Parliament prorogued
- Thread starter Walter
- Start date
Good on you Karrie! I tried to focus people on a real question instead of just
attacking each other also (didn't really work). Hope this one does...
OK....Canada's had its election, and it's political turmoil with the coalition, and the
excitement with the GG, and now the PM's pirogued Parliament until sometime in
January....and still we don't know what the H*LL's going on...or what will happen.
I have a question that no Politician has brought up. I think it's a good one and maybe
one of the many-many bright folks here on Canadian Content Forums can answer for
me. I think this coalition thing will come to pass no matter what Harper proposes in a
budget in January. Then (if that comes to pass) the coalition will do their economic
stimuli (= bailout) package of $23 Billion or $30 Billion or whatever number
Mr. Dion happens to come up with for the manufacturing & auto & forestry sectors.
OK....whatever...it'll be inevitable. $$$ will flow to keep these sectors going and in
theory that's a great thing as long as we have customers to sell these products to.
Something like 80% of our paper & lumber products (and 90% of the Automobiles)
from Canada are produced for export to the USA who're (<--:shock::shock::lol::lol
in a recession,so they are not building houses or buying cars. North American Automotive sales are
down 50% from two years ago, and 90% of the vehicles made in Canada are shipped
out to the USA...
....So....how many auto workers and forestry workers jobs can realistically be saved?
Half? About half? All of them?:?:
If we keep All of them working with bail-out stimulus packages in the Billions, for
products that nobody is buying, where are we going to put all of these cars and paper
and lumber until the fire-sale where they'll be scrapped to make pipe & firewood?:?:
Manufacturing is a very broad (& important) term. If it's manufacturing a marketable item,
bail them out! If it's a product with no buyers, change the product from GMC Trucks to
GMC Solar Panels or something and then bail them out. Does this make sense???:shock::?:
If "Massey Ferguson" went to the Federal Government with hat in hand wanting Billions to
keep thousands employed to make Threshing Machines (when the farmers are all using
Combines now), would you bail them out (?) or tell them to start making Combines or
Toilet Bowls or something that people want and need if they want a bail-out?:shock::?:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually Sir Joseph I feel you are completely wrong in this case.
Some people on this forum( not you) seem to view this issue like a hockey game.
Where you root for your own personal affiliation and then sneer and spit at the other team.
Really it's just politics, pointing out who did what to whom or who did the latest slimiest thing is, in all likelihood a wast of time.
After all they are all politicians
Its ongoing and all the party's do it.
The GG Michell Jean did the wisest thing when she agreed to pirogue.
Why; because acquiescing to Harper's request was traditionally and constitutionally correct.
The 1926 King-Bing-Thing can be dragged out and gnawed on but what GG would want to emulate that fiasco?
The King-Bing-Thing ended up at the polls anyway if memory serves.
Sure there is also that foreign Australian nightmare but who cares.
In Canada the GG historically goes along with the PM, that is the precedence.
The GG does not refuse to pirogue, its not done.
In no way has the GG taken sides, she has simply followed precedence and parliamentary tradition.
Michelle Jean has very good constitutional advisor's working with her(from Trudeau's old team I believe).
I suspect in this case she probably has simply followed their advice.
After all why set a precedence, then you truly have taken sides.
So what can we look forward to now.
I believe not at all what you are suggesting Sir Porter.
I believe the Cons will try and match (at a minimum)the Lib proposed financial advice and all most certainly craft a larger more extensive budget.
Harper will try and meet with the Premiers of each Province and craft a budget that gives each Premier as much as is possible.
He will encourage Premiers to speak up on his behalf, but who knows how that will play.
Some probably will, perhaps in the West.
If he can sway a few mayors that could help.
Each time the leaders of the PQ or the BQ announce in Quebec that the coalition is good for Quebec sovereignty it is another knife slash to the coalition.
Jacques Parizeau is not helping the coalition cause at all.
Proving the Bloq and NDP were planning this for some time in no way advances the
coalition case that this is all about the budget.
And a separatist agenda to boot
That will be later referenced and used by the Con's.
Cracks are already appearing in the Lib team. Behind the scenes questions will be asked, old wounds poked.
Polls show that nobody wants Dion as a Leader, not even the Libs.
These weaknesses will be exploited by the Conservative machine.
Where is Iggy?
He is hiding because he knows the whole thing could melt down any second.
Liberal MP's are publicly stating on camera the coalition cannot hold with Dion at the helm.
Can it hold, who knows.
Obama is in on Jan 20th or so.
Harper will try and meet with him.
Hopefully a Big 3 package will be under way in the states.
Harper will try and hook into that for a Canadian package.
So add all that up and it's the new Con budget.
It will come out as soon as house sits at the end of Jan.
Harper will give a speech about working together and open doors and suchlike.
There will then be a confidence vote.
If the Con's loose, Harper will go to the GG using all the above listed idea's and say that it is impossible for the coalition to have a better fiscal plan.
And the truth is they probably won't have.
Assuming the coalition and the Libs have even managed to stay together.
And it will be very,very hard for the GG not to agree with Harper.
And hating Harper's guts is not a valid reason.
The coalition must prove it can do a better job than the Con's.
If not the GG's hands may be tied.
Just my opinion on how it will go.
Personally I think Harper deserves to get punted.
But unless the coalition gets the reins I don't think it's happening.
Trex
Actually the Coalition doesn't have to agree with Harpers plan nor present a better one.
If they don't get the government they can just shut it out. Harper cannot do a damn thing without the approval of the Coalition.
Thats democracy, Harper lost the election, he did not receive his majority. He can have the title of Prime Minister all he wants,but without the support of Parliment it doesn't actually do anything.
So the coalition already run things by controlling parliment. They could write off a bill stating it is illegal to use the word "conservative" in political ads, slap on the notwithstanding clause (more stupid things in our countries laws)
And there isn't a damn thing Harper could do about it. Why he's clinging to "power" when he doesn't have it baffles me.
If they don't get the government they can just shut it out. Harper cannot do a damn thing without the approval of the Coalition.
Thats democracy, Harper lost the election, he did not receive his majority. He can have the title of Prime Minister all he wants,but without the support of Parliment it doesn't actually do anything.
So the coalition already run things by controlling parliment. They could write off a bill stating it is illegal to use the word "conservative" in political ads, slap on the notwithstanding clause (more stupid things in our countries laws)
And there isn't a damn thing Harper could do about it. Why he's clinging to "power" when he doesn't have it baffles me.
"It was definitely the wrong decision. By proroguing the Parliament, GG has clearly taken sides in the debate,"- I don't see anything wrong with "taking sides" as long as she THOUGHT she was taking the right (correct) side. As I've said before if you REALLY don't know the correct solution, that you start with what's easiest and cheapest For instance it would be stupid to call a $300 million dollar election just to have Harper get back in with 140-150 seats. It would be stupid to change the gov't. and then find the new kids are worse than the old.
Well yes actually they do if they want the GG to appoint them to lead Government.
And that is exactly why Harper is doing what he is doing.
Not that there is any precedence.
Otherwise its back to the hustings.
The opposition can achieve that on any non-confidence issue.
However to bring down the government and replace it they supposedly need a valid reason.
This coalition has chosen the budget and announced it.
Thus Harper is stalling like wild and will try and build a better budget.
If after a non-confidence motion they do not convince the GG that their budget is better and more effective for Canada than the Conservative budget.
It goes to a general election.
Granted that is in theory.
Trex
Proroguing Parliament to prevent a minority government from falling is fascism. It is a desperate manoeuvre to take representation out of government. We do not have a President we have a Prime Minister and he is selected from Parliament - at least that is the way it is supposed to work.
The Question still lingers: Do the Liberals care more about grabbing on to power or making the best of a poor situation and allowing the Conservatives lead during trying times and doing what's best for the country ?
As the radio show host said best today, Harper should never have been given the time to sit for 7 weeks and not face a vote after barely 2 weeks in the house and setting this stage himself.. I can understand the uproar but this is democracy that has been put on hold at a great cost.. All parties in the house are there legally whether you like them or not and now our Parliament is on hold ( a time out ) while these guys decide how to best attack themselves on the air and TV for 7 weeks..
The opposition does not need a valid reason.. It is what the Government want you to believe. In fact Harper brought down Martin with a COALITION of the NDP and BLOC by introducing a motion in the house on Opposition Day.. Every Canadian seems to have a short memory for personal reasons when their party is failing..
Paul Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Let this all end for crying out loud
Harper was consolidating power. He was trying to force through outrageous changes. It would be irresponsible for the opposition not to take down his government.
Then there is Harper's economic plan which any economist can tell you is a complete disaster.
The Liberals weren't making a power grab they were trying to prevent one.
I think you are right, but I sure think there's better use for 300 million smackeroos.
JLM, here is another scenario for you. Let us say Fidel presents his budget and it become clear that he is going to lose the no confidence motion. What is to prevent Fidel from declaring emergency and assuming power indefinitely? He has already said that he will employ every legal means to stay in power. As far as I am aware, declaring emergency is a perfectly legal means.
Does anybody know what are the limitations on PM’s power to declare emergency? Is there any check on that power, or can he declare emergency whenever he wants? If the only check is GG, I assume she will go along with his declaration of emergency.
With prorogation of the Parliament, we are into totally uncharted territory here; I don’t think there is any precedence even in British Parliamentary system of proroguing the Parliament in order to remain in office, in order to dodge a no confidence motion.
[FONT="]If Fidel can prorogue Parliament to stay in office, what is going to prevent him form declaring emergency to remain in office? I personally think that is a realistic possibility[/FONT]
Scratch, that is the problem, isn't it? The most likely result from another election in February is another conservative minority. Then we may have the repeat of the same process again. Then do we have another election in say, April? Do we keep repeating the process; have election after election until Fidel gets a majority? That seems like a very steep price to pay to keep Fidel in office.
Ya know, at first I didn't like Harper myself, but I don't see why so many people currently dislike him. Compared to the other knuckleheads, he's pretty confident yet calm. I kinda know where he's at. That can't be said about the other guys, as their whole demeanor speaks volumes of aggressive, dirty, political power- plays, instead of real substance, IMO.
What exactly is it that Harper failed to do in your eyes?
Last edited:
I actually don't have much against Harper, I like alot of his foreign policy (not all) and nearly voted Conservative. His problem is he's doesn't accept the vote. He feels he's better than the electorate and he can ignore their wishes. He was not elected to rule alone.
If you look back at my old posts I wanted a Conservative Minority because it should have forced im to seek the support of other parties (he used to be friendliest with working alongside the Bloc)
He spat in the face of democracy.
If you look back at my old posts I wanted a Conservative Minority because it should have forced im to seek the support of other parties (he used to be friendliest with working alongside the Bloc)
He spat in the face of democracy.
Yep, you have that right. There's a perfect solution to an up coming election if it materializes. Anybody that is running solely for the purpose of defeating Harper would run as "Coalition" and that way all the voters who are voting for the sole purpose of defeating Harper would vote "Coalition"- then we'll see where the bear sh*t in the buckwheat.
"What is to prevent Fidel from declaring emergency and assuming power indefinitely? He has already said that he will employ every legal means to stay in power."- Sir Rupe- Lots, the people- so far on this present situation (from what I saw on the news tonight) most Canadians are behind Harper... so I think for the next while he has to tread very lightly and come up with a sensible budget, possible even expanding a little on his parameters of what HE thinks is prudent- maybe borrow a few bucks to help out deserving causes. If he starts acting like Idi Amin or Khadafi, he's out of there.
