Tesla's electric cars aren't as green as you might think

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,296
4
36
Fair enough not to many examples of deep mine reclamation that I can find compared to reclaimed Oil sand sites but here is a couple





And I can't find any Lithium mines reclaimed




And it takes an utterly duplicitous and DECEITFUL intellect to argue in favour of utterly disgraced LIE-beral policy!


The money that LIE-berals have WASTED on things like their idiot electric Toy car crap has led to health care rationing and this:



Here is an article illustrating how much of a mess LIE-berals have made of our health care system. And shows the LIE-beral hunt for gravy in a new and utterly loathsome light! With some comments of my own in brackets):

Docs give dying London man sick choice: Home or assisted suicide

By Brad Hunter. Published: May 18, 2018. Updated: May 18, 2018 4:43 PM EDT

Filed Under: Toronto SUN/ News/ Ontario

Roger Foley of London suffers from an incurable brain disorder. Doctors want to give him the heave ho home -- or to the graveyard.

A London, Ont., man staring into the face of death claims doctors are pressuring him to go home — or die in a medically assisted death.

(So what it comes down to is that LIE-berals cannot be bothered waiting for him to die and want to shove him along! In a COST CUTTING EXERCISE! I have written before of the POISONED CONSEQUENCES of letting LIE-berals set up two tier medicine- and HERE is just the tip of the loathsome iceberg! I have suggested that under two tier- LIE-beral pals will get excellent care- while the rest of us will be lucky to get a small pack of pain killers before we are sent home- and we will be asked to leave quietly and not disturb the privileged patients- AND NOW HERE IS MY PROOF OF SUCH A CYNICAL VIEW!)

Terminally ill Roger Foley — suffering from an incurable brain disorder called cerebellar ataxia — has spent the past two years confined to London Health Science Centres Victoria Hospital.

His condition severely limits his ability to move his arms and legs. He can also no longer feed himself or lift himself up and Foley has trouble speaking.

Now, the ailing Foley claims doctors gave him two choices: A forced discharge from the hospital or a medically assisted death.

(Used to be that family could FORCE a hospital to dal with very ill family members- just put them in emergency room and insist you don’t have the resources to deal with them- so hospital would reluctantly step up! But now thanks to LIE-berals they CAN LEGALLY KILL YOU if you are deemed a NUISANCE! Is this not starting to sound like something from Panam and its Hunger Games?)

And while his rapidly deteriorating condition qualifies him for assisted death, he told CTV News he wants to live. But he said in a YouTube video he has had bad experiences with home care.

“I have been given the wrong medication,” he claimed. “I have been provided food where I got food poisoning, I’ve had workers fall asleep in my living room, burners and appliances constantly left on, a fire, and I have been injured during exercises and transfers. When I report(ed) these things to the agency, I would not get a response.”

(Gosh- NO RESPONSE to the guy deemed a COSTLY NUISANCE by LIE-beral civil service union Hogs? NO SURPRISE THERE!)

Foley added: “Unfortunately, the Ontario health-care system and the Ontario home-care system has broken my spirit and sent my life into a void of bureaucracy accompanied by a lack of accountability and oversight.”

In addition, Foley told the network if he refuses to leave the hospital and rejects the agency, he will be forced to pay $1,800 a day.

(So there is the two tier medicine being set up! The guy CAN STAY in hospital IF he can PAY! Or else he can swallow the poison they want to feed him!)

“There are many individuals that are not being offered alternatives,” his lawyer Ken Berger told CTV News. “They are not being supported or not having the necessary services put in place in a way that relieves their suffering.”

“(Foley) is substantially suffering,’ he added. ‘He is going to fight this, not only to protect his own constitutional rights, but also the constitutional right of all Canadians.”

Foley’s lawsuit includes London Health Science Centres Victoria Hospital.

(All this reminds me of the other Ontari-owe man who was suffering from Diabetes and had the lower part of a leg amputated- and due to bad circulation his doctor ordered him to be supplied with a specialized machine for improving the blood circulation to that wound. Problem is that Doctor wanted the machine for 10 - 12 weeks and BUREAUCRATS would only allow the machine for 6 weeks! As the doctor explained to the Hogs- If the guy gets good blood circulation in his amputation wound- he will recover well enough to go back to work and support himself- but if the wound heals poorly then he will be at risk of needing another costly amputation and he will then be crippled to the point he CANNOT work and will become dependent on Ontari-owe govt disability payments! TOO BAD said the bureaucrats- our penny wise and pound foolish hunt for gravy is more important! God help us all if LIE-berals get away with creating the two tier medicine that Hogs are demanding- and OF COURSE Hogs will DEMAND to be in the upper tier!)
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
3
36
"And I can't find any Lithium mines reclaimed"

why are you even doing this?

what is it you think you are proving?
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
19
38
Edmonton
Yeas an actively mined site, but what will it look like once it is reclaimed? See above in the comparison I posted for you


You do realize that reclamation is a sham don't you? Currently only 11% of the mined area has been reclaimed and the mining area grows every day. And that is an oil industry stat. The actual area might be much lower. Also there are sections of the oil sands that may not be possible to return to nature, such as the tailings ponds which are currently over 77 km2. I expect that once the economic value of the oilsands has declined Alberta will be left with the usual massive mess left by every mining industry.



Land Reclamation


https://www.canadasoilsands.ca/en/explore-topics/land-reclamation

Mixed reviews for oilsands land reclamation track record


Mixed reviews for oilsands land reclamation track record | Calgary Herald
 

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,296
4
36
You do realize that reclamation is a sham don't you? Currently only 11% of the mined area has been reclaimed and the mining area grows every day. And that is an oil industry stat. The actual area might be much lower. Also there are sections of the oil sands that may not be possible to return to nature, such as the tailings ponds which are currently over 77 km2. I expect that once the economic value of the oilsands has declined Alberta will be left with the usual massive mess left by every mining industry.



Land Reclamation


https://www.canadasoilsands.ca/en/explore-topics/land-reclamation

Mixed reviews for oilsands land reclamation track record


Mixed reviews for oilsands land reclamation track record | Calgary Herald


Pity the POOR LIE-berals who have run out of Sunny Ways to refute cold hard facts!



LIE-berals think that pointing to mining companies that walked away from their messes decades ago- under NON EXISTENT LIE-beral legislation now entitles LIE-berals to make a COSTLY MESS with their electric Toy cars and battery CRAP!


Too bad LIE-berals are TOO STUPID top compare the cost and service life of something like a battery powered lawn mower to a lawn mower that plugs into a 120 volt wall socket with an extension cord! Oh sure the cord is sometimes a nuisance- but trying to find a replacement battery IS WAY WORSE!



Another matter LIE-berals do not wish to discuss is the effect their electric toy car GREED is having in other areas of life- the money they waste on their electric Toy cars would be better used to save peoples lives!


Medical care RATIONING is putting lives at risk!



There have been repeated reports of babies being sent home from hospital only to die!



There have been incidents where people have been threatened with the loss of limbs because bureaucrats do not want to allow the patients proper treatment- over the objections of doctors!



There are cases where people have been left crippled and helpless as they wait for treatment for bad hips and such!


There have been cases where people finally got to the top of the rationed list- only to be told: "sorry you are now TOO OLD and we cannot help you"!



This IS the price of LIE-beral GREED and civil service Hog ENTITLEMENT!



Consider: Here is an article reminding us of how unreliable and insincere LIE-berals are when it comes to maintaining services like health care. With some comments of my own in brackets):

Docs set to expose health-care lies

By Sue-Ann Levy. Published: April 2, 2018. Updated: April 2, 2018 9:01 PM EDT

Filed Under: Toronto SUN/ News/ Toronto & GTA

Concerned Ontario Doctors president Kulvinder Gill says it’s not just that the Liberals stole their campaign hashtag “#Carenotcuts” by transforming it into “#Careorcuts” to fight PC leader Doug Ford.

But as she told me Monday, they’ve “unilaterally stolen” more than $4 billion from front-line health care over the past three years.

(The worst of it is that LIE-beral priorities are BADLY SKEWED! The LIE-beral education budget is rising 50 percent FASTER than the health care budget- this in spite of the fact the number of our kids in school is dropping while the number of aged citizens seeking medical aid is RISING! This is a function of LIE-beral vote buying- teachers are more friendly to LIE-berals than frustrated doctors and nurses! The medical profession does not have the luxury of slacking off as teachers REGULARLY DO!)

( Teachers have become skilled at hiding literacy facts by designating an ever larger number of kids as “learning disabled” and thus not allowed to display their failing ability on literacy tests! Those kids who do write and fail the EQAO literacy tests get a shrug from teachers who tell us it’s the parents fault for not reacting to the kids problems sooner!)

(And teachers ignore the reality that school report cards ARE BAFFLEGAB- designed to protect kids ego while PREVENTING a parent from truly assessing how the kid is doing- and the worse the performance the MORE BAFFLEGAB teachers spout to HIDE the awkward truth! But medical staff have no such excuses- if a cancer patient does not get medication at timely intervals then death- and a lawsuit - is likely- medical professionals are the ONLY govt employees who MUST step along swiftly at work! All other govt employees can shrug and leave things for another day- or another month!)

Gill said it’s her group’s mission to expose the Liberal government’s health-care lies in the days leading up to the June 7 election.

That will start with their press conference at Queen’s Park Tuesday, which will give a report card on the Liberals’ health-care track record compared to the promises Premier Kathleen Wynne made in 2014.

“It’s going to be the truth … not these fabricated headlines Wynne’s government is putting out,” she said

(We all know how reliable LIE-beral promises are! How many Cdns are STILL WAITING for their 15 percent saving on auto insurance- the one LIE-berals promised- and then delivered a fifty percent cut to insurance benefits to accident victims! And who here has saved money on their smart meters that were supposed to help us and instead have simply enabled LIE-berals to hit us with EXTRA HIGH time of use charges! And it was LIE-berals who hit us with the health tax levy that was supposed to save our health care system and is simply another tax gouge- and its one that NO civil servant living in Ontari-owe and working for any level of govt has ever paid- because THEY ARE ENTITLED! Given the LONG LIST of LIE-beral failures- how can we trust anything they now promise during this election time as they spew nonsense like super powered manure spreaders in a desperate effort to save themselves?)

In Ontario, 29,000 doctors have entered their fifth year without a contract.

(LIE-berals would not let teachers go 5 weeks without a contract- because teacher votes are IMPORTANT to LIE-berals!)

“Wynne, the former health minister (Eric Hoskins) and even the current health minister have been great at manipulating facts and trying to convince the public that doctors and health-care providers are the enemy,” she said. “She wants people to think health care is not underfunded but that health-care workers are just not doing their jobs properly.”

(There have been documented cases of people and even babies sent home from Cdn hospitals simply due to lack of beds- and some of these people HAVE DIED! But LIE-berals admit NO FAULT! Whenever possible such disasters are settled out of court- meaning the outraged family is BRIBED and threatened with our money to keep silent about the shameful situations!)

She said patients need to be informed that nothing Wynne has given to buy votes- such as in “free” drugs- is “free” and most of the taxes we are paying towards health care are going to support a wasteful health care bureaucracy in the form of the Local Health Integration Networks (LHINs).

(LIE-beral support of LHINS is so twisted that some doctors are simple being paid to CLAIM they are the doctor of choice for Cdns- LIE-berals do not like it that so many Cdns do not have a family doctor so their solution is to PAY selected doctors to CLAIM to be your doc- but as these privileged LIE-beral pals DO NOT work on weekends or evenings- it means sick people CANNOT access “their” doctor in an off hour emergency- so they go to hospital emergency room instead and we pay TWICE for the medical service! It is VERY profitable to be a LIE-beral pal and supporter of LHIN`S that are heavily loaded with LIE-beral friendly bureaucrats pushing papers and doing little! As for other medical people- the rank and file that the public is most likely to come in contact with and actually who do most of the work and who LIE-berals distain- LIE-berals let them suffer!)

“The health-care system is a mess,” she said, predicting if the Liberals are re-elected they will build up even more of a bloated bureaucracy. “What’s happening is health care is being rationed.”

(LIE-berals are working with the standard play book beloved of all third world dictators- that is to put as many people as possible onto the LIE-beral payroll so they will be bought and paid for LOYAL supporters of LIE-beral party- its simply BUYING votes at any price so LIE-berals can cling to power!)

She said surgeons are leaving the province because instead of properly funding doctors and nurses needed to perform surgeries, the “lights are being turned off” in hospital operating rooms.

Gill said the Liberals are also playing a “charade” where shiny new hospitals are being built but the people needed to provide the care in those hospitals are not being properly funded.

(LIE-berals want to avoid an NDP style public relations health care disaster in which multiple floors of hospitals were left silent and empty- no patients, no nurses, no beds- just wasted hospital space gathering dust while waiting for a change of govt and till a new spending model was created! Images of those empty rooms haunted a LOT of sick people who could not get medical aid thanks to NDP Rae Days!)

She said it’s hypocritical of the Wynne Liberals to claim “they care about patients” and they have a commitment to health care when they are “still cutting millions of dollars from patient care.”

Gill said based on the government’s track record, she has no faith that if elected, the Wynne government will implement any of the funding increases announced in last week’s budget.

(Considering how frantically LIE-berals have been LYING about their deficits it seems likely they will not be able to borrow another penny as international bond rating people have already issued warnings about Ontari-owe debt and thus ALL grand LIE-beral plans will collapse into bankruptcy with the red ink partly covered up by the usual welter of LIES and miserable excuses- just like LIE-beral blather over E-health, gas plants, MaRs fiasco, paving scandals, multiple bridge messes, ORNGE and a host of other so called “stretch goals” and related failings!)
 

Twin_Moose

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 17, 2017
21,465
5,835
113
Twin Moose Creek
You do realize that reclamation is a sham don't you? Currently only 11% of the mined area has been reclaimed and the mining area grows every day. And that is an oil industry stat. The actual area might be much lower. Also there are sections of the oil sands that may not be possible to return to nature, such as the tailings ponds which are currently over 77 km2. I expect that once the economic value of the oilsands has declined Alberta will be left with the usual massive mess left by every mining industry.



Land Reclamation


https://www.canadasoilsands.ca/en/explore-topics/land-reclamation

Mixed reviews for oilsands land reclamation track record


Mixed reviews for oilsands land reclamation track record | Calgary Herald

What makes you think reclamation is a sham? Have you ever seen any of these sites before, during extraction, or after reclamation? Even your own article says that they have successfully reclaimed a Tailings pond

Reclamation can take decades. In 2010, Suncor became the first company to reclaim a former tailings pond to the point where the surface can support traffic, complete with a forest, streams and a marsh wetland.

How many Km do you think they have reclaimed since 2015

Out of the 650 square kilometres across northern Alberta actively used for oilsands mines, tailings ponds and other facilities in 2015, about 60 square kilometres had been permanently reclaimed, meaning restoration work was done but not certified as complete by the province.

And only waiting on Gov. certification on what has been reclaimed

The only land the province has certified as reclaimed and taken back as Crown land is Syncrude’s 104-hectare Gateway Hill started in the early 1980s.
One thing holding up additional certification is that companies with reforested land are waiting for the province to establish the specific criteria they need to meet

So I don't know what your trying to say when your own articles don't support your stand
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,337
113
Vancouver Island
You do realize that reclamation is a sham don't you? Currently only 11% of the mined area has been reclaimed and the mining area grows every day. And that is an oil industry stat. The actual area might be much lower. Also there are sections of the oil sands that may not be possible to return to nature, such as the tailings ponds which are currently over 77 km2. I expect that once the economic value of the oilsands has declined Alberta will be left with the usual massive mess left by every mining industry.



Land Reclamation


https://www.canadasoilsands.ca/en/explore-topics/land-reclamation

Mixed reviews for oilsands land reclamation track record

One thing holding up additional certification is that companies with reforested land are waiting for the province to establish the specific criteria they need to meet.
Mixed reviews for oilsands land reclamation track record | Calgary Herald

Should read articles before you post them. The biggest holdup is a lefty government can't even decide on the criteria they expect oil companies to follow .
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
146
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
No - this is an oil sands site.


This is a lithium miner.





Greenpeace and tides are awfully quiet 'bout that for some reason


Should read articles before you post them. The biggest holdup is a lefty government can't even decide on the criteria they expect oil companies to follow .


BS doesn't read.... Pop-up books are more his/her speed
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
19
38
Edmonton
What makes you think reclamation is a sham? Have you ever seen any of these sites before, during extraction, or after reclamation? Even your own article says that they have successfully reclaimed a Tailings pond



How many Km do you think they have reclaimed since 2015




So I don't know what your trying to say when your own articles don't support your stand


First, read the articles - they tell you the reclaimed area.



Second, one of the articles was published by the oil industry. Are you going argue with that?

Should read articles before you post them. The biggest holdup is a lefty government can't even decide on the criteria they expect oil companies to follow .




No- you read them The criteria for reclamation was established by the PCs.

This is a lithium miner.





Greenpeace and tides are awfully quiet 'bout that for some reason





BS doesn't read.... Pop-up books are more his/her speed


Too bad you can't post images of oil sands workers, especially those that have been replaced by machines.

Pity the POOR LIE-berals who have run out of Sunny Ways to refute cold hard facts!



LIE-berals think that pointing to mining companies that walked away from their messes decades ago- under NON EXISTENT LIE-beral legislation now entitles LIE-berals to make a COSTLY MESS with their electric Toy cars and battery CRAP!


Too bad LIE-berals are TOO STUPID top compare the cost and service life of something like a battery powered lawn mower to a lawn mower that plugs into a 120 volt wall socket with an extension cord! Oh sure the cord is sometimes a nuisance- but trying to find a replacement battery IS WAY WORSE!



Another matter LIE-berals do not wish to discuss is the effect their electric toy car GREED is having in other areas of life- the money they waste on their electric Toy cars would be better used to save peoples lives!


Medical care RATIONING is putting lives at risk!



There have been repeated reports of babies being sent home from hospital only to die!



There have been incidents where people have been threatened with the loss of limbs because bureaucrats do not want to allow the patients proper treatment- over the objections of doctors!



There are cases where people have been left crippled and helpless as they wait for treatment for bad hips and such!


There have been cases where people finally got to the top of the rationed list- only to be told: "sorry you are now TOO OLD and we cannot help you"!



This IS the price of LIE-beral GREED and civil service Hog ENTITLEMENT!



Consider: Here is an article reminding us of how unreliable and insincere LIE-berals are when it comes to maintaining services like health care. With some comments of my own in brackets):

Docs set to expose health-care lies

By Sue-Ann Levy. Published: April 2, 2018. Updated: April 2, 2018 9:01 PM EDT

Filed Under: Toronto SUN/ News/ Toronto & GTA

Concerned Ontario Doctors president Kulvinder Gill says it’s not just that the Liberals stole their campaign hashtag “#Carenotcuts” by transforming it into “#Careorcuts” to fight PC leader Doug Ford.

But as she told me Monday, they’ve “unilaterally stolen” more than $4 billion from front-line health care over the past three years.

(The worst of it is that LIE-beral priorities are BADLY SKEWED! The LIE-beral education budget is rising 50 percent FASTER than the health care budget- this in spite of the fact the number of our kids in school is dropping while the number of aged citizens seeking medical aid is RISING! This is a function of LIE-beral vote buying- teachers are more friendly to LIE-berals than frustrated doctors and nurses! The medical profession does not have the luxury of slacking off as teachers REGULARLY DO!)

( Teachers have become skilled at hiding literacy facts by designating an ever larger number of kids as “learning disabled” and thus not allowed to display their failing ability on literacy tests! Those kids who do write and fail the EQAO literacy tests get a shrug from teachers who tell us it’s the parents fault for not reacting to the kids problems sooner!)

(And teachers ignore the reality that school report cards ARE BAFFLEGAB- designed to protect kids ego while PREVENTING a parent from truly assessing how the kid is doing- and the worse the performance the MORE BAFFLEGAB teachers spout to HIDE the awkward truth! But medical staff have no such excuses- if a cancer patient does not get medication at timely intervals then death- and a lawsuit - is likely- medical professionals are the ONLY govt employees who MUST step along swiftly at work! All other govt employees can shrug and leave things for another day- or another month!)

Gill said it’s her group’s mission to expose the Liberal government’s health-care lies in the days leading up to the June 7 election.

That will start with their press conference at Queen’s Park Tuesday, which will give a report card on the Liberals’ health-care track record compared to the promises Premier Kathleen Wynne made in 2014.

“It’s going to be the truth … not these fabricated headlines Wynne’s government is putting out,” she said

(We all know how reliable LIE-beral promises are! How many Cdns are STILL WAITING for their 15 percent saving on auto insurance- the one LIE-berals promised- and then delivered a fifty percent cut to insurance benefits to accident victims! And who here has saved money on their smart meters that were supposed to help us and instead have simply enabled LIE-berals to hit us with EXTRA HIGH time of use charges! And it was LIE-berals who hit us with the health tax levy that was supposed to save our health care system and is simply another tax gouge- and its one that NO civil servant living in Ontari-owe and working for any level of govt has ever paid- because THEY ARE ENTITLED! Given the LONG LIST of LIE-beral failures- how can we trust anything they now promise during this election time as they spew nonsense like super powered manure spreaders in a desperate effort to save themselves?)

In Ontario, 29,000 doctors have entered their fifth year without a contract.

(LIE-berals would not let teachers go 5 weeks without a contract- because teacher votes are IMPORTANT to LIE-berals!)

“Wynne, the former health minister (Eric Hoskins) and even the current health minister have been great at manipulating facts and trying to convince the public that doctors and health-care providers are the enemy,” she said. “She wants people to think health care is not underfunded but that health-care workers are just not doing their jobs properly.”

(There have been documented cases of people and even babies sent home from Cdn hospitals simply due to lack of beds- and some of these people HAVE DIED! But LIE-berals admit NO FAULT! Whenever possible such disasters are settled out of court- meaning the outraged family is BRIBED and threatened with our money to keep silent about the shameful situations!)

She said patients need to be informed that nothing Wynne has given to buy votes- such as in “free” drugs- is “free” and most of the taxes we are paying towards health care are going to support a wasteful health care bureaucracy in the form of the Local Health Integration Networks (LHINs).

(LIE-beral support of LHINS is so twisted that some doctors are simple being paid to CLAIM they are the doctor of choice for Cdns- LIE-berals do not like it that so many Cdns do not have a family doctor so their solution is to PAY selected doctors to CLAIM to be your doc- but as these privileged LIE-beral pals DO NOT work on weekends or evenings- it means sick people CANNOT access “their” doctor in an off hour emergency- so they go to hospital emergency room instead and we pay TWICE for the medical service! It is VERY profitable to be a LIE-beral pal and supporter of LHIN`S that are heavily loaded with LIE-beral friendly bureaucrats pushing papers and doing little! As for other medical people- the rank and file that the public is most likely to come in contact with and actually who do most of the work and who LIE-berals distain- LIE-berals let them suffer!)

“The health-care system is a mess,” she said, predicting if the Liberals are re-elected they will build up even more of a bloated bureaucracy. “What’s happening is health care is being rationed.”

(LIE-berals are working with the standard play book beloved of all third world dictators- that is to put as many people as possible onto the LIE-beral payroll so they will be bought and paid for LOYAL supporters of LIE-beral party- its simply BUYING votes at any price so LIE-berals can cling to power!)

She said surgeons are leaving the province because instead of properly funding doctors and nurses needed to perform surgeries, the “lights are being turned off” in hospital operating rooms.

Gill said the Liberals are also playing a “charade” where shiny new hospitals are being built but the people needed to provide the care in those hospitals are not being properly funded.

(LIE-berals want to avoid an NDP style public relations health care disaster in which multiple floors of hospitals were left silent and empty- no patients, no nurses, no beds- just wasted hospital space gathering dust while waiting for a change of govt and till a new spending model was created! Images of those empty rooms haunted a LOT of sick people who could not get medical aid thanks to NDP Rae Days!)

She said it’s hypocritical of the Wynne Liberals to claim “they care about patients” and they have a commitment to health care when they are “still cutting millions of dollars from patient care.”

Gill said based on the government’s track record, she has no faith that if elected, the Wynne government will implement any of the funding increases announced in last week’s budget.

(Considering how frantically LIE-berals have been LYING about their deficits it seems likely they will not be able to borrow another penny as international bond rating people have already issued warnings about Ontari-owe debt and thus ALL grand LIE-beral plans will collapse into bankruptcy with the red ink partly covered up by the usual welter of LIES and miserable excuses- just like LIE-beral blather over E-health, gas plants, MaRs fiasco, paving scandals, multiple bridge messes, ORNGE and a host of other so called “stretch goals” and related failings!)




What no capital letters? But off-topic as usual.
 

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,296
4
36
First, read the articles - they tell you the reclaimed area.



Second, one of the articles was published by the oil industry. Are you going argue with that?






No- you read them The criteria for reclamation was established by the PCs.




Too bad you can't post images of oil sands workers, especially those that have been replaced by machines.






What no capital letters? But off-topic as usual.




Too bad virtually ALL that failed reclamation dates from the EARLY 20th century - BEFORE govt put any real laws in place specifying what clean up nees to be done when the mining is over! Now mining companies are expected to provide a real plan and actual finances explaining how they will eventually clean up their messes! It is so called orphan mines and oil wells that are the problem- they were opened up in the bad old days when you COULD dig a huge hole and then walk away at no cost! LIE-berals have wasted so much money on gravy for Hogs they have none left for cleaning up the environment!



The laws are much tougher and more effective now- its just too bad that LIE-berals are more focussed on supplying gravy to their civil service union Hog allies and buying votes from the tens of thousands of illegals LIE-berals have invited here- just in time for the blanket amnesty that LIE-berals will issue just in time for the 2019 federal election in which the illegals will be expected to show their gratitude by voting LIE-beral and enabling Our idiot Boy Justin to cling to power at any price!



And how SLOPPY are LIE-berals and their LAZY Hog allies when it comes to enforcing environmental laws? Consider this:


Here is an article illustrating the real level of LIE-beral interest in environmental issues and their lack of commitment to logical solutions to long term problems because sensible and economical solutions do not give them the gravy they think they are entitled to! With some comments of my own in brackets):

50-year-old leaking pipeline has no record of provincial inspections

Dan Healing, THE CANADIAN PRESS. First posted: Thursday, January 26, 2017 09:05 PM EST | Updated: Thursday, January 26, 2017 09:17 PM EST

A pipeline owned by Tundra Energy spilled approximately 200,000 litres (200 cubic metres) of oil on farmland owned by the Ocean Man First Nation near Stoughton, Sask. The leak was discovered on Jan. 20, 2016.

(With such a crap maintenance records as this it is no wonder that many Cdns are opposed to pipelines!)

CALGARY — A pipeline that leaked 200,000 litres of oil into a frozen pond in the southeast corner of the Saskatchewan is nearly 50 years old and there’s no record of it ever being inspected by provincial authorities, the government said Thursday.

(One has to wonder if Tundra Energy ever did maintenance checks on their pipe? Or if we can trust and believe any records they may produce at an inquiry?)

The spill on the Ocean Man First Nation was discovered and reported last Friday but initially neither the government nor suspected owner Tundra Energy Marketing Ltd. of Calgary said they knew for sure where the oil had come from.

An excavation Wednesday identified the two-kilometre pipe as belonging to Tundra.

(Great-at first, Tundra denies even owning the pipe line! As the line is 50 years old- we have to assume those who installed it are now long retired and none of the new kids knew where the line ran?)

On Thursday, Doug MacKnight, assistant deputy minister of Economy, said a small hole on top of the four-inch-diameter pipe on a weld connecting two segments had been found and the damaged portion removed for further analysis and metallurgic testing.

He said records don’t show any incidents since the oil gathering line was built in 1968 but it wasn’t actually licensed until 2014 by then-owner Enbridge Income Fund Holdings. Licences weren’t previously required for lines shorter than 15 kilometres.

“We have no record of inspecting it since we licensed it retroactively in 2014, so prior to that it was unlicensed and we just don’t have any record as to whether it was inspected,” MacKnight said.

(One might think that an aging line that had never previously been inspected MIGHT just benefit from an assessment of its condition shortly after govt became involved and answerable for its condition? But no- civil service Hogs are far too lazy to bother with such a logical approach to their job!)

“The companies are required to inspect these pipes on an ongoing basis, part of their licensing requirements.”

Tundra is required to file an initial incident report within the next few days and a detailed incident report within 90 days giving its assessment of cause, the province said in a statement.

It said a provincial investigation will examine whether the operator met requirements for inspections, why the leak detection system failed, if the age of the pipeline was a factor and what the root cause of the leak was.

(Seems to me the root cause of the failure was total indifference- over a LONG period of time- by all who ought to have been interested in the condition of the pipe!)

MacKnight said the industry is required to update leak detection systems to meet standards as they change.

(If Tundra is not even sure it was their pipe one has to suspect that NO updated leak detection system was ever installed! More sloppy over sight by lazy Hogs! They can collect their entitlements quickly enough but routine duty eludes them!)

The pipeline forms part of the southeast Saskatchewan crude oil gathering system most recently operated by Calgary-based Enbridge.

It was apparently included in a $1-billion deal by Enbridge late last year to sell pipelines and truck terminals to Tundra, a subsidiary of privately owned James Richardson & Sons of Winnipeg. Officials from Tundra did not return phone calls on Thursday.

(And here is a second view of the pipeline mess):

Human error a growing factor in pipeline leaks.
3/15. Canadian Press. Ian Bickis.

CALGARY - Human error — whether it's burying a pipeline too shallow or not fastening bolts tight enough— is increasingly a factor contributing to pipeline leaks, federal data suggests.

Figures compiled by the National Energy Board show that in the past three years, incorrect operation — which covers everything from failing to follow procedures to using equipment improperly — has caused an average of 20 leaks per year. That's up from an average of four annually in the previous six years.

(IN other words- taking short cuts to save cost is becoming very popular with pipe line owners! And govt is not pressuring them on the issue! Just an example of MORE LAZY Hogs!)

"It's both probably one of the most difficult things for an organization to deal with, but also the most important," said Mark Fleming, a professor of safety culture at Saint Mary's University in Halifax.

Fleming said operators have made improvements in safety practices, but to achieve the higher levels of safety required by other industries such as the airline or nuclear power sectors would require extreme attention to detail.

What may seem inconsequential at first can later contribute to a disaster, Fleming said.

"It's like a ball balancing on the top of a pyramid," he said.

"Safety, particularly very high levels of safety, requires constant attention and effort. And the tendency is for it to degrade."

Pipelines installed in the U.S. in the past five years have the highest rate of failure of any built since the 1920s, and human error is partially to blame, said Carl Weimer, executive director of the Washington-based Pipeline Safety Trust.

(IN other words, as our technology and engineering skill grows- we have MORE failures due to increasingly sloppy work and govt failure to regulate installers!)

"A lot of new pipelines being put in the ground just aren't being installed right, or things don't get tightened up quite enough, so within the first year or two things fail," said Weimer.

The consequences of the improper management of pipelines have come to bear in several spills in recent years, resulting in oil coursing down rivers, gushing onto city streets and contaminating many hectares of Canadian wilderness.

Alberta Energy Regulator investigations into Plains Midstream Canada, for one, found that the company hadn't inspected its pipelines frequently or thoroughly enough, did a poor job of managing the ground around its pipelines and hadn't properly trained control room staff.

A subsequent audit found the company had improved its safety practices, but not before those failures helped contribute to a 4.5-million litre oil spill in 2011 near Peace River, followed by a 463,000-litre oil leak into the Red Deer River a year later.

In 2015, a Nexen Energy pipeline south of Fort McMurray, Alta. burst, spilling about five million litres of emulsion including about 1.65 million litres of oil near its Long Lake oilsands operation. The AER's investigation into the incident continues, but Nexen's preliminary conclusion was that the pipeline design was incompatible with the ground conditions, and wasn't installed properly.

"There's been a lot of learnings in our industry that have resulted from some very unfortunate incidents," said Patrick Smyth, vice-president of safety and engineering at the Canadian Energy Pipeline Association.

Smyth said CEPA, which represents pipeline companies like TransCanada and Plains Midstream, have improved their safety practices in recent years.

He points to the fact that CEPA members spilled only about 2,500 litres of oil in 2015, with companies implementing stricter safety practices and using better inspection tools to prevent leaks.

(That`s nice- bad press and embarrassed govt have gotten an TEMPORARY improvement in safety standards!)

© Provided by thecanadianpress.com

But even as companies make improvements on safety, Fleming said getting pipelines towards the higher safety standards of industries like airlines will likely require significant financial sacrifice.

"To be able to do that, you need to have a very cautious approach to doing work, and that's something that's hard financially," said Fleming. "It does have some cost implications that we are often very uncomfortable talking about."

(Will LIE-beral govt pressure these companies to work to a higher standard when they know that much of the company stock is held by civil service Hogs who will not appreciate LIE-berals cutting into their dividends? An angry Hog does not vote LIE-beral and large scale Hog support is critical for LIE-berals who wish to cling to power at any price!)
 

Twin_Moose

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 17, 2017
21,465
5,835
113
Twin Moose Creek
First, read the articles - they tell you the reclaimed area.



Second, one of the articles was published by the oil industry. Are you going argue with that?






No- you read them The criteria for reclamation was established by the PCs.




Too bad you can't post images of oil sands workers, especially those that have been replaced by machines.






What no capital letters? But off-topic as usual.

I did read the articles, that's why I quoted them for you in my response

Since the beginning of the Oilsands they have been done by machines what do you want them to do use shovels and wheelbarrows?
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
26,735
7,037
113
B.C.
I did read the articles, that's why I quoted them for you in my response

Since the beginning of the Oilsands they have been done by machines what do you want them to do use shovels and wheelbarrows?
Indian children , like those Africans below . It would give them a means to afford a steady diet of coke and potato chips .
 

Twin_Moose

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 17, 2017
21,465
5,835
113
Twin Moose Creek
Too bad virtually ALL that failed reclamation dates from the EARLY 20th century - BEFORE govt put any real laws in place specifying what clean up nees to be done when the mining is over! Now mining companies are expected to provide a real plan and actual finances explaining how they will eventually clean up their messes! It is so called orphan mines and oil wells that are the problem- they were opened up in the bad old days when you COULD dig a huge hole and then walk away at no cost! LIE-berals have wasted so much money on gravy for Hogs they have none left for cleaning up the environment!



The laws are much tougher and more effective now- its just too bad that LIE-berals are more focussed on supplying gravy to their civil service union Hog allies and buying votes from the tens of thousands of illegals LIE-berals have invited here- just in time for the blanket amnesty that LIE-berals will issue just in time for the 2019 federal election in which the illegals will be expected to show their gratitude by voting LIE-beral and enabling Our idiot Boy Justin to cling to power at any price!




Here is an article illustrating the real level of LIE-beral interest in environmental issues and their lack of commitment to logical solutions to long term problems because sensible and economical solutions do not give them the gravy they think they are entitled to! With some comments of my own in brackets):

50-year-old leaking pipeline has no record of provincial inspections

Dan Healing, THE CANADIAN PRESS. First posted: Thursday, January 26, 2017 09:05 PM EST | Updated: Thursday, January 26, 2017 09:17 PM EST

Here is an example of some problems in the pipeline hate industry TEML not Tundra bought the pipeline 1 year before the leak, the line is 50 years old with 1 recorded leak and the anti pipeline media did a hatchet job on it. Let's start with this line was under Provincial not Federal guidelines and was put in the ground before the modern guidelines were set up. Provincial guidelines until very recently didn't have an integrity mandate like Federal pipelines, leak detection was always visual until modern technology started becoming feasible. TEML was putting together an integrity program on their recently purchased pipeline system before the leak took place but didn't have enough time to review the records to target what would appear to be the weakest link. Enbridge Sask. did have an integrity program but poor on keeping records, they were a separate division than Enbridge Canada that is mandated to keep very good records due to the NEB.

10 years ago this wouldn't have even hit the news now with anti pipeline hatred that is coming out every little problem is being blown out of proportion.
 

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,296
4
36
here is an example of some problems in the pipeline hate industry teml not tundra bought the pipeline 1 year before the leak, the line is 50 years old with 1 recorded leak and the anti pipeline media did a hatchet job on it. Let's start with this line was under provincial not federal guidelines and was put in the ground before the modern guidelines were set up. Provincial guidelines until very recently didn't have an integrity mandate like federal pipelines, leak detection was always visual until modern technology started becoming feasible. Teml was putting together an integrity program on their recently purchased pipeline system before the leak took place but didn't have enough time to review the records to target what would appear to be the weakest link. Enbridge sask. Did have an integrity program but poor on keeping records, they were a separate division than enbridge canada that is mandated to keep very good records due to the neb.

10 years ago this wouldn't have even hit the news now with anti pipeline hatred that is coming out every little problem is being blown out of proportion.




the little detail you are missing is that we have been paying civil service union hogs to inspect our pipelines and to prevent leaks and spills!



as always with hogs- they did such a fine job they overlooked a pipeline for fifty years- until it leaked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


apparently those hogs got transferred west 20 years ago after the sunrise propane explosion that destroyed a toronto neighbourhood!!!!!!!!!


and we were paying hogs good money- since they never work cheap- to issue warnings to sunrise that what they were doing was dangerous- right up until the explosion!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,337
113
Vancouver Island
Too bad virtually ALL that failed reclamation dates from the EARLY 20th century - BEFORE govt put any real laws in place specifying what clean up nees to be done when the mining is over! Now mining companies are expected to provide a real plan and actual finances explaining how they will eventually clean up their messes! It is so called orphan mines and oil wells that are the problem- they were opened up in the bad old days when you COULD dig a huge hole and then walk away at no cost! LIE-berals have wasted so much money on gravy for Hogs they have none left for cleaning up the environment!



The laws are much tougher and more effective now- its just too bad that LIE-berals are more focussed on supplying gravy to their civil service union Hog allies and buying votes from the tens of thousands of illegals LIE-berals have invited here- just in time for the blanket amnesty that LIE-berals will issue just in time for the 2019 federal election in which the illegals will be expected to show their gratitude by voting LIE-beral and enabling Our idiot Boy Justin to cling to power at any price!



And how SLOPPY are LIE-berals and their LAZY Hog allies when it comes to enforcing environmental laws? Consider this:


Here is an article illustrating the real level of LIE-beral interest in environmental issues and their lack of commitment to logical solutions to long term problems because sensible and economical solutions do not give them the gravy they think they are entitled to! With some comments of my own in brackets):

50-year-old leaking pipeline has no record of provincial inspections

Dan Healing, THE CANADIAN PRESS. First posted: Thursday, January 26, 2017 09:05 PM EST | Updated: Thursday, January 26, 2017 09:17 PM EST

A pipeline owned by Tundra Energy spilled approximately 200,000 litres (200 cubic metres) of oil on farmland owned by the Ocean Man First Nation near Stoughton, Sask. The leak was discovered on Jan. 20, 2016.

(With such a crap maintenance records as this it is no wonder that many Cdns are opposed to pipelines!)

CALGARY — A pipeline that leaked 200,000 litres of oil into a frozen pond in the southeast corner of the Saskatchewan is nearly 50 years old and there’s no record of it ever being inspected by provincial authorities, the government said Thursday.

(One has to wonder if Tundra Energy ever did maintenance checks on their pipe? Or if we can trust and believe any records they may produce at an inquiry?)

The spill on the Ocean Man First Nation was discovered and reported last Friday but initially neither the government nor suspected owner Tundra Energy Marketing Ltd. of Calgary said they knew for sure where the oil had come from.

An excavation Wednesday identified the two-kilometre pipe as belonging to Tundra.

(Great-at first, Tundra denies even owning the pipe line! As the line is 50 years old- we have to assume those who installed it are now long retired and none of the new kids knew where the line ran?)

On Thursday, Doug MacKnight, assistant deputy minister of Economy, said a small hole on top of the four-inch-diameter pipe on a weld connecting two segments had been found and the damaged portion removed for further analysis and metallurgic testing.

He said records don’t show any incidents since the oil gathering line was built in 1968 but it wasn’t actually licensed until 2014 by then-owner Enbridge Income Fund Holdings. Licences weren’t previously required for lines shorter than 15 kilometres.

“We have no record of inspecting it since we licensed it retroactively in 2014, so prior to that it was unlicensed and we just don’t have any record as to whether it was inspected,” MacKnight said.

(One might think that an aging line that had never previously been inspected MIGHT just benefit from an assessment of its condition shortly after govt became involved and answerable for its condition? But no- civil service Hogs are far too lazy to bother with such a logical approach to their job!)

“The companies are required to inspect these pipes on an ongoing basis, part of their licensing requirements.”

Tundra is required to file an initial incident report within the next few days and a detailed incident report within 90 days giving its assessment of cause, the province said in a statement.

It said a provincial investigation will examine whether the operator met requirements for inspections, why the leak detection system failed, if the age of the pipeline was a factor and what the root cause of the leak was.

(Seems to me the root cause of the failure was total indifference- over a LONG period of time- by all who ought to have been interested in the condition of the pipe!)

MacKnight said the industry is required to update leak detection systems to meet standards as they change.

(If Tundra is not even sure it was their pipe one has to suspect that NO updated leak detection system was ever installed! More sloppy over sight by lazy Hogs! They can collect their entitlements quickly enough but routine duty eludes them!)

The pipeline forms part of the southeast Saskatchewan crude oil gathering system most recently operated by Calgary-based Enbridge.

It was apparently included in a $1-billion deal by Enbridge late last year to sell pipelines and truck terminals to Tundra, a subsidiary of privately owned James Richardson & Sons of Winnipeg. Officials from Tundra did not return phone calls on Thursday.

(And here is a second view of the pipeline mess):

Human error a growing factor in pipeline leaks.
3/15. Canadian Press. Ian Bickis.

CALGARY - Human error — whether it's burying a pipeline too shallow or not fastening bolts tight enough— is increasingly a factor contributing to pipeline leaks, federal data suggests.

Figures compiled by the National Energy Board show that in the past three years, incorrect operation — which covers everything from failing to follow procedures to using equipment improperly — has caused an average of 20 leaks per year. That's up from an average of four annually in the previous six years.

(IN other words- taking short cuts to save cost is becoming very popular with pipe line owners! And govt is not pressuring them on the issue! Just an example of MORE LAZY Hogs!)

"It's both probably one of the most difficult things for an organization to deal with, but also the most important," said Mark Fleming, a professor of safety culture at Saint Mary's University in Halifax.

Fleming said operators have made improvements in safety practices, but to achieve the higher levels of safety required by other industries such as the airline or nuclear power sectors would require extreme attention to detail.

What may seem inconsequential at first can later contribute to a disaster, Fleming said.

"It's like a ball balancing on the top of a pyramid," he said.

"Safety, particularly very high levels of safety, requires constant attention and effort. And the tendency is for it to degrade."

Pipelines installed in the U.S. in the past five years have the highest rate of failure of any built since the 1920s, and human error is partially to blame, said Carl Weimer, executive director of the Washington-based Pipeline Safety Trust.

(IN other words, as our technology and engineering skill grows- we have MORE failures due to increasingly sloppy work and govt failure to regulate installers!)

"A lot of new pipelines being put in the ground just aren't being installed right, or things don't get tightened up quite enough, so within the first year or two things fail," said Weimer.

The consequences of the improper management of pipelines have come to bear in several spills in recent years, resulting in oil coursing down rivers, gushing onto city streets and contaminating many hectares of Canadian wilderness.

Alberta Energy Regulator investigations into Plains Midstream Canada, for one, found that the company hadn't inspected its pipelines frequently or thoroughly enough, did a poor job of managing the ground around its pipelines and hadn't properly trained control room staff.

A subsequent audit found the company had improved its safety practices, but not before those failures helped contribute to a 4.5-million litre oil spill in 2011 near Peace River, followed by a 463,000-litre oil leak into the Red Deer River a year later.

In 2015, a Nexen Energy pipeline south of Fort McMurray, Alta. burst, spilling about five million litres of emulsion including about 1.65 million litres of oil near its Long Lake oilsands operation. The AER's investigation into the incident continues, but Nexen's preliminary conclusion was that the pipeline design was incompatible with the ground conditions, and wasn't installed properly.

"There's been a lot of learnings in our industry that have resulted from some very unfortunate incidents," said Patrick Smyth, vice-president of safety and engineering at the Canadian Energy Pipeline Association.

Smyth said CEPA, which represents pipeline companies like TransCanada and Plains Midstream, have improved their safety practices in recent years.

He points to the fact that CEPA members spilled only about 2,500 litres of oil in 2015, with companies implementing stricter safety practices and using better inspection tools to prevent leaks.

(That`s nice- bad press and embarrassed govt have gotten an TEMPORARY improvement in safety standards!)

© Provided by thecanadianpress.com

But even as companies make improvements on safety, Fleming said getting pipelines towards the higher safety standards of industries like airlines will likely require significant financial sacrifice.

"To be able to do that, you need to have a very cautious approach to doing work, and that's something that's hard financially," said Fleming. "It does have some cost implications that we are often very uncomfortable talking about."

(Will LIE-beral govt pressure these companies to work to a higher standard when they know that much of the company stock is held by civil service Hogs who will not appreciate LIE-berals cutting into their dividends? An angry Hog does not vote LIE-beral and large scale Hog support is critical for LIE-berals who wish to cling to power at any price!)

So you post links to articles that either you didn't read or cannot comprehend. Want me to highlight and repost the part where the oil companies are waiting for the government to set the criteria?
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
146
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Too bad you can't post images of oil sands workers, especially those that have been replaced by machines.

With a pathetic response like that, it's obvious that you have come to the realization that your green utopia is founded on child slave labour.

... And frankly, I for one am shocked that you would advocate for child slave labour in the oilsands.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,678
11,560
113
Low Earth Orbit
As in situ tech grows, mining oil recedes.

That was hard to figure out.

BTW lithium is on the way out as the graphene revolution changes our lives in all aspects forever.

The biggest jump in tech since digital.

It's a beautiful thing.