is learn the indian's traditional ways so that he can understand what it was that he tried to destroy."

 

[Spade]

Spade,
I never took you for a Norseman but you seem to really like those guys. Do you ever feel you were born a few centuries late. I identified with the aboriginal peoples so much that sometimes I feel like I was born in the wrong century (or I'm a reincarnated injun).

An old medicine man once told me, "See all those drunk indians out there? They are reincarnated white men who screwed the red man over. His only salvation is learn the indian's traditional ways so that he can understand what it was that he tried to destroy."

No, I'm not Norwegian, but I chose those gods to begin with because they are better known than others and have an English-language connection (from the days of the week). But, I'm sure I have many Norse cousins.
PS
Removing language and religion was a deliberate government policy to assimilate the Natives in Canada. Perhaps one reason we Canadians get so incensed about accommodating newcomers is because, historically, we are so unused to making allowances for others.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

The punishment of the homosexual: the subject and the object (or the doer and the one acted on) both of them will be punished, but not to death penalty; it is some milder punishment: either some lashes or imprisonment: I am not certain about this; it is written some where in the interpretation some of which is not available now with me.

Sorry, eanassir, but that is not true, in most Islamic countries (such as Iran, Saudi Arabia etc.) homosexuals are routinely put to death. When Iranian PM visited USA, he proudly proclaimed that there are no homosexuals in Iran. Now it is not possible that there were no homosexuals in Iran, there has been homosexuality since the beginning of humankind (indeed, even before humankind, animals display homosexual behavior).

So how come there are no homosexuals in Iran, what happened to them? Why they were (and are being put to death), of course.

So it may be your interpretation that homosexuals are punished by lashes (even that sounds horrible, indeed that homosexuals should be punished at all is barbaric and shows the vicious and nasty nature of Islam).

Anyway, homosexuals are put to death, so are women put to death routinely, the so called honor killing, where a man is permitted to kill his wife, his mother, his sister and his daughter, for supposedly spoiling his honour.

So let us see, homosexuals are put to death, women who commit adultery are stoned to death, any woman can be killed by her father, her son, her brother etc. if that father, son or brother thinks that his honour has been violated.

And this is the religion that you proclaim is the true religion, the one that everybody should embrace? Well, you can keep it. I have no desire to kill my wife, my mother or my sister (I don’t have a daughter), no matter what they do.

Really the more I study about religion, the more glad I become that I am indeed an Atheist.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Eanassir, I don’t know what kind of punishment Islam mandates for homosexuals (although going by what they do in most Islamic countries, the punishment is death). However, Bible does prescribe death penalty of homosexuals.

If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads

Leviticus 20:13

 

[Dexter Sinister]

The Quran I don't think mandates any specific punishment for homosexuality, but it certainly does condemn it as unnatural and claims (falsely, as you pointed out) that no other creatures do it.