Would you bomb a school?

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
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I've heard far too many 'alike' stories in other wars. So, I'm not going to believe it.
I don't think Israel would intentionally bomb a school, in fact I know they wouldn't
if they thought it was full of kids.
My assumption is that, hamas deliberately fired the rockets from out side the school, then took off, knowing that israel will return the fire, and they probably
didn't even tell the kids inside, so, they are intentionally putting their own kids
in harms way, and actually know their own kids will be killed.
Israel is going to return the fire, any enemy would return the fire, I would return
the fire. People who hide behind, or shield themselves behind their own people are
responsible for their deaths and injuries.
They shouldn't be firing rockets or anything in the area of their civilians, it's only
done to bring in the cameras, and get it on the news, to bring criticizm to
israel.
They don't give a rats ass about their own people.
Most countries would do their utmost to shelter and protect their own citizens,
not hamas.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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I've heard far too many 'alike' stories in other wars. So, I'm not going to believe it.
I don't think Israel would intentionally bomb a school, in fact I know they wouldn't
if they thought it was full of kids.
My assumption is that, hamas deliberately fired the rockets from out side the school, then took off, knowing that israel will return the fire, and they probably
didn't even tell the kids inside, so, they are intentionally putting their own kids
in harms way, and actually know their own kids will be killed.
Israel is going to return the fire, any enemy would return the fire, I would return
the fire. People who hide behind, or shield themselves behind their own people are
responsible for their deaths and injuries.
They shouldn't be firing rockets or anything in the area of their civilians, it's only
done to bring in the cameras, and get it on the news, to bring criticizm to
israel.
They don't give a rats ass about their own people.
Most countries would do their utmost to shelter and protect their own citizens,
not hamas.

The facts are:

Israel admitted they bombed a school full of children deliberately because they they were fired upon by militants in the school

Israel then tried to use old video footage to justify their claims and were caught in a lie.

Now they claim it was a mistake and they never had any evidence that militants were in the school.

No I don't believe Israel's PM gave an order to bomb the school. But front line troops are human and some of them probably have a major hate on for Palestinians. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that out of frustration/anger/revenge... a front line Israeli soldier took it upon themselves to liquidate a school full of children and then their senior officers tried to cover it up?

Before you answer that question, I suggest you check out what else the IDF has been up to lately:
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/international-politics/80939-icrc-idf-starving-children-ai.html
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
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No I don't believe Israel's PM gave an order to bomb the school. But front line troops are human and some of them probably have a major hate on for Palestinians. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that out of frustration/anger/revenge... a front line Israeli soldier took it upon themselves to liquidate a school full of children and then their senior officers tried to cover it up?

That's very possible. Funny thing about calling people sons of apes and pigs and firing rockets at them for the better part of a decade. Yeah, eventually they may "get a hate on". :-?

If what you describe isn't what happened, it probably will soon.
 

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
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That's very possible. Funny thing about calling people sons of apes and pigs and firing rockets at them for the better part of a decade. Yeah, eventually they may "get a hate on". :-?

If what you describe isn't what happened, it probably will soon.

So what would you do if someone took your land, bulldozed your 1000 year old orchard and moved you onto a tiny plot of land? Throw flowers at their feet?
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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Another source reporting Israel has admitted there were no militants in the compound:


Any more Israeli apologists want to post additional messages in support of killing innocent children?


Actually Israel hasn't said any such thing, did you read what you posted?

The UN, the victims, are claiming something, it hasn't been verified by Israel as of yet.

Im not saying it won't, but you need to learn to understand reading comprehension before spouting as truth.

When the alleged victim in a potential crime gives a version of events, that isn't given the basis of truth until proven in court of law.

Further more, the compound was used as a military installation in the past, quite recently, while still under UN control.

How do you explain that one? That automatically makes it a military target and the UN has violated international law and become a combatant in this conflict.
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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So what would you do if someone took your land, bulldozed your 1000 year old orchard and moved you onto a tiny plot of land? Throw flowers at their feet?

Funny, I went down to Tyendinaga all the time and the people were friendly. I didn't worry about rockets falling on my head.
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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Now they claim it was a mistake and they never had any evidence that militants were in the school.

No, now the UN, the victims, are claiming it was a mistake. Israel has not said anything, though they may soon.

But your pretty dumb if you think Israel wants to blow up a school, if killing civilians was their goal, they would all be dead by now. All of them.

Even if Israel is the "Evil Israel" you envision their plan would be to crush any hopes of palestinian statehood while minimizing civilian casualties to keep the press at bay. This strategy of Target a school doesn't help them even if they are villains.
 

einmensch

Electoral Member
Mar 1, 2008
937
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No not Jews, Germans, Palestinians --all two legged animals that behave abominably

Hospitals, schools, government building,transportation,utilities,residential are all targets to demoralize and completely destroy Gaza functioning. IDF officer emptied his gun into a 13 year old wounded Palestinian girl, officer orders a soldier to shoot a bound blinded folded Palestinian-they got medals-??
 

einmensch

Electoral Member
Mar 1, 2008
937
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CDN Bear -Asshologist is approptiate for you. I'm glad that you know yourself.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
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Toronto
No not Jews, Germans, Palestinians --all two legged animals that behave abominably

Hospitals, schools, government building,transportation,utilities,residential are all targets to demoralize and completely destroy Gaza functioning. IDF officer emptied his gun into a 13 year old wounded Palestinian girl, officer orders a soldier to shoot a bound blinded folded Palestinian-they got medals-??
'

You said they are lower then animals.
 
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einmensch

Electoral Member
Mar 1, 2008
937
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18
---Quote (Originally by einmensch)---
No not Jews, Germans, Palestinians --all two legged animals that behave abominably

Hospitals, schools, government building,transportation,utilities,residential are all targets to demoralize and completely destroy Gaza functioning. IDF officer emptied his gun into a 13 year old wounded Palestinian girl, officer orders a soldier to shoot a bound blinded folded Palestinian-they got medals-??
---End Quote---
'

You said they are your mortal enemies....
The above is what I received in my e-mail--where did the mortal enemies come from? You made it up?
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
63
Toronto
---Quote (Originally by einmensch)---
No not Jews, Germans, Palestinians --all two legged animals that behave abominably

Hospitals, schools, government building,transportation,utilities,residential are all targets to demoralize and completely destroy Gaza functioning. IDF officer emptied his gun into a 13 year old wounded Palestinian girl, officer orders a soldier to shoot a bound blinded folded Palestinian-they got medals-??
---End Quote---
'

You said they are your mortal enemies....
The above is what I received in my e-mail--where did the mortal enemies come from? You made it up?

I misquoted you and fixed it. Do you have a reading problem?
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain:

YouTube - Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

1) Define the terms of debate, and you win the debate.

Early on, the Israelis work to define the context, the starting point, and the story line that will shape understanding of the war. In this instance, for example, they succeeded by constant repetition, in establishing the notion that the starting point of the conflict was December 19th, the end of the six-month ceasefire (which Israel described as "unilaterally ended by Hamas"). In doing so, they ignored, of course, their own early November violations, and their failure to honor their commitment in the ceasefire to open Gaza's borders. They also ignored their having reduced Gaza into a dependency, a process which began long before and continued after their withdrawal in 2005. Because they know that most Americans do not closely follow the conflict and are inclined to believe, as the line goes, "what they hear over and over again," this tactic of preemptive definition and repetition succeeds.

2) Recognize that stereotypes work.

Because, for generations, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been defined with positive cultural images of Israel and negative stereotypes of Palestinians, Israel's propagandists have an advantage here that is easy to exploit. Because the story has long been seen as "Israeli humanity confronting the Palestinian problem," media coverage of any conflict begins with how "the problem" is affecting the Israeli people. As Golda Meir once put it, "We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children, but we can never forgive them for making us kill their children." And so, it was not surprising that, despite the disproportionate suffering of the Palestinians, media coverage attempted to "balance" the story, giving an extensive treatment, with photos, of anguished and fearful Israelis and the impact the war was having on them. Early on, when media treatment mattered most, Palestinians were reduced, as always, to mere numbers or objectified as "collateral damage."

3) Anticipate and count on your opponent's blunders.

Hamas' stupidity played into Israel's strategy. From the outset, Israel could count on the fact that Hamas would launch rockets and issue the kind of threats that Israel could then parley into sympathy in the West. Knowing that these would most certainly come, and could be exploited, was an advantage in their propaganda war.

4) Be everywhere, and say the same thing -- and make sure your opponents remain as invisible as possible.

Israel begins each war with a host of English-speaking spokespersons (many born in the West) available at any time for every media outlet (it's no accident, for example, that Israel has an "Arab" Consul General in Atlanta - that's where CNN is). The work of their propaganda operation, which spreads multiple spokespersons in venues across the United States with consistent talking points, guarantees success. At the same time, they are able to deny media access to Gaza, only allowing the Western reporters to operate near the war zone under IDF supervision, guaranteeing Israel the opportunity to shape every aspect of the story while removing the possibility of independent verification of the horror unfolding in Gaza.

5) Give no ground.

Since half of the story will be determined by what political leaders say and do, the political apparatus in Washington is also pressed into service, ensuring that White House and Congressional leadership will "toe the line." Statements issued by Congress, therefore, reflect the talking points and, together, the Israeli spokespersons, the political commentators, and the Congressional statements serve as echoes of one another

6) Deny, deny, deny.

When events and reality break through, contradicting the Israeli-established narrative, creating stories that run counter to the imposed story line, the propaganda machine works overtime to deny, deny, deny (saying quite boldly, "Who do you believe, me or your lying eyes?"), and/or concoct a counter-narrative that shifts the blame ("We didn't do it, they made us"). In this instance, that means asserting that the death of Palestinian civilians is always the fault of someone else, or that reporters or their opponents are staging the photos of grief (as if to say, "Arabs don't really grieve like we do").

7) The last refuge....

When all else fails, point to a few examples of outrageous anti-Semitism, generalize them, suggesting that that is what motivates critics. It stings, and may be over-used, but it can silence or put critics on the defensive.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-zogby/how-israels-propaganda-ma_b_156767.html
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Why do they hate us?

Robert Fisk: Why do they hate the West so much, we will ask
</EM>
Wednesday, 7 January 2009

AP

A child injured in the Israeli bombardment of a UN school yesterday is taken to Shifa hospital in Gaza City
  • More pictures
So once again, Israel has opened the gates of hell to the Palestinians. Forty civilian refugees dead in a United Nations school, three more in another. Not bad for a night's work in Gaza by the army that believes in "purity of arms". But why should we be surprised?

Have we forgotten the 17,500 dead – almost all civilians, most of them children and women – in Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon; the 1,700 Palestinian civilian dead in the Sabra-Chatila massacre; the 1996 Qana massacre of 106 Lebanese civilian refugees, more than half of them children, at a UN base; the massacre of the Marwahin refugees who were ordered from their homes by the Israelis in 2006 then slaughtered by an Israeli helicopter crew; the 1,000 dead of that same 2006 bombardment and Lebanese invasion, almost all of them civilians?

What is amazing is that so many Western leaders, so many presidents and prime ministers and, I fear, so many editors and journalists, bought the old lie; that Israelis take such great care to avoid civilian casualties. "Israel makes every possible effort to avoid civilian casualties," yet another Israeli ambassador said only hours before the Gaza massacre. And every president and prime minister who repeated this mendacity as an excuse to avoid a ceasefire has the blood of last night's butchery on their hands. Had George Bush had the courage to demand an immediate ceasefire 48 hours earlier, those 40 civilians, the old and the women and children, would be alive.

What happened was not just shameful. It was a disgrace. Would war crime be too strong a description? For that is what we would call this atrocity if it had been committed by Hamas. So a war crime, I'm afraid, it was. After covering so many mass murders by the armies of the Middle East – by Syrian troops, by Iraqi troops, by Iranian troops, by Israeli troops – I suppose cynicism should be my reaction. But Israel claims it is fighting our war against "international terror". The Israelis claim they are fighting in Gaza for us, for our Western ideals, for our security, for our safety, by our standards. And so we are also complicit in the savagery now being visited upon Gaza.

I've reported the excuses the Israeli army has served up in the past for these outrages. Since they may well be reheated in the coming hours, here are some of them: that the Palestinians killed their own refugees, that the Palestinians dug up bodies from cemeteries and planted them in the ruins, that ultimately the Palestinians are to blame because they supported an armed faction, or because armed Palestinians deliberately used the innocent refugees as cover.

The Sabra and Chatila massacre was committed by Israel's right-wing Lebanese Phalangist allies while Israeli troops, as Israel's own commission of inquiry revealed, watched for 48 hours and did nothing. When Israel was blamed, Menachem Begin's government accused the world of a blood libel. After Israeli artillery had fired shells into the UN base at Qana in 1996, the Israelis claimed that Hizbollah gunmen were also sheltering in the base. It was a lie. The more than 1,000 dead of 2006 – a war started when Hizbollah captured two Israeli soldiers on the border – were simply dismissed as the responsibility of the Hizbollah. Israel claimed the bodies of children killed in a second Qana massacre may have been taken from a graveyard. It was another lie. The Marwahin massacre was never excused. The people of the village were ordered to flee, obeyed Israeli orders and were then attacked by an Israeli gunship. The refugees took their children and stood them around the truck in which they were travelling so that Israeli pilots would see they were innocents. Then the Israeli helicopter mowed them down at close range. Only two survived, by playing dead. Israel didn't even apologise.

Twelve years earlier, another Israeli helicopter attacked an ambulance carrying civilians from a neighbouring village – again after they were ordered to leave by Israel – and killed three children and two women. The Israelis claimed that a Hizbollah fighter was in the ambulance. It was untrue. I covered all these atrocities, I investigated them all, talked to the survivors. So did a number of my colleagues. Our fate, of course, was that most slanderous of libels: we were accused of being anti-Semitic.

And I write the following without the slightest doubt: we'll hear all these scandalous fabrications again. We'll have the Hamas-to-blame lie – heaven knows, there is enough to blame them for without adding this crime – and we may well have the bodies-from-the-cemetery lie and we'll almost certainly have the Hamas-was-in-the-UN-school lie and we will very definitely have the anti-Semitism lie. And our leaders will huff and puff and remind the world that Hamas originally broke the ceasefire. It didn't. Israel broke it, first on 4 November when its bombardment killed six Palestinians in Gaza and again on 17 November when another bombardment killed four more Palestinians.

Yes, Israelis deserve security. Twenty Israelis dead in 10 years around Gaza is a grim figure indeed. But 600 Palestinians dead in just over a week, thousands over the years since 1948 – when the Israeli massacre at Deir Yassin helped to kick-start the flight of Palestinians from that part of Palestine that was to become Israel – is on a quite different scale. This recalls not a normal Middle East bloodletting but an atrocity on the level of the Balkan wars of the 1990s. And of course, when an Arab bestirs himself with unrestrained fury and takes out his incendiary, blind anger on the West, we will say it has nothing to do with us. Why do they hate us, we will ask? But let us not say we do not know the answer.

Robert Fisk: Why do they hate the West so much, we will ask - Robert Fisk, Commentators - The Independent
 
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earth_as_one

Time Out
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No, now the UN, the victims, are claiming it was a mistake. Israel has not said anything, though they may soon...
Israeli News Haaretz says this:

UNRWA: Army admitted bombed school did not harbor militants

By Barak Ravid and Akiva Eldar

The United Nations is claiming Israeli military officers have admitted the tank firing on the UNRWA school in Gaza, in which dozens of Palestinians were killed, was an error.

In addition, UNRWA yesterday announced it will cease activities in the Strip due to the death of an UNRWA staffer in an IDF shelling during yesterday morning's humanitarian hiatus.

UNRWA spokesman Chris Gunness told Haaretz yesterday that the army had conceded wrongdoing. "In briefings senior [Israel Defense Forces] officers conducted for foreign diplomats, they admitted the shelling to which IDF forces in Jabalya were responding did not originate from the school," Gunness said. "The IDF admitted in that briefing that the attack on the UN site was unintentional."

He noted that all the footage released by the IDF of militants firing from inside the school was from 2007 and not from the incident itself. "There are no up-to-date photos," Gunness said. "In 2007, we abandoned the site and only then did the militants take it over."

UNRWA is now demanding an objective investigation into whether the school shelling constituted a violation of international humanitarian law.

The UN reported yesterday that a Palestinian working for UNRWA was killed by an IDF tank shell while driving a well-marked aid truck at the Erez border crossing and the incident took place during the humanitarian hiatus in fighting slated to allow Gaza residents to acquire supplies.

UNRWA: Army admitted bombed school did not harbor militants - Haaretz - Israel News
 
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darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
"Would you bomb a school?"

Yep...Then I'ld bomb it again or look for another one to lob some hot rounds on. But then again, I'm not naive enough to believe everything the Hamas media machine spins out.

How you doing CB, we missed you, honest, well I did. Nice to know you're still sucking air.;-)
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Do you have any idea how hypocritical your being? You call down the term "natural ememies" (people who purposely target innocent civilians, and use their own innocent people as shields, like Hamas) and then you use the term yourself, stating the only real "natural enemy" are the jews.

You're being transparent gunboy. You don't have to be a Jew to be a Zionist ask Joe Biden, in fact most Jews run like hell from rascist Zionist pigs. In fact most humans instinctively run from evil pricks with F16s. I'v seen hundreds of pictures of IDF criminals useing young Palestinians as shields but not one of Palestinians doing the same. Zionists are my natural enemy, capitalists are my natural enemy and bankers are my natural enemy that's only natural, they're all scum, inhuman monsters that murder everybodys children whenever they feel like it, it's how they get to feel good about themselves. I do have room left on the list for a light thin one like you though.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
"Would you bomb a school?"

Yep...Then I'ld bomb it again or look for another one to lob some hot rounds on. But then again, I'm not naive enough to believe everything the Hamas media machine spins out.

But you are obviously naive enough to believe that Hamas has a media machine , I suppose they could still have a hand operated one maybe. But you are definately naive and thick like de brick.