Tesla's electric cars aren't as green as you might think

Twin_Moose

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the little detail you are missing is that we have been paying civil service union hogs to inspect our pipelines and to prevent leaks and spills!



as always with hogs- they did such a fine job they overlooked a pipeline for fifty years- until it leaked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


apparently those hogs got transferred west 20 years ago after the sunrise propane explosion that destroyed a toronto neighbourhood!!!!!!!!!


and we were paying hogs good money- since they never work cheap- to issue warnings to sunrise that what they were doing was dangerous- right up until the explosion!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What your failing to realize is that the Pipeline industry was left to be self regulated until very recently when post incident investigations started pointing to producer failures in follow up procedures. Service Hogs in the Gov. were only paper pushers with gutted departments and will not really change, the future as I see it is more third party inspection to ensure that producers hold up their end of the bargain. Just like during construction third party inspection is utilized to ensure contractors are following their procedures, so will integrity inspections follow the same route to ensure producers are following Gov. guidelines.
 

Hoid

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Pipeline inspection is up to the company. Kinder Morgan has been pushing their inspection expertise as part of the reason why its such a great idea.

Has nothing to do with the "hogs", whatever that means.

Although at the moment I suppose it is the "hogs" who will be doing the inspection - which they should have done prior to buying it - but you know. Politics is politics.
 

Twin_Moose

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Pipeline inspection is up to the company. Kinder Morgan has been pushing their inspection expertise as part of the reason why its such a great idea.

Has nothing to do with the "hogs", whatever that means.

Although at the moment I suppose it is the "hogs" who will be doing the inspection - which they should have done prior to buying it - but you know. Politics is politics.

Third party Inspection also holds the contractor to Gov. guidelines but the Gov. do send OH&S and Environmental inspectors out to visit sites.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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too bad virtually all that failed reclamation dates from the early 20th century - before govt put any real laws in place specifying what clean up nees to be done when the mining is over! Now mining companies are expected to provide a real plan and actual finances explaining how they will eventually clean up their messes! It is so called orphan mines and oil wells that are the problem- they were opened up in the bad old days when you could dig a huge hole and then walk away at no cost! Lie-berals have wasted so much money on gravy for hogs they have none left for cleaning up the environment!



The laws are much tougher and more effective now- its just too bad that lie-berals are more focussed on supplying gravy to their civil service union hog allies and buying votes from the tens of thousands of illegals lie-berals have invited here- just in time for the blanket amnesty that lie-berals will issue just in time for the 2019 federal election in which the illegals will be expected to show their gratitude by voting lie-beral and enabling our idiot boy justin to cling to power at any price!



and how sloppy are lie-berals and their lazy hog allies when it comes to enforcing environmental laws? Consider this:


here is an article illustrating the real level of lie-beral interest in environmental issues and their lack of commitment to logical solutions to long term problems because sensible and economical solutions do not give them the gravy they think they are entitled to! With some comments of my own in brackets):

50-year-old leaking pipeline has no record of provincial inspections

dan healing, the canadian press. First posted: Thursday, january 26, 2017 09:05 pm est | updated: Thursday, january 26, 2017 09:17 pm est

a pipeline owned by tundra energy spilled approximately 200,000 litres (200 cubic metres) of oil on farmland owned by the ocean man first nation near stoughton, sask. The leak was discovered on jan. 20, 2016.

(with such a crap maintenance records as this it is no wonder that many cdns are opposed to pipelines!)

calgary — a pipeline that leaked 200,000 litres of oil into a frozen pond in the southeast corner of the saskatchewan is nearly 50 years old and there’s no record of it ever being inspected by provincial authorities, the government said thursday.

(one has to wonder if tundra energy ever did maintenance checks on their pipe? Or if we can trust and believe any records they may produce at an inquiry?)

the spill on the ocean man first nation was discovered and reported last friday but initially neither the government nor suspected owner tundra energy marketing ltd. Of calgary said they knew for sure where the oil had come from.

An excavation wednesday identified the two-kilometre pipe as belonging to tundra.

(great-at first, tundra denies even owning the pipe line! As the line is 50 years old- we have to assume those who installed it are now long retired and none of the new kids knew where the line ran?)

on thursday, doug macknight, assistant deputy minister of economy, said a small hole on top of the four-inch-diameter pipe on a weld connecting two segments had been found and the damaged portion removed for further analysis and metallurgic testing.

He said records don’t show any incidents since the oil gathering line was built in 1968 but it wasn’t actually licensed until 2014 by then-owner enbridge income fund holdings. Licences weren’t previously required for lines shorter than 15 kilometres.

“we have no record of inspecting it since we licensed it retroactively in 2014, so prior to that it was unlicensed and we just don’t have any record as to whether it was inspected,” macknight said.

(one might think that an aging line that had never previously been inspected might just benefit from an assessment of its condition shortly after govt became involved and answerable for its condition? But no- civil service hogs are far too lazy to bother with such a logical approach to their job!)

“the companies are required to inspect these pipes on an ongoing basis, part of their licensing requirements.”

tundra is required to file an initial incident report within the next few days and a detailed incident report within 90 days giving its assessment of cause, the province said in a statement.

It said a provincial investigation will examine whether the operator met requirements for inspections, why the leak detection system failed, if the age of the pipeline was a factor and what the root cause of the leak was.

(seems to me the root cause of the failure was total indifference- over a long period of time- by all who ought to have been interested in the condition of the pipe!)

macknight said the industry is required to update leak detection systems to meet standards as they change.

(if tundra is not even sure it was their pipe one has to suspect that no updated leak detection system was ever installed! More sloppy over sight by lazy hogs! They can collect their entitlements quickly enough but routine duty eludes them!)

the pipeline forms part of the southeast saskatchewan crude oil gathering system most recently operated by calgary-based enbridge.

It was apparently included in a $1-billion deal by enbridge late last year to sell pipelines and truck terminals to tundra, a subsidiary of privately owned james richardson & sons of winnipeg. Officials from tundra did not return phone calls on thursday.

(and here is a second view of the pipeline mess):

Human error a growing factor in pipeline leaks.
3/15. Canadian press. Ian bickis.

Calgary - human error — whether it's burying a pipeline too shallow or not fastening bolts tight enough— is increasingly a factor contributing to pipeline leaks, federal data suggests.

Figures compiled by the national energy board show that in the past three years, incorrect operation — which covers everything from failing to follow procedures to using equipment improperly — has caused an average of 20 leaks per year. That's up from an average of four annually in the previous six years.

(in other words- taking short cuts to save cost is becoming very popular with pipe line owners! And govt is not pressuring them on the issue! Just an example of more lazy hogs!)

"it's both probably one of the most difficult things for an organization to deal with, but also the most important," said mark fleming, a professor of safety culture at saint mary's university in halifax.

Fleming said operators have made improvements in safety practices, but to achieve the higher levels of safety required by other industries such as the airline or nuclear power sectors would require extreme attention to detail.

What may seem inconsequential at first can later contribute to a disaster, fleming said.

"it's like a ball balancing on the top of a pyramid," he said.

"safety, particularly very high levels of safety, requires constant attention and effort. And the tendency is for it to degrade."

pipelines installed in the u.s. In the past five years have the highest rate of failure of any built since the 1920s, and human error is partially to blame, said carl weimer, executive director of the washington-based pipeline safety trust.

(in other words, as our technology and engineering skill grows- we have more failures due to increasingly sloppy work and govt failure to regulate installers!)

"a lot of new pipelines being put in the ground just aren't being installed right, or things don't get tightened up quite enough, so within the first year or two things fail," said weimer.

The consequences of the improper management of pipelines have come to bear in several spills in recent years, resulting in oil coursing down rivers, gushing onto city streets and contaminating many hectares of canadian wilderness.

Alberta energy regulator investigations into plains midstream canada, for one, found that the company hadn't inspected its pipelines frequently or thoroughly enough, did a poor job of managing the ground around its pipelines and hadn't properly trained control room staff.

A subsequent audit found the company had improved its safety practices, but not before those failures helped contribute to a 4.5-million litre oil spill in 2011 near peace river, followed by a 463,000-litre oil leak into the red deer river a year later.

In 2015, a nexen energy pipeline south of fort mcmurray, alta. Burst, spilling about five million litres of emulsion including about 1.65 million litres of oil near its long lake oilsands operation. The aer's investigation into the incident continues, but nexen's preliminary conclusion was that the pipeline design was incompatible with the ground conditions, and wasn't installed properly.

"there's been a lot of learnings in our industry that have resulted from some very unfortunate incidents," said patrick smyth, vice-president of safety and engineering at the canadian energy pipeline association.

Smyth said cepa, which represents pipeline companies like transcanada and plains midstream, have improved their safety practices in recent years.

He points to the fact that cepa members spilled only about 2,500 litres of oil in 2015, with companies implementing stricter safety practices and using better inspection tools to prevent leaks.

(that`s nice- bad press and embarrassed govt have gotten an temporary improvement in safety standards!)

© provided by thecanadianpress.com

but even as companies make improvements on safety, fleming said getting pipelines towards the higher safety standards of industries like airlines will likely require significant financial sacrifice.

"to be able to do that, you need to have a very cautious approach to doing work, and that's something that's hard financially," said fleming. "it does have some cost implications that we are often very uncomfortable talking about."

(will lie-beral govt pressure these companies to work to a higher standard when they know that much of the company stock is held by civil service hogs who will not appreciate lie-berals cutting into their dividends? An angry hog does not vote lie-beral and large scale hog support is critical for lie-berals who wish to cling to power at any price!)




fantastic. The big fonts are back. But no capitals? I'm disappointed.

I did read the articles, that's why I quoted them for you in my response

Since the beginning of the Oilsands they have been done by machines what do you want them to do use shovels and wheelbarrows?


Weren't the oil sands touted as a major job creator? That's not happening with robot machines. And read the article again. Current reclamation is progressing so slowly that it will take a millennium to restore the environment. That is not surprising considering that if the oil sands are restored to the original state it would probably be first for any mining operation in Canada. And there is still the problem of those toxic holding ponds which cannot be restored.

With a pathetic response like that, it's obvious that you have come to the realization that your green utopia is founded on child slave labour.

... And frankly, I for one am shocked that you would advocate for child slave labour in the oilsands.




And I am surprised that you advocate child pornography.
 

Twin_Moose

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fantastic. The big fonts are back. But no capitals? I'm disappointed.




Weren't the oil sands touted as a major job creator? That's not happening with robot machines. And read the article again. Current reclamation is progressing so slowly that it will take a millennium to restore the environment. That is not surprising considering that if the oil sands are restored to the original state it would probably be first for any mining operation in Canada. And there is still the problem of those toxic holding ponds which cannot be restored.






And I am surprised that you advocate child pornography.

You didn't read in your article where a tailings pond has been reclaimed? Where did I say that reclamation is going to replicate pre-construction perfectly, it can come damn close though. Robot machines as you call it will replace the same operators everywhere e.g. Long haul drivers, besides a lot of these drivers are from the temporary workers program so not really taking Canadian workers jobs. Where was your outrage on losing jobs when the manned dew line sites were replaced by a central command center in Ont. through the 90's? That was a loss of hundreds of jobs, besides 100+ thousand of jobs will still be available even with losing a couple hundred jobs in Ft Mac.

By your own article that why reclamation is taking so long is that the Gov. wants 10 year proof that native plant establishment is confirmed. Plus outside of 1 project that received certification in the 90's the Gov. is ever changing it's criteria and hasn't confirmed the final measures to reach for certification even with multi reclamations that were completed.
 

petros

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I doubt anybody wants it returned to muskeg.

Especially since muskeg spews horrific amounts of methane into the atmosphere.
 

Twin_Moose

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I doubt anybody wants it returned to muskeg.

Especially since muskeg spews horrific amounts of methane into the atmosphere.

That is exactly what the Gov. and environmental groups are trying to achieve, they are saying that Muskegs are a filtering system for groundwater, they benefit more than they harm. Go figure
 

Twin_Moose

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Imagine the Red river valley in Man. if they were not allowed to put in drainage and build up the Red River, would have been a wasted valuable resource.

And I agree it is a lost opportunity to improve the area for environmental and wildlife sustainability by re-flooding the Oilsand reclaimed mine sites.
 

spilledthebeer

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Jan 26, 2017
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So you post links to articles that either you didn't read or cannot comprehend. Want me to highlight and repost the part where the oil companies are waiting for the government to set the criteria?


I suggest YOU go read up on the number of "orphan" oil wells and abandoned mines that are the REAL PROBLEM! The former owners are now dead and buried and OUT OF REACH!


LIE-beral hypocrites want to pretend this mess is still ongoing at full bore and that is a LIE! Rules are much tighter than they used to be when virtually ALL the major mess was created! And current resource extractors even pay some cash- as part of their licensing fees- into an insurance fund as well but it simply not enough to clean up the ancient messes!



And it does not help that our always LAZY civil service union Hogs take the easy and sloppy way out on EVERYTHING! One has only to look at the level of pipeline inspection that is NOT being done! Pipeline operators KNOW where the main areas of wear are and yet nobody does preventative maintenance!



Of course the CLASSIC example of Hog drunken stupidity and LIE-beral carelessness was the Walkerton Water Tragedy in which local politicians "saved money" by hiring an unqualified DRUNK to run their municipal water system and 7 people died and hundreds were sickened by the dirty water! With squealing Hogs then blaming other levels of govt for the drunken stupidity of their member! And then they sent the "poor victim" off to yet another Hog job- installing traffic lights!



Or one has only to look at the Great Toronto Restaurant Blitz of about 20 years back when it was discovered just how SLOPPY restaurant food handlers had become thanks to food inspectors basically halting inspections- it was all just too much trouble to do the job carefully and honestly till the food poisoning started- and then the Hogs began their whining about not having enough people to do the job properly!


And yes- it would be nice to put the problem on others but that ship has SAILED! There is NOBODY within legal reach so either govt does the clean up or it is IGNORED!


But as I have said- LIE-beral govt considers gravy for civil service union Hogs to be far more important than the economy or environment- hence the LIE-beral whining excuse that nobody in private sector has stepped up to do the work!


And of course the gravy LIE-beral will be raking in from their carbon crap and trade tax is ALREADY DEDICATED to caring for the teeming swarms of illegals that LIE-berals are collecting- and LYING ABOUT- as if they were crazy cat ladies rounding up strays!



We were told back in early 2016- before LIE-beral friendly media got shy about discussing the subject- that it would cost Ontari-owe over $2 billion dollars per year to tend to the Syrian refugees that Our idiot Boy Justin wanted to dump on us!


That $2 billion happens to be just about exactly the amount that Wyyne-bag LIE-berals are sucking out of our economy with their carbon crap and trade scam!



And the carbon crap money has ALL been spent- no wonder LIE-berals want to push up the price of carbon from $10 to $50 in 4 years!


LIE-beral will ALSO need $BILLIONS more to tend to the huge numbers of illegals- whose actual current numbers LIE-berals are LYING about- since so few of the illegals possess the language or educational skills needed to survive here in our debt ridden and oppressed economy!


LIE-beral vote buying is crippling our economy with huge taxes and debt and leaving dirt in our environment thanks to the carbon crap and trade tax that only cleans cash out of wallets and leaves the dirt in the air!



And LIE-berals now want to distract us from the HUGE NEW PROBLEMS they are creating by using whines about decades old problems they are continuing to IGNORE!!!!!!



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good luck with that crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Twin_Moose

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I suggest YOU go read up on the number of "orphan" oil wells and abandoned mines that are the REAL PROBLEM! The former owners are now dead and buried and OUT OF REACH!

Oil companies and Gov. stepped up to the plate on the orphaned well problem in Sask. and Alta, the new resource lease owners 1/3, Gov. 1/3, O&G reclamation fund 1/3. so the Oil industry stepped up to the plate with 2/3 of the clean up cost. I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, 95% of the orphaned wells were reclaimed during the resource down turn in a program to keep some of the O&G workers busy and from going on welfare.
 

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
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Oil companies and Gov. stepped up to the plate on the orphaned well problem in Sask. and Alta, the new resource lease owners 1/3, Gov. 1/3, O&G reclamation fund 1/3. so the Oil industry stepped up to the plate with 2/3 of the clean up cost. I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, 95% of the orphaned wells were reclaimed during the resource down turn in a program to keep some of the O&G workers busy and from going on welfare.


So ALL is now Sunny in our resource extraction industry?


Good news indeed!


But I note that Twin Moose specifically tells us the real clean up work was done by employees accustomed to the pace and style of private sector labour and NOT by those useless lazy Hogs!



The ones that cannot be bothered to carefully inspect the food we eat or be bothered to put chlorine into our water unless somebody raids their offices- as Walkerton politicians did- and CONFISCATES ALL THE BEER AND WHISKEY- and leaves behind notes in pay packets telling the HOGS where the nearest Alcoholics anonymous meetings would be held- and to ATTEND those meeting regularly or else!


Sadly- most of the Hogs DID take the warning- all except the KEY PIG- Stan Kabel who continued his drinking and DROPPED his inspections of water quality and refills of chlorinators- till people started DYING!



Kable has a happy new life now installing traffic lights and as there have not been any sudden increases in car crashes I presume he has leaned his lesson and now drinks only on his own time?



To bad it took seven dead and others dumped on kidney dialysis for LIFE- to teach the lesson!
 

Twin_Moose

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So ALL is now Sunny in our resource extraction industry?


Good news indeed!


But I note that Twin Moose specifically tells us the real clean up work was done by employees accustomed to the pace and style of private sector labour and NOT by those useless lazy Hogs!

I was replying to the O&G industry only not all resource industries in general. I do know some gravel pits have been reclaimed, as well as, some mine sites in Sask. Some coal mines have been reclaimed as well full specifics I'm not sure, but, none of this work is done by Gov. employees only Gov. environmentalists come on site to ensure compliance.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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I was replying to the O&G industry only not all resource industries in general. I do know some gravel pits have been reclaimed, as well as, some mine sites in Sask. Some coal mines have been reclaimed as well full specifics I'm not sure, but, none of this work is done by Gov. employees only Gov. environmentalists come on site to ensure compliance.

Environmental Scientists do reclamation.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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You didn't read in your article where a tailings pond has been reclaimed? Where did I say that reclamation is going to replicate pre-construction perfectly, it can come damn close though. Robot machines as you call it will replace the same operators everywhere e.g. Long haul drivers, besides a lot of these drivers are from the temporary workers program so not really taking Canadian workers jobs. Where was your outrage on losing jobs when the manned dew line sites were replaced by a central command center in Ont. through the 90's? That was a loss of hundreds of jobs, besides 100+ thousand of jobs will still be available even with losing a couple hundred jobs in Ft Mac.

By your own article that why reclamation is taking so long is that the Gov. wants 10 year proof that native plant establishment is confirmed. Plus outside of 1 project that received certification in the 90's the Gov. is ever changing it's criteria and hasn't confirmed the final measures to reach for certification even with multi reclamations that were completed.




I'm just using history. So far as I know every mining operation in Canada has left a filthy mess. Nature eventually claims the mined regions, but it takes decades. What incentive do the oil companies have to continue to restore the oil sands once the oil has run out and they have abandoned their operations?
 

Twin_Moose

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I'm just using history. So far as I know every mining operation in Canada has left a filthy mess. Nature eventually claims the mined regions, but it takes decades. What incentive do the oil companies have to continue to restore the oil sands once the oil has run out and they have abandoned their operations?

The incentive is 17% of projected profits put into a trust account in case an Oil company bails or goes bankrupt, non refundable until receipt of certification. What history do you have? By the way we are not talking about mining that is a different animal, or like some say comparing apples to oranges.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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The incentive is 17% of projected profits put into a trust account in case an Oil company bails or goes bankrupt, non refundable until receipt of certification. What history do you have? By the way we are not talking about mining that is a different animal, or like some say comparing apples to oranges.




Not really. Extraction using mining techniques is still widespread in the oil sands. Google damage caused by mining and check the images and you get the picture.
 

Twin_Moose

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Not really. Extraction using mining techniques is still widespread in the oil sands. Google damage caused by mining and check the images and you get the picture.

2 different industries tighter restrictions on O&G, what do you do for a living? I bet it is not in resources cause you don't know chit about it