Turkey in warning to Israel: You have one day to apologize for Gaza flotilla raid

[earth_as_one]

paragraph 170 and 172... but I'd prefer people read the entire report and make up their own minds.

 

[lone wolf]

Regardless of what happened at the blockade, any ship that puts out to sea in a building storm had better expect to meet waves. They knew what they were doing. Perhaps, if part of their manifest included support for a belligerent, the shipper should have considered smuggling - and shutting up about it. When one asks for trouble, one gets it.

 

[Colpy]

I agree that that these people were wrong to resist getting beaten by the Israelis. They should have taken the paint balls, the kicks to the groin, and stomps on the head and so on with out resisting like the people did on the other boats. If they can't do that then they had no business getting on an unarmed ship claiming to be non-violent.

FYI: The circumstances of the killing of at least six of the passengers were in a manner
consistent with an extra-legal, arbitrary and summary execution. Furkan Doğan and İbrahim
Bilgen were shot at near range while the victims were lying injured on the top deck. Cevdet
Kiliçlar, Cengiz Akyüz, Cengiz Songür and Çetin Topçuoğlu were shot on the bridge deck
while not participating in activities that represented a threat to any Israeli soldier. In these
instances and possibly other killings on the Mavi Marmara, Israeli forces carried out extralegal,
arbitrary and summary executions
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/15session/A.HRC.15.21_en.pdf

I doubt Israel will apologize, which gives Turkish politicians no wiggle room. They will have to suspend normal relations with Israel permanently.

What they SHOULD have done is sunk the Mavi Marmara with gunfire when their initial (perfectly legal) attempt to board was violently resisted.

They got themselves in trouble by trying to use non-lethal weapons.

And we are supposed to take the Jew-hating UN HRC seriously????

You might as well take the word of the local Nazi Party official....and you know it.

Shame! Shame!!!

paragraph 170 and 172... but I'd prefer people read the entire report and make up their own minds.

It comes from the United Nations Human Rights Council.

It is NOT to be taken seriously.

Unless you are Heinrich Himmler.

 

[earth_as_one]

Yes Colpy, we all know its impossible to criticize Israel without being a joo-hater...

 

[CDNBear]

paragraph 170 and 172...

The fact that the UNHRC believes that the assault on the flotilla was illegal, as well as the blockade, being in stark contrast to international law, other UN findings and commonsense, aside. Where are the facts? There's an opinion there. But nothing to support it.

but I'd prefer people read the entire report and make up their own minds.

How do you formulate an opinion with someone else's opinion?

Yes Colpy, we all know its impossible to criticize Israel without being a joo-hater...

You don't criticize Israel. You demonize Israel.

Shall I post all the posts in which you do just that?

 

[Goober]

paragraph 170 and 172... but I'd prefer people read the entire report and make up their own minds.

The ship owned by IHH was paid for by the Turkisk Govt - Why - to create tension - Turkey is headed towards an Islamic State - Reporters who disagree with the Govt are locked up Newspapers, well they are sued for so called unpaid taxes - The press is targeted - Why -
And you support this group - Right - they hate Jews.

IHH (Turkish NGO) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A group of Italian lawmakers spearheaded by the People of Freedom party are calling for the Turkish İHH to be added to the European Union’s list of terrorist entities. According to party member Fiamma Nirenstein, "The Islamic fundamentalist nature of İHH has been documented by numerous declarations praising martyrdom and Israel’s destruction". According to the parliamentary initiative, İHH is tied to Hamas and to the Union of Good, an organization designated by the US Treasury has as a financial supporter of terrorism.[72]

The Coordinating Council of German Nongovernmental Organizations against Anti-Semitism also called on the German government to place İHH on the EU list of terrorist organizations, because “like Hamas the İHH is an anti-Semitic organization that promotes terrorism.[72]

As of May 2011 there is a legislative effort taking place in the Dutch parliament to place the IHH on the European Union’s list of terrorist organizations. The effort has been compared to the 2009 resolution by the Dutch Parliament urging the EU to designate Iran’s revolutionary guard corps as a terrorist entity. In April 2011, the Dutch parliament ratified a motion condemning the IHH Gaza flotilla as an action aimed against a friendly nation. The motion also stated there are sufficient legal avenues to provide the Gaza population with humanitarian aid and that a second flotilla could be construed as aiding terrorist organizations.[73]

 

[CDNBear]

Does it actually matter that Gaza doesn't even have a deep sea port?

 

[Colpy]

Yes Colpy, we all know its impossible to criticize Israel without being a joo-hater...

It is perfectly legitimate to criticize Israel.....and you don't have to be a Jew-hater.....

Although it seems to help.

Certainly the UNHRC is a Jew-hater

But since 2006, the review of human rights abuses by Israel was made a permanent feature of every council session. No other country is subject to a permanent review. In 2010, Canadian politician Irwin Cotler wrote:

...in an appalling breach of its own principles and procedures, the UN Human Rights Council has institutionalised a permanent agenda item indicting one member state -- agenda item No 7, which speaks of "Israeli human rights violations in the occupied Palestinian territories" -- while agenda item No 8 speaks of "human rights violations in the rest of the world". Here is an Alice in Wonderland situation where the conviction is secured before the hearing begins.[107]
​

Israel, Palestine, and the United Nations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No it's illegal, pretty much everything they do is illegal.

As well the paint guns were completely proven wrong as well. Israel thinks we're all stupid, think it's easy to lie and get away with it.
It's easy to see why they think that when looking at people such as yourself, lapping up everything they say as absolute truth without question.
Fortunately not everyone is as dimwitted as you.

Troll.....

either you are a complete drooling moron, or you don't even INTEND to be taken seriously.......

Or both.

"As well the paint guns were completely proven wrong as well'

One can not even decipher what this MEANS........which might explain the lack of any supportive evidence.

Speak English?????.

 

[earth_as_one]

You don't criticize Israel. You demonize Israel.

Shall I post all the posts in which you do just that?

Please do. I'd rather people judge me by my posts than by unsubstantiated claims by Israeli apologists like yourself.

MY own words in context please...

 

[AbtFet]

Hey!!!!!

wanna compare CVs?????


I got past Milk and Cookies, and even Dick and Jane readers.....you?????



Neither were you, dumbass.....but Turkish journalist Şefik Dinç was......and he solidly backs up the Israeli story....

Bloodstained Mavi Marmara by

Israel has been absolutely vindicated...

You are absolutely wrong...

Nope, similar to Goober you're factually and morally wrong. There were no Islamic extremists on the boat, there were many women and children.
Şefik Dinç? Who is this tool? Some idiot probably paid by Israel to corroborate their story, and published a book of to spread propaganda and profit further.
What Israel did was use excessive force. If Israel had nothing to hide they wouldn't have rejected an independent international
inquiry. They also confiscated cameras, memory cards and other communication equipment from passengers.
If you're innocent you got nothing to hide, clearly they had something to hide.

 

[CDNBear]

Oh I missed this gem of stupidity...

No it's illegal.

Why do you keep saying that, when the facts completely prove you wrong?

As well the paint guns were completely proven wrong as well.

Yes, I know. They should have left the paint guns at home and used H&K's alone.

Israel thinks we're all stupid...

Do you have a mouse in your pocket, or are you talking about your invisible friends, when you say 'we'.

It's easy to see why they think that when looking at people such as yourself, lapping up everything they say as absolute truth without question.

Would you like to see some of my posts that prove that to be another of your fallacious claims?

Fortunately not everyone is as dimwitted as you.

I think it's unfortunate. Because sadly, far to many are dimwitted like you.

 

[AbtFet]

It is perfectly legitimate to criticize Israel.....and you don't have to be a Jew-hater.....

Although it seems to help.

Certainly the UNHRC is a Jew-hater

Israel, Palestine, and the United Nations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



It is perfectly legitimate to criticize Israel.....and you don't have to be a Jew-hater.....

Although it seems to help.

Certainly the UNHRC is a Jew-hater

Israel, Palestine, and the United Nations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Troll.....

either you are a complete drooling moron, or you don't even INTEND to be taken seriously.......

Or both.

"As well the paint guns were completely proven wrong as well'

One can not even decipher what this MEANS........which might explain the lack of any supportive evidence.

Speak English?????.

Do you have any self-awareness at all? :lol:

 

[Colpy]

Nope, similar to Goober you're factually and morally wrong. There were no Islamic extremists on the boat, there were many women and children.
Şefik Dinç? Who is this tool? Some idiot probably paid by Israel to corroborate their story, and published a book of to spread propaganda and profit further.
What Israel did was use excessive force. If Israel had nothing to hide they wouldn't have rejected an independent international
inquiry. They also confiscated cameras, memory cards and other communication equipment from passengers.
If you're innocent you got nothing to hide, clearly they had something to hide.

No.

What they did was not use enough force and left themselves open to attack...

you think the Israeli soldiers stabbed themselves???

Look up Şefik Dinç yourself, Moron, I'm tired of doing your legwork for you.

You DO know how to research don't you???

You know, such an educated person as yourself........

Didn't think so.

 

[AbtFet]

Israeli soldiers got their asses handed to them when they tried to **** with the passengers, useless drones think they can do whatever they want and got a rude awakening.
The people on the boat did nothing but defend themselves from the typical Israeli aggression we're all too used to by now.

 

[DaSleeper]

Do you have any self-awareness at all? :lol:

You are definite proof that man evolved from the apes........

Evolution incomplete I think:smile:

 

[Goober]

Israeli soldiers got their asses handed to them when they tried to **** with the passengers, useless drones think they can do whatever they want and got a rude awakening.
The people on the boat did nothing but defend themselves from the typical Israeli aggression we're all too used to by now.

Your brain reminds me of a Pine Cone on the ground - Only after a massive fire does the cone germinate - So the analogy is there may be hope for you and finding the truth.

 

[Colpy]

Israeli soldiers got their asses handed to them when they tried to **** with the passengers, useless drones think they can do whatever they want and got a rude awakening.
The people on the boat did nothing but defend themselves from the typical Israeli aggression we're all too used to by now.

Make up your mind, Oh Stupid One......were the Israelis attacked?

Or were they not attacked???

because they were involved in a PERFECTLY LEGAL boarding.....the passengers were no more entitled to attack them with weapons than you would be to attack a traffic cop that stopped you on the street.

Probably with the same result.....except the traffic cop wouldn't wait to be stabbed before he blew your arse away.

?

 

[damngrumpy]

God I hope we never get personal, when discussing a subject any subject. Then it comes to mind
some people mix personal with their own version of the facts, and all goes to hell in a hand basket.
Israel is going to defend itself both as a state and as a people. Some just do not like the fact that
Israel exists and that is their first problem. I am sure that if some other group of nations or activists
planned and set out to bring humanitarian aid and weapons, or weapons into our territories namely
the far north for the purpose of circumventing our laws we would be rather upset humanitarian aid
or not. I say enough if such a venture were tried again Israel should do the worst, sink the bloody
boat with all on board. If someone thinks for a moment that sanctions would come down on Israel
think again. It is too volatile a region to apply sanctions to Israel. At least deal in reality. Turkey
does not want to upset the real investment capital being provided by Israel at the present time
either. Even those who hate Israel, don't you think it is strange that Turkey is dealing financially with
the supposed enemy Israel? After all don't they have a pro Islamic Government these days, all be
it a moderate one? This is all about paying lip service to lip service itself and nothing to do with the
importance of reality. Both countries know there is too much money at stake to let this interfere with
anything else. Please don't get caught up in the entertainment value of the news media, this is
theatre and nothing more.

 

[CDNBear]

Please do. I'd rather people judge me by my posts than by unsubstantiated claims by Israeli apologists like yourself.

If I challenge you to back up your false claim, will you?

MY own words in context please...

I don't even have to leave this thread to start...

And just so you don't cry about being taken out of context, I'll leave the posts whole, and highlight the misleading lies, and propaganda, by your selective use of words...

(cold-blooded) cold: without compunction or human feeling; "in cold blood"; "cold-blooded killing"; "insensate destruction"

Nothing in the definition regarding legality.

Since Israel refuses to apologize, and none of the killers have expressed remorse, cold blooded accurately describes the way these fellow human beings were gunned down.

Gaza flotilla attack: Autopsies reveal intensity of Israeli military force | World news | The Guardian

Its just polite to apologize when you gun down another country's citizens in cold blood, even if you don't really mean it.

I like this one, just for the Jew hatred alone.

And even after I showed you were your claims were fallacious, you still hold the following true.

Back on topic...

This story and people's reactions is a good litmus test to determine who can and can't think independently. If the US arrested three Iranians near a remote section of the US/Mexico border, how many people here would believe their claims that they were just tourists who accidentally crossed into the US while hiking?

The facts in this case as near as I can determine are:

Iranian authorities arrested three Americans in a remote area along the Iraq/Iran border. They claimed to be hikers who wandered across the border from Iraq accidentally. Iran initially charged them with entering Iran illegally and later charged them with espionage after finding some "compelling evidence". Recently two of the three were convicted of all charges after what AI describes as a "grossly unfair" trial. Their lawyer never had a chance to see or challenge the "compelling evidence" which resulted in their conviction for espionage.

Which side of the unmarked border they were on at the time of the arrest is unclear. Most likely they were a few meters on the Iraqi side, when an Iranian border guard motioned or ordered them onto the Iranian side and arrested them. Its possible they were on either side of the border of the time of their arrest.

All three are Jewish and graduates of University of California Berkley. One has some limited experience as a freelance journalist. Their links to humanitarian organizations are extremely superficial. They participated in some anti-war protests and expressed sentiment against the Afghan and Iraq wars. Two of the three were living in Damascus, Syria. They had no obvious permanent employment, but had money to travel and somehow posted a $500,000 bail for the women, who immediately fled the country and will be tried in absentia.

I am only certain they didn't get a fair trial since they never had a chance to see or challenge the "compelling evidence" against them. Based on the facts, I can't determine the full truth here and I doubt any one else can either.

Moving on to speculation... Iraq's back country is dangerous and not a popular destination for American hikers. Although these people fit the profile of new spooks, the circumstances of their capture indicates its unlikely they were on a spy mission at time. I suspect the Iranians have no proof these three are spies, and their conviction is 100% political. They will be used to bargain for the release Iranian spies detained in the US. The US could get these people released, but they'll have to cut a deal with the Iranians.

However, I don't see the US as having the moral high ground when it comes to treatment of accused spies. People the US has alleged committed acts of terrorism or espionage get the same treatment or worse in the US or at any of the various "black ops" around the world. These people also don't have the right to see and therefore challenge the evidence against them, because it could compromise intelligence gathering. In many cases they are held for years without trial and subjected to torture.

Regarding the way the US treats Iranians accused of spying, consider this case of this Iranian:


Tehran Raps Washington for Depriving Jailed Iranian Woman of Rights
Source: Fars News Agency, TEhran

A senior Iranian Foreign Ministry official called on Washington to issue entry visas for the family of Shahrzad Mir-Qolikhan, an innocent Iranian woman held in the US jails for the last three years, to let them have a meeting with her, and lambasted the US authorities for depriving Shahrzad of her Vienna Convention rights.

"Based on the Vienna Convention, Mrs. Mir-Qolikhan is entitled to certain rights (to have consulate access and meetings with her family), but none of them have yet been materialized," Director-General of the Iranian Foreign Ministry for Iranian Expatriates Nasrollah Tajik told FNA on Saturday.

Tajik referred to the proper behavior Iranian authorities have had with the three US nationals who were arrested by Iran in July 2009 after crossing Iran-Iraq borders illegally, the freedom of Sarah Emily Shourd, one of these three American nationals, and their meetings with their families in Iran, and lamented that the US has failed to provide such facilities for Shahrzad Mir-Qolikhan.

The efforts made by the Iranian foreign ministry officials have just led to the transfer of Shahrzad to another prison after her improper and hard conditions in her previous jail, he explained.

Shahrzad's father told FNA last week that his daughter was sent to a prison in the US state of Oklahoma after more than a month of aggravating conditions in her solitary confinement.

"My daughter had been threatened to death in her former prison several times and suffered from respiratory diseases due to the lack of hygiene and good healthcare," Mir-Qolikhan complained at the time.

Shahrzad was detained in the US in December 2007. Her ex-husband, Mahmoud Seif, had allegedly tried to export night-vision goggles to Iran from Austria.

She was sentenced to five years of imprisonment by a Florida federal court in absentia.

Also earlier, Shahrzad's mother unveiled new details about abuse, torture and cruel treatment of her daughter by the US prison guards and jailors, and stressed that her daughter is held against the law since her retrial in the US violated the international and US laws.

Belqeis Rowshan said in an interview with FNA at the time that her daughter was initially sentenced to 52 days of imprisonment by an Austrian court in 2005 and her case was closed after she served her prison term.

"Again and after a short period, a US court sentenced Shahrzad to five years of imprisonment for the same case, while based on the international laws courts are not allowed to issue two (consecutive) rulings for a single case," Rowshan stated.

"That means that the US action on the case was wrong in essence and they know this," she stressed, reminding that her family attorney also confirm her words.

"Therefore, Shahrzad's detention has been an illegal move and it is now three years that my daughter has been in jail for her attempt to buy a single pair of night-vision goggles," Rowshan explained.

Rowshan further noted the US prison guards' mistreatment of Shahrzad, and said whenever her daughter is allowed to contact the family from the jail, she complains about her jailors' physical and mental tortures and mistreatment.

Also in March, Rowshan said that Shahrzad is suffering from respiratory problems due to the bad healthcare and sanitary conditions at the prison, expressing deep concern about the fate of her daughter.

"Shahrzad, who is suffers respiratory problems as a result of the lack of hygiene and sanitation in the jail was transferred to the prison's clinic last night after her conditions deteriorated," Rowshan told FNA at the time.

The prison accommodating Shahrzad was built in 1938 and is in a very undesirable condition, she mentioned, adding that the molds on prison walls and ceiling have caused respiratory problems for her daughter.

Rowshan also complained about the US officials' indifference to her family's repeated demands for a meeting with Shahrzad at the jail, yet she said that her family members have, nevertheless, sent their passports and related documents to the US authorities to receive a visa for travelling to the US, reiterating that the family would spare no effort to help Shahrzad in any possible way.

In September former Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said that Tehran has prepared a list of Iranian nationals who are in US jails for false charges, and added that he is closely pursuing the issue.

Speaking to reporters on the sidelines of the 65th session of the UN General Assembly, Mottaki said that the issue of the Iranian captives would be one of the main topics that he would discuss with the UN chief, Ban Ki-moon, during his visit to the UN headquarters.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad also said in September that the US has recently detained and held eight Iranian nationals illegally and based on false allegations.

President Ahmadinejad said in an interview with the Russian TV that the Iranian captives were arrested in third countries by US agents under "false accusations" and transferred here to US jails.

"This is abduction and does not fit in with any legal system. They (Iranians) had traveled to other countries with official visas but were arrested by Americans," Ahmadinejad stated at the time.

"Americans have not observed the international law. They should review their conduct and allow the detainees to return home."

eao: Although I disagree with the way the US and Iran both treat each other's citizens, I fail to see why Iran should have to meet a higher standard than the US regarding fairness, transparency, treatment or conditions. I expect the US and Iran will cut a deal to release the three American hikers in exchange for the release of Iranian nationals held in US prisons. (which is the most likely reason why these Americans were convicted)

When called on your lies...

If you're so objective and well informed. How come I found and pointed out so many errors in your conclusions?

To which you replied...

Like your delusions of grandeur CB, its all in your mind.

Yep. You're a Jew hater. Pure and simple. Oh you're careful, you don't want to be visited by the HRC, or the local Police. You try and hide it well.

But sadly, just as the strength of your argument is imaginary, so is your facade.

I can get more if you want. I bookmark all your hate filled lies.

 

[AbtFet]

Make up your mind, Oh Stupid One......were the Israelis attacked?

Or were they not attacked???

because they were involved in a PERFECTLY LEGAL boarding.....the passengers were no more entitled to attack them with weapons than you would be to attack a traffic cop that stopped you on the street.

Probably with the same result.....except the traffic cop wouldn't wait to be stabbed before he blew your arse away.

?

The IDF acted aggressively (as usual), the people on the boat defended themselves. This boat had women and children on it, its objective wasn't to take on the Israeli military.

Your brain reminds me of a Pine Cone on the ground - Only after a massive fire does the cone germinate - So the analogy is there may be hope for you and finding the truth.

Did you read that on a poster in your nursing home?