Tar sands = filthy dirty bitumen "oil"

dumpthemonarchy

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Not likely: oil and hydrocarbon based products are too instrinsic to our society for them to vanish. In terms of an energy source and even as a building material, yes it should be possible to develop some type of replacement, but we have a long way to go to come up with replacement(s) and its uses for things like fertilizers will mandate its use even after. Most people have no concept of how many petrochemical based products are in and impacting their daily lives. They only way they wouldn't is if you were essentially limiting yourself to 19th century technology.

It's not the end of our usage of oil, it's the end of cheap oil. If gas is $2-3 a litre, you wonder what that big hunk of metal in the garage is for since you can hardly afford to drive it and food has doubled or tripled in price.

There is no replacement for oil when it comes to fertilizer because oil makes fertilizer. Although I heard on CBC that there are natural methods being used right now to raise cattle that are fairly practical, but are not being used on a large scale. We can adjust if peak oil comes gently because we are such technocrats.
 

AnnaG

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No replacement for oil based fertilizer? Weird. Teck-Cominco's smelter ships out fertilizer by the trainload. I didn't think the smelter had anything to do with refining oil into fertilizer products.
I do know that we use something other than petroleum byproducts to fertilize our gardens and fruit trees (critter shyte to be precise).
 
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dumpthemonarchy

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No replacement for oil based fertilizer? Weird. Teck-Cominco's smelter ships out fertilizer by the trainload. I didn't think the smelter had anything to do with refining oil into fertilizer products.
I do know that we use something other than petroleum byproducts to fertilize our gardens and fruit trees (critter shyte to be precise).

Oil feeds the world. Other things help, but oil is the feedstock for everything produced on earth today.

Awesome link here saying BP admitted it did not have the tech to cap a deepwater spill, yet went ahead anyway. The article discusses how reliable BP's data is for peak oil.

Ghost of the peak oil theory - Views on News from Equitymaster
 

AnnaG

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Oil feeds the world. Other things help, but oil is the feedstock for everything produced on earth today.
Well, you eat the stuff if you like. We'll stick to the stuff that doesn't have any petroleum or petroleum products in it.

Awesome link here saying BP admitted it did not have the tech to cap a deepwater spill, yet went ahead anyway. The article discusses how reliable BP's data is for peak oil.

Ghost of the peak oil theory - Views on News from Equitymaster
Nice website. Lots of interesting stuff.
 

dumpthemonarchy

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AnnaG

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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/07/science/earth/07sands.html

Lawmakers Oppose Canadian Pipeline
By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL

Published: July 6, 2010


Facing a decision on a proposed pipeline to bring Canadian crude oil to the United States, the Obama administration is confronting growing resistance from politicians who oppose the project or, at the very least, urge further study before approval.
Good. The less the stuff travels around the less likely it will be to be making messes.
 

captain morgan

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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/07/science/earth/07sands.html

Lawmakers Oppose Canadian Pipeline
By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL

Published: July 6, 2010


Facing a decision on a proposed pipeline to bring Canadian crude oil to the United States, the Obama administration is confronting growing resistance from politicians who oppose the project or, at the very least, urge further study before approval.

Now that Obama has shot down offshore drilling in the Gulf, the US will be relying heavily on tar sands oil.

Those politicians that oppose the move will chirp long and loud until the cost of gas rises at which point they will be conspicuously quiet.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Can someone explain why BP's stocks are rising because of this disaster? Are people so stupid and selfish that they are jumping on the bandwagon to make profit from a situation that is causing so much harm. This really makes me sick. I learned about this from my brother who just dumped a bunch of money into BP today so he can profit from the misery of others. Man, that is enough to say Phuk Humanity!
 

petros

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Nov 21, 2008
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Now that Obama has shot down offshore drilling in the Gulf, the US will be relying heavily on tar sands oil.

Those politicians that oppose the move will chirp long and loud until the cost of gas rises at which point they will be conspicuously quiet.
3 million BBL a day of easy to refine Iraqi oil is going to hit the market very very soon leaving scars sands at minimum while you and I pay for green technologies to be installed.

What did you think was going to keep the gulf state refineries going? Bubble gum? With the end user being responsible for production and consumption gases the clean Iraqi oil is easy carbon reductions for the US and Canada. have you heard of the desire for a eastern Canadian port to import cheap Russian nat gas? They'll have us paying taxes for Russian gas too in no time.

I want one of these hard hats.

Do they wear these in the Iraqi oil fields too?
 

dumpthemonarchy

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Now that Obama has shot down offshore drilling in the Gulf, the US will be relying heavily on tar sands oil.

Those politicians that oppose the move will chirp long and loud until the cost of gas rises at which point they will be conspicuously quiet.

That is, if US pols keep being lackeys to big oil. They could emphasize better gas mileage vehicles for a start. Or ending the massive subsidies oil companies get that create cheap gasoline. Seems like doing nothing, but collecting a nice salary is the preferred strategy.

Deep sea oil can't last too long, it is too dangerous and tough to get. The danger and difficulty level is about at the same level as space exploration. Perhaps more as the pressure ten thousand feet down is absolutely crushing. We have ocean tourism on the surface, we don't even have space tourism yet. Yes, deep water oil is a short term solution. It is doomed.
 

captain morgan

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3 million BBL a day of easy to refine Iraqi oil is going to hit the market very very soon leaving scars sands at minimum while you and I pay for green technologies to be installed.


It's not like this is a new discovery, nor is it like this oil hasn't been on the market for the last few decades... It didn't solve the Americans energy needs back then so why would you believe that it will solve it now? Factor in the reality that big energy companies like Chevron are selling off some of their key reserves and facilities in the US (at a relatively low price I might add) and it becomes clear which way the industry believes the wind to be blowing.

That said, the best thing for Western Canadian conventional and oil sands petroleum will be for the U.S. feds to abandon oil sands energy... That in itself will speed-up the construction of the pipelines to the West coast to service the Asian markets.

There is no question that Obama is playing politics and will eventually realize that he is playing a (potentially) expensive game of chicken. Expect the Americans to suggest that Canadians come to the negotiating table to discuss energy policy.


the clean Iraqi oil is easy carbon reductions for the US and Canada.

Except for that pesky necessity to transport the crude across the globe on daily boat loads.


have you heard of the desire for a eastern Canadian port to import cheap Russian nat gas? They'll have us paying taxes for Russian gas too in no time.


That's the free market for ya. If you're not interested in buying Russian nat gas, then buy it from Bakken plays, Texas or Pennsylvania coal... There are plenty of alternatives.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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It's not like this is a new discovery, nor is it like this oil hasn't been on the market for the last few decades... It didn't solve the Americans energy needs back then so why would you believe that it will solve it now? Factor in the reality that big energy companies like Chevron are selling off some of their key reserves and facilities in the US (at a relatively low price I might add) and it becomes clear which way the industry believes the wind to be blowing.
It will be a good subsisted for the time being.
That said, the best thing for Western Canadian conventional and oil sands petroleum will be for the U.S. feds to abandon oil sands energy... That in itself will speed-up the construction of the pipelines to the West coast to service the Asian markets.
It is hard to find a CDN refinery that hasn't been, is being or will be doubled in size. Edmonton, Lloyd, Ft Crack and Regina all are seeing expansions. Regina is being doubled as we speak and plans are to double again in 2014 that is a gosh awful lot of heavy crude capable of hitting the market. The best is yet to come for the west but the BS of CO2 is going to kill it for the taxpayer unless we start some massive sequestring in our massive halide deposits creating new opportunites and plenty of labour.
There is no question that Obama is playing politics and will eventually realize that he is playing a (potentially) expensive game of chicken. Expect the Americans to suggest that Canadians come to the negotiating table to discuss energy policy.
NAFTA already has that in the bag. Anytime there is a crisis in the US and we up exports we are obligated to keep meeting that same level of exports.

Iraq, Katrina and Deep Horizon are the best things to ever happen to the CDN oil industry.



Except for that pesky necessity to transport the crude across the globe on daily boat loads.
Hyundai can build a ship a day and relies on the those tankers.


That's the free market for ya. If you're not interested in buying Russian nat gas, then buy it from Bakken plays, Texas or Pennsylvania coal... There are plenty of alternatives.
Personally I'd rather see the money spent on piplines to the east. Manufacturing has gone to **** so they may as well get into the refining game too.
 

Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
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Rebuilding totally destroyed wetlands has never been done successfully. All the land is strip mined to get at the bitumen. Dumping soil/sand/earth/muck back on top of mined out bitumen does not mean you will get the old wetlands back. They have damaged huge areas, they have restored very small areas.

They are spending more money, up from $15 million per year to $150 million, much thanks to the publicity from the dead ducks. There seems to be little headway regarding the toxic talings ponds.

Theres lots of headway,we just reclaimed one and are working on another,they are not allowed to build any new ones right now either so this crap about there being more ponds built then reclaimed is just that.,pure crap and propaganda.
I am right at the head of the Tailings reclamation operation and see it first hand and the company were doing the work for has committed 500 million to this project for just the next 2 years,not 15 million and the dead ducks had nothing to do with it,absolutely nothing.More birds are killed by hunters then tailings ponds,why no outcry about that?

Maybe some folks should focus on China where they have allmost zero laws on emmisions,reclamation or the environment.

At any rate,we should have this next big tailings pond reclaimed and trees growing with good habitat for the animals in one or two years max.
I expect to see this new technology for dealing with MFT widespread throughout all the oilsands in one year,it's allready happening but theres only so many people and so many plants and machines that can be built to handle this MFT(mature fine tailings).
Rome wasnt built in a day and these ouilsand operations are huge,the plants are as big as small city's.

3 million BBL a day of easy to refine Iraqi oil is going to hit the market very very soon leaving scars sands at minimum while you and I pay for green technologies to be installed.

What did you think was going to keep the gulf state refineries going? Bubble gum? With the end user being responsible for production and consumption gases the clean Iraqi oil is easy carbon reductions for the US and Canada. have you heard of the desire for a eastern Canadian port to import cheap Russian nat gas? They'll have us paying taxes for Russian gas too in no time.

I want one of these hard hats.


Do they wear these in the Iraqi oil fields too?


There not allowed at the oilsands but are worn on the pipeline and some rigs.

These oilsands are not going away,Frances Total just announced another huge project along with suncor and teck and theres many more coming onstream in the next few years,the province of Newfoundland should be devoid of people soon at this rate as they move into fort mc Newfy.
I was very happy the other day when we hired 3 guys from Revelstoke B.C.
Finally someone who speaks me language me by'e.
 

dumpthemonarchy

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Theres lots of headway,we just reclaimed one and are working on another,they are not allowed to build any new ones right now either so this crap about there being more ponds built then reclaimed is just that.,pure crap and propaganda.
I am right at the head of the Tailings reclamation operation and see it first hand and the company were doing the work for has committed 500 million to this project for just the next 2 years,not 15 million and the dead ducks had nothing to do with it,absolutely nothing.More birds are killed by hunters then tailings ponds,why no outcry about that?

Maybe some folks should focus on China where they have allmost zero laws on emmisions,reclamation or the environment.

At any rate,we should have this next big tailings pond reclaimed and trees growing with good habitat for the animals in one or two years max.
I expect to see this new technology for dealing with MFT widespread throughout all the oilsands in one year,it's allready happening but theres only so many people and so many plants and machines that can be built to handle this MFT(mature fine tailings).
Rome wasnt built in a day and these ouilsand operations are huge,the plants are as big as small city's.

There not allowed at the oilsands but are worn on the pipeline and some rigs.
These oilsands are not going away,Frances Total just announced another huge project along with suncor and teck and theres many more coming onstream in the next few years,the province of Newfoundland should be devoid of people soon at this rate as they move into fort mc Newfy.
I was very happy the other day when we hired 3 guys from Revelstoke B.C.
Finally someone who speaks me language me by'e.

So you say. Where are the news stories here, the links? Just more talk. A corporate hack at work.
 

GreenFish66

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Apr 16, 2008
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Dirty Filthy Oil and the future of green ..


Another Great thread Dumpthemonarchy - It is time Governments Stop funding The Big Energy Biz ."They" have enough $$ without needing ours.

It is time to invest in a Greener/Cleaner Energy Future.All energies competeing on 1 fair economic playing field...

Enviro-Green and Eco(nomic)- Green, all under 1 Green Umbrella....

Environment/Ecology in proper balance with Economics will move us forever positively forward into the future..

I believe most (including stubborn leaders) have begun to acknowledge the New Green/Clean Tech future is here now, and is necessary to ensuring our survival , as civilized inhabitants on this 1 of a kind Planet.

I believe most have seen the light and will agree the light is Green ..We must move and act now to protect our Civilized future and Respect Our Home planet.. We are all on 1

It is up to You and me , Us and Them to make sure We All , Great and small "Live long and Prosper"....;):)

Just a reminder, Liberal Red is NOT Green ...

Green/Clean Tech is Now .It is the future..
 
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