Russian Planes Approach Canadian Airspace

[Machjo]

Oh, by the way, in case anyone's forgotten, Putin was democratically elected. And the USSR is dead. It doesn't exist anymore. From a modern perspective, Russia is the rebirth of a nation that hadn't existed as its own political entity for a number of decades. Also, the Communist Party of Russia was dissolved in 1991 (though a new party of the same name has since re-emerged, granted).During part of his time in power, he wasn't even a member of any political party himself, though he had pledged his support to the newly formed Unity Party, though he has since become a member of that party.

So it doesn't seem to me, after all the changes Russia has gone through in recent decades, that the actions of the USSR are particularly relevent to events since, including this one.

 

[Colpy]

let me try and make the point with a simple comparison:

I'll make an even simpler collary. What was the ultimate goal for each country (or "empire" to use your terminology)?

World domination.

Baloney.

If world domination were the goal of the USA, the USSR would have been a smoking ruin before 1950. The USA did have a window of opportunity to militarily eliminate any opposition, as they were the only ones with nuclear weapons technology.

They chose, instead, to rebuild Europe, to write Japan a liberal democratic Constitution, and to gradually withdraw from the nations they had conquered, and then rebuilt, at great expense in lives and resources.

Compare that to the actions of the USSR, and it becomes very obvious who the "good guys" are, in relative terms............

Take off the blinders.....

 

[Tyr]

Baloney.

If world domination were the goal of the USA, the USSR would have been a smoking ruin before 1950. The USA did have a window of opportunity to militarily eliminate any opposition, as they were the only ones with nuclear weapons technology.

They chose, instead, to rebuild Europe, to write Japan a liberal democratic Constitution, and to gradually withdraw from the nations they had conquered, and then rebuilt, at great expense in lives and resources.

Compare that to the actions of the USSR, and it becomes very obvious who the "good guys" are, in relative terms............

Take off the blinders.....

They chose, instead, to rebuild Europe

...in their own mold and to their economic advantage (emerging markets)

to write Japan a liberal democratic Constitution

Did Japan have a choice or ask for one? see above

and to gradually withdraw from the nations they had conquered, and then rebuilt, at great expense in lives and resources.

Also see above. That would have been the allies (including Canada). Not the USA on it's own.

Your undyiong love for everything and anything American is embarassing to me as a Canadian.

 

[petros]

The blinders are believing one brand of freedom is better than another but in reality they are sold by a single source.

 

[Tyr]

Baloney.

If world domination were the goal of the USA, the USSR would have been a smoking ruin before 1950. The USA did have a window of opportunity to militarily eliminate any opposition, as they were the only ones with nuclear weapons technology.

They chose, instead, to rebuild Europe, to write Japan a liberal democratic Constitution, and to gradually withdraw from the nations they had conquered, and then rebuilt, at great expense in lives and resources.

Compare that to the actions of the USSR, and it becomes very obvious who the "good guys" are, in relative terms............

Take off the blinders.....

If world domination were the goal of the USA

Manifest Destiny, Monroe Doctorine, etc.... Should I go on?

 

[Machjo]

I have no dubt in my mind that Reagan and his ilk sincerely believed in their cause, that the USA was the model for the world to emulate. It was the best, superior, perhaps even perfect; and that if the USA could just impose its own values on the world, the world would eventually come to recognize that the USA was right, and then become eternally grateful. Unfortunately, the USA just never could fathom the idea that there might be different systems around the world, each influenced by their own distinct cultures. And that no, the US system is not a one-size-fits-all system, but one uniquely formed to cater to circumstances in the USA, like any other system. The USSR had similar attitudes, and this was the major cause of conflict between the two sides. Each side was right and everyone else, especially the other, was wrong. Each side had a s a goal to liberate the people from the evel empire that the other was. Needless to say, their views were not only incompatible, but outright threatening the one to the other. While certain systems allow for universal vitory, for everyone and all sides to win, this kind of mentality requires a loser. Winning thus becomes conditional upon the loss and humiliation of the other. And since no one likes the thought of losing, a stalemate was the only solution ntil one collapsed.

 

[Tyr]

Oh, by the way, in case anyone's forgotten, Putin was democratically elected. And the USSR is dead. It doesn't exist anymore. From a modern perspective, Russia is the rebirth of a nation that hadn't existed as its own political entity for a number of decades. Also, the Communist Party of Russia was dissolved in 1991 (though a new party of the same name has since re-emerged, granted).During part of his time in power, he wasn't even a member of any political party himself, though he had pledged his support to the newly formed Unity Party, though he has since become a member of that party.

So it doesn't seem to me, after all the changes Russia has gone through in recent decades, that the actions of the USSR are particularly relevent to events since, including this one.

So it doesn't seem to me, after all the changes Russia has gone through in recent decades, that the actions of the USSR are particularly relevent to events since, including this one.

They're not. The "evil empire" dies in Afghanistan, just as The American evil empire will dissolve in Iraq/Afghanistan.

The relevance is moot

 

[Machjo]

I wouldn't call the US an evil empire, just an arrogant one.

 

[Colpy]

If world domination were the goal of the USA

Manifest Destiny, Monroe Doctorine, etc.... Should I go on?

Still not a clue what you are talking about...........Monroe Doctrine considers only the western hemisphere, and involves only the influence in that area of other major powers.....much like the British have traditionally refused to allow iany other major power to control the low lands......."Manifest Destiny" is a 19th century doctrine that has been dead for 100 years......and dealt solely with the continent of North America.

So deal with my point about the contrast of behaviours between the USA and USSR.....and quit tossing out straw men about which you know nothing.......

 

[MHz]

If world domination were the goal of the USA

Manifest Destiny, Monroe Doctorine, etc.... Should I go on?

Do you think a link to the Bush I New World Order speech would help Colpy catch up to speed? (not that the design just started with that speech) Colpy understands the wants of Europe to be free from US influence, in any and all matters) as being just a sign of the ungratefulness for all the wonderful the US did for them (I forget which post that was).
What did Poland get for allowing those missiles in?

 

[Spade]

What did Poland get for allowing those missiles in?

Rendition sites.
The Raw Story | Soviet-era compound in northern Poland was site of secret CIA interrogation, detentions

 

[MHz]

Besides that, and they probably had them already anyway so it wasn't a new thing, just a lot of new 'test subjects'. Joining NATO was one perk wasn't it, surely they got something besides the missiles, money for the ones in power, what else?

 

[Spade]

Besides that, and they probably had them already anyway so it wasn't a new thing, just a lot of new 'test subjects'. Joining NATO was one perk wasn't it, surely they got something besides the missiles, money for the ones in power, what else?

From the New Warsaw Express
Quote:
"Obama promises nothing

Ed Wight (November 14, 2008)
Relations between Warsaw and Washington’s president-elect have got off to a shaky start this week, following a double political whammy from President Lech Kaczynski and PiS backbencher Artur Gorski.

On Saturday, a statement appeared on the president’s website saying that in a telephone conversation on Friday evening between him and Barack Obama, the president-elect had “Expressed hope in the continuation of political and military cooperation between our countries. He also said that the missile defence project would continue.”

Obama’s foreign policy adviser, Denis McDonough, promptly denied this, saying that no pledge had been made. He said that there had been “a good conversation” with Kaczynski about the American-Polish alliance and missile defence, but “Obama made no commitment on it.”"

 

[Spade]

Whoops, I found it, MHz - Soccer championships
From the Polish papers
Quote:
"Poland and US to move ahead with missile project
26th February 2009

Radosław Sikorski has met US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to discuss the progress of the missile shield project

Polish Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski has announced that the US will stick with plans to place twenty long-range Patriot missiles on Polish soil, after meeting US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in Washington DC today.

The plans were part of an agreement which was originally signed between the Polish government and former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice last year. Doubts as to whether the deal would be carried out arose after US President Barack Obama stated that he would carefully look into the deal.

Sikorski assured that the missile deployment would move forward as planned, first as a temporary measure and later on a permanent basis.

Poland hopes that the missile shield will be in operation in 2012, the same year that the country plans to adopt the common European currency and co-host the European soccer championship. (RG)"

 

[MHz]

Every political leader (pick almost any country) is a known proven liar by the time they are out of office (based on campaign promises compared to what is actually delivered) yet with each new 'set' people migrate back to believing every single word as being nothing less that Gospel in it's sincerity and truth. Not once or twice does this happen but with astounding regularity. Even the ones most critical of Gov (like alternate news web-sites)do that same song and dance. Out with the corrupt old and in with a new and vibrant and honest administration, finally. Within a single month the tone is set for the rest of their term. Sorry, can't proceed with that plan (either at all or in some modified form that is totally unlike the original). Is it something in the water or is everybody brain-dead?

 

[MHz]

Whoops, I found it, MHz - Soccer championships
From the Polish papers
Quote:
"Poland and US to move ahead with missile project
26th February 2009

Radosław Sikorski has met US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to discuss the progress of the missile shield project

Polish Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski has announced that the US will stick with plans to place twenty long-range Patriot missiles on Polish soil, after meeting US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in Washington DC today.

The plans were part of an agreement which was originally signed between the Polish government and former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice last year. Doubts as to whether the deal would be carried out arose after US President Barack Obama stated that he would carefully look into the deal.

Sikorski assured that the missile deployment would move forward as planned, first as a temporary measure and later on a permanent basis.

Poland hopes that the missile shield will be in operation in 2012, the same year that the country plans to adopt the common European currency and co-host the European soccer championship. (RG)"

Finally something in place to combat those soccer hooligans all for only $8,987,253,173.97. Sure saves on the $23,864.19 in damages at most major meets. What's WWIII compared to that bit of benefit?

 

[ironsides]

" What did Poland get for allowing those missiles in?"

Very good question, think about it what didn't Poland get the last time it trusted the west to protect them.

 

[petros]

" What did Poland get for allowing those missiles in?"

Very good question, think about it what didn't Poland get the last time it trusted the west to protect them.

A NATO base and the land usage fees and jobs that go along with it.

 

[Tyr]

Still not a clue what you are talking about...........Monroe Doctrine considers only the western hemisphere, and involves only the influence in that area of other major powers.....much like the British have traditionally refused to allow iany other major power to control the low lands......."Manifest Destiny" is a 19th century doctrine that has been dead for 100 years......and dealt solely with the continent of North America.

So deal with my point about the contrast of behaviours between the USA and USSR.....and quit tossing out straw men about which you know nothing.......

sure Colp. I tend to have forgotten more than you'll ever know. but that's beside the point

Going head-to-head with someone with an "undergraduate" degree in history is somewhat daunting, so I'll have to withdraw for the time being

But I will leave you with this to ponder

The origin of the "American Empire" in concept is possibly traced back to 1898, in the aftermath of the Spanish American War Others date its formation to 12 July 1947 with the signing of the National Security Act of 1947 by President Harry S Truman. Truman then organized the Rio Pact on 2 September 1947, NATOon 4 April 1949, and ANZUS on 1 September 1951, thus uniting many non-communist nations into a single Western Alliance to implement the policy of containment in order to prevent the expansion of the Soviet Union, both in territory and influence.[ A primary goal of President Dwight D. Eisenhower and his Secretary of State, John Foster Dulles, was to create a Pax Americana in the American sphere of influence. In his final speech in 1960 before leaving office, Eisenhower did warn against allowing the military-industrial complex to gain too much power.
In the aftermath of the Cold War, critics of American foreign policy have argued that the United States seeks, or indeed actually has, global hegemony. On September 11, 1990, the President of the United States, George H.W. Bush gave his famous speech, Toward a New World Order to a joint session of the United States Congress. On September 20, 2002, the George W. Bush White House posted on its website the full text of the (at that time) newest National Security Strategy of the United States, composed primarily by prominent neo-conservative Paul Wolfowitz. In this document, the Bush Doctrine of pre-emptive war was outlined.The Bush Doctrine was first put into use on March 20, 2003 when the Bush Administration launched the United States into war with Iraq (see Iraq War).