Why did things change?

[Machjo]

Remember the Crusades? Civilization has undergone cycles since the beginning of time. The Jewish civilization followed by its degradation. The Pax Romana followed by the dark ages. The Golden Age of Islam followed by its fall. Civilizations are born, mature, grow old, and give birth to a new civilization and then die, with the new civilization repeating the cycle. As to where we stand at this point I'm not sure. I get the impression that the old civilization of nationalism is growing old and about to die while the new-born League fo Nations, UN, etc. is growing into a new civilization. Giving birth to a new world order, as in any delivery of a newborn babe, is painful. Throughout history, as the old civilization gave birth to a new, it went through travails. All transition points throughout history are painful.

 

[mit]

I think it's more important that parents care, and are involved with their kids. There are plenty of stay at home parents who don't pay any attention to their kids, and don't care what they do.There are plenty of working parents who do care, and are involved, and their kids are fine.It's not that mothers work now, it's that people are selfish and don't bother to take the time to raise their kids. 'It's all about me, and my needs. I'm a baby boomer, and I'll do whatever I want to. To hell with everyone else.' That's what the problem is, not working mothers. Even back in the good old days, it was only middle class mothers who stayed at home, leading the ideal existence of the black and white tv, suburban image. Upper class kids were raised by nannies. Lower class women had to work, usually at menial labour.

TenPenny - Sadly I must agree with your statement - My point is that there are economic decisions that fall in to play in regards to child rearing. Our governments feel that to meet the needs of our children we need government regulated and funded childcare - geared to income and subsidized housing and a whole hammock full of inefficient initiatives to keep the low income earners at a level that keep them quiet and underemployed.
What we need is income geared to life - fewer taxes - fewer services - more responsibilities placed on people and parents. Providing a tax break for piano lessons and hockey does not make a child a productive citizen! It has created a shrinking middle class and a growing number of hands reaching for a hand out - This is not how you build a country - this is how you keep it's citizens in line.
We are a poorer nation for it.

 

[Unforgiven]

Change is constant.

I suppose the view from the fifties to now will show many many things but perhaps the most significant aspect would be the population boom.

Take a small town and you might find a pedophile lurking in their midst. Take a thousand small towns and pile them into one urban centre and you have a thousand pedophiles in one place. Where did all the creeps come from?

Upon that dump the concept of suburbia. That small town butted up against the urban centre so that the new commuter can feel that small town feeling again. Now add a thousand suburbs around the urban centre and at this point call it sprawl. For the urban centre has encompassed the suburbs that surround it and you have a mega city.

Imagine all those creeps in one place. Well it's no wonder children aren't safe anymore, hell no one is. Now let's add to the mix, the ability to have all the news within moments of it happening any where any time. Find news boring, how about what bleeds leads? You don't find death and murder boring do you? Murder and death? Death and murder?

While in the small town there may be a death or two a year. A murder might come along rarely. Simply multiply that by thousands and you have a nice regular daily occurrence.

Maybe we ought to learn some manners or spread out a little until we do.

 

[mit]

In the old days pedophiles were more likely to be given a thorough beating and kicked out of town rather than a warm place in jail and a court system full of loopholes and early releases.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

In the old days pedophiles were more likely to be given a thorough beating and kicked out of town rather than a warm place in jail and a court system full of loopholes and early releases.

MIT, really? You mean like the thousands of Catholic priest pedophiles, who were beaten up and kicked out of the town?

 

[darkbeaver]

I haven't seen it mentioned in the thread but there is something that is radically different from the good old days and that is communications, the speed of and the quantity. I think most of us had or have fond memories of the times and conditions we were not really fully aware of. The wedge between nature and man is at this time wider then it has ever been, much of what was discussed in the article as learning experiances has been replaced with machine time and we are swamped with choice.

 

[mit]

MIT, really? You mean like the thousands of Catholic priest pedophiles, who were beaten up and kicked out of the town?

THOUSANDS? - I have asked before for statistics on the percentage of Catholic Priests that were pedophiles versus the general population - And yes - I am sure some were given a bruising before they were sent cruising for another town be they a scout leader - hockey coach - protestant minister or Catholic Priest

 

[JLM]

"In many respects, we live in a much better, much more enlightened, more compassionate society that we ever did in 50, 60, or even 70s."- In a FEW, respects, very few, things for the most part have actually gone to the dogs over the years and it's not hard to pinpoint the junctures at which the changes took place- late 40s advent of T.V., 60s credit cards went on the rampage, 1968 the start of the "do you own thing" mentality and Trudeau becoming P.M. a double whammy that year, 1973 (in British Columbia) removal of the strap from the schools, 1976 abolishment of the death penalty, 1985 Lyin' Brians takes the helm.

 

[Said1]

THOUSANDS? - I have asked before for statistics on the percentage of Catholic Priests that were pedophiles versus the general population - And yes - I am sure some were given a bruising before they were sent cruising for another town be they a scout leader - hockey coach - protestant minister or Catholic Priest

If priests had been dealt with appropriately, there would be no need for inquires into how church officials handled this matter. Some were even sent on spiritual sabbaticals in Rome.

 

[mit]

"In many respects, we live in a much better, much more enlightened, more compassionate society that we ever did in 50, 60, or even 70s."- In a FEW, respects, very few, things for the most part have actually gone to the dogs over the years and it's not hard to pinpoint the junctures at which the changes took place- late 40s advent of T.V., 60s credit cards went on the rampage, 1968 the start of the "do you own thing" mentality and Trudeau becoming P.M. a double whammy that year, 1973 (in British Columbia) removal of the strap from the schools, 1976 abolishment of the death penalty, 1985 Lyin' Brians takes the helm.

Watch an episode of "All in the Family" - Every ethnic reference was used by Norman Lear - Archie was loved and pitied - people cheered when he was put in his place by Meathead or Sammy Davis Jr. - I doubt the show could have gotten through the censors today - Then you look at "The Family Guy" - or "The Simpson's" - A much darker humour I think but available as an after school show - Have we matured or not?

 

[JLM]

Watch an episode of "All in the Family" - Every ethnic reference was used by Norman Lear - Archie was loved and pitied - people cheered when he was put in his place by Meathead or Sammy Davis Jr. - I doubt the show could have gotten through the censors today - Then you look at "The Family Guy" - or "The Simpson's" - A much darker humour I think but available as an after school show - Have we matured or not?

Of all the sit-coms over the years that was my favourite - nothing else since, even comes close

 

[mit]

My wife an I visited the Smithsonian Museum in Washington DC and saw Archie and Edith's chairs - It was like visiting the Vietnam War Memorial - There is a presence about those chairs I can not explain.

If anyone has a couple days to kill - The Smithsonian Museum complex is worth the trip - Admission - $CDN taken at par (OK IT'S Free!) Hee Hee!

 

[JLM]

Of all the sit-coms over the years that was my favourite - nothing else since, even comes close

The entire cast in that show was excellent- no one better than Jean Stapleton- she could be just as hilarious as Archie.

 

[TenPenny]

THOUSANDS? - I have asked before for statistics on the percentage of Catholic Priests that were pedophiles versus the general population - And yes - I am sure some were given a bruising before they were sent cruising for another town be they a scout leader - hockey coach - protestant minister or Catholic Priest

I think you need to change your glasses. For the most part, back in the day, kids suffered in silent humiliation, and those in positions of power kept on keeping on.I think very, very few priests, politicians, teachers, etc were held accountable for their crimes, and this should bear heavily on the shoulders of those in charge. I think your vision of times past is heavily influenced by television, not reality.Even today, I know of hockey teams where the coach is foulmouthed and abusive to the kids (verbally, that is), but the authorities don't do anything, because minor hockey is all about politics and connections.

 

[mit]

I think you need to change your glasses. For the most part, back in the day, kids suffered in silent humiliation, and those in positions of power kept on keeping on.I think very, very few priests, politicians, teachers, etc were held accountable for their crimes, and this should bear heavily on the shoulders of those in charge. I think your vision of times past is heavily influenced by television, not reality.Even today, I know of hockey teams where the coach is foulmouthed and abusive to the kids (verbally, that is), but the authorities don't do anything, because minor hockey is all about politics and connections.

TenPenny - The things that happened back in the day still happen today - The few that get caught make good headlines but many are still free - Many kids are taught to be afraid of adults - They see as their parents do a pedophile around every corner - They are taught that human touch is dirty and build a wall around strangers - safe in their virtual world hiding under mother's skirt or Daddy's strict rules they are left defenseless when the chance to be on their own arises. Teaching kids fear not caution does not help little Johnny or Jane grow.
My thing with Sir Joe's statement is that he says there are thousands of priests that are pedophiles - I probably had a half dozen priests in my parish during my youth and none to my knowledge even had a hint of this sexual deviation. Now we did have a nun - Sister Elizebeth that had a backhand that could send you across the room but I had likely a dozen public school teachers with that same trait. It does not mean that all nuns or all teachers are sadistic child beaters!

 

[talloola]

Watch an episode of "All in the Family" - Every ethnic reference was used by Norman Lear - Archie was loved and pitied - people cheered when he was put in his place by Meathead or Sammy Davis Jr. - I doubt the show could have gotten through the censors today - Then you look at "The Family Guy" - or "The Simpson's" - A much darker humour I think but available as an after school show - Have we matured or not?

I watched "all in the family' all the time, my brother in law wouldn't watch it,
though archie was terrible, and wondered why he was allowed to talk that way
on TV
He didn't seem to understand that archie was the 'brunt' of the jokes and he
was the one laughed 'at' not 'with', at least for most of us, except the bigots
I guess, and it would have thrown that ignorance right back in the faces of
people watching, who also talked like him.
I think that show would have helped the racist problem in a small way, at least
they showed how 'small' and 'stupid' people like him actually were, and yes,
funny, because he was so 'shocking', it was funny, and his stupid ways always
came back to 'smack' him in the head.

 

[JLM]

I watched "all in the family' all the time, my brother in law wouldn't watch it,
though archie was terrible, and wondered why he was allowed to talk that way
on TV
He didn't seem to understand that archie was the 'brunt' of the jokes and he
was the one laughed 'at' not 'with', at least for most of us, except the bigots
I guess, and it would have thrown that ignorance right back in the faces of
people watching, who also talked like him.
I think that show would have helped the racist problem in a small way, at least
they showed how 'small' and 'stupid' people like him actually were, and yes,
funny, because he was so 'shocking', it was funny, and his stupid ways always
came back to 'smack' him in the head.

Yep, probably not the most 'politically correct' person, doubt if the gay community appreciated him.

 

[VanIsle]

The root of society's evil is that women work?I didn't realize that it was so simple. Thanks for pointing that out.

It's not what I said but - you're welcome all the same!!!!!:roll:

 

[VanIsle]

Not only that, Tenpenny. Blacks are no longer content to sit at the back of the bus; gays are demanding equal rights, same as everybody else.

Women want to get education, want to compete with men (especially white men) in the workplace. Contraception, abortion are easily available.

Is it any wonder that the world is going to the dogs? The good old days were presumably much better. Women were in the kitchen, everybody knew their proper place, below the white man. Now there was a nice, orderly, happy and contented society. All these new fangled ideas of equality, diversity, minorities having equal rights with the majority, these things have led the world straight to Hell.

At least that is the conservative wisdom.

I don't think women want to compete with men. For the most part - they want to beat them (be the best). I don't know SirJoe but you seemed to have completely missed out on your entire childhood. It was not that the good old days were presumably much better. It was that they were much better and you seemed to have missed that as I have had this conversation with you a few times.

 

[Cliffy]

IslandSpecific,

Up until my forties, when I thought back on my childhood, I thought it sucked. It was depressing to think about it. One day I decided to sit down and try to find something, anything, that was good about it. Well, one thing led to another, like such things tend to do, and guess what? There were a lot of really good times there too!

I was mildly shocked and pleasantly surprised. The exercise changed my life. Our past depends on where we focus your attention and so is our present. Sure, there will be times when things don't go our way or events that seem like really bad luck. But if we look at everything as a lesson to be learned we find that everything has a purpose and no matter how bad they seem, they will all benefit us if we make the effort to learn the lesson. There are no accidents.