'Russia is fighting a war with us': Georgian president

lone wolf

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2lone wolf


Well, yes, yes, that's when Saakashvili will be tried before an international court, I look at you.

Canucklehead, fully agree with you.

And quite well Saakashvili SHOULD be tried - and executed if this evidence of genocide proves true. Believe it or not, Stradavar, western news DID carry stories of Georgian belligerence. Please don't look for people taking sides because when you do that, you begin to see all the wrong things.
 

Stradavar

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Aug 8, 2008
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You know, I know that is happening here than you. And you argue with me about it, even silly.

The British press knows that it happens here, French, German, but what you show on the news, it's easy laughter.
 

lone wolf

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You know, I know that is happening here than you. And you argue with me about it, even silly.

The British press knows that it happens here, French, German, but what you show on the news, it's easy laughter.

Complain to the people who write the news ... not the ones who read it. Which is more silly?
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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I don't know how this thread became such a cheering section for Russian aggression. If the South Ossetians really want to rejoin their Northern brethren, and join the Russian Republic, then let's have a UN supervised referendum on the issue. Let peacekeepers OTHER than Russians supervise it, have both sides agree to respect the results.

And nullify the Russian Passports that have been issued to the South Ossetians, and have them QUIT providing arms to separatist elements to destabilize the region. In fact have the Russians withdraw totally, ALONG with the Georgian Army. Allow repatriation of dislocated populations. Get troops from Norway or Brazil, countries with no stake in the outcome, supervise the peace until the will of the South Ossetians is clearly represented by a referendum, without intimidation by either side. If they choose separation from Georgia and union with North Ossetia within Russia, so be it.

I know that won't happen. Why? Because Putin has NO respect for democratic processes, PERIOD.. and he has no intention of Losing. He knows his military might will guarantee the outcome he wants. He is an old KGB operative to the core. And this will in no way be limited to Ossetia. It marks the blueprint for Russia's dealing with all the old republics of the Soviet Union.
 
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Stradavar

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Still, some here do not understand that South Ossetia did not wish to be part of Georgia, and do not want it for many years.
 

Stradavar

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And probably none of you so do not know that Abkhazia, now began to fight with Georgia.

Oh, and why not with Russia? m? Indeed, Russian is bad, bombing Georgia, ahahahahaha.
 

coldstream

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Background to the situation in Abkhazia, again this situation is thoroughly unclear. The constant in all this is Vladimir Putin, and his intention of control the region, by whatever measures it takes.

BUILD-UP TO CONFLICT:

* On coming to power in January 2004 after a bloodless revolution, pro-Western Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili vowed to make reuniting the country his top priority.

* On April 16, 2008, then Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered his government to intensify ties with Abkhazia and Ossetia, a second Georgian breakaway territory. Tbilisi said the move amounted to a "creeping annexation" of its land by Moscow.

* Russia can deploy up to 3,000 peacekeeping troops in Abkhazia under a 1994 ceasefire agreement. Tbilisi complains the Russian troops are effectively propping up the separatists. Moscow says they are all that is preventing more bloodshed.

* Early in May, Russia sent extra troops to counter what it said was a Georgian plan to attack Abkhazia, though Tbilisi denied any such intention. Observers say Russia's contingent remains within the 3,000 limit. They say Russia for the first time re-enforced its troops with tracked armoured personnel carriers equipped with cannon.

* A May 26 U.N. report said a Russian air force jet had shot down a Georgian unmanned spy plane over Abkhazia on April 20. Russia denied involvement, saying the Georgian plane was shot down by a separatist anti-aircraft missile. The separatists say they have shot down seven Georgian spy drones so far in 2008.

* Saakashvili proposed a peace deal under which South Ossetia and Abkhazia would be given "a large degree of autonomy" within a federal state. The separatists have said they will settle for nothing less than full independence.



THE PEOPLE:

* Abkhazia's separatist administration says the region's population is 340,000. Tbilisi says that is artificially inflated.

* The Abkhaz people are ethnically distinct from Georgians. They say they were forcibly absorbed into Georgia under Soviet rule and now want to exercise their right to self-determination.

* According to the International Crisis Group think tank, a Soviet census in 1989 showed ethnic Abkhaz accounted for 18 percent of the region's population, ethnic Georgians 45 percent and other groups, mostly Russians and Armenians, the rest.

* Starting in the late 1990s, some ethnic Georgians began returning to their homes in Abkhazia's Gali district, near the de facto border with Georgia. About 50,000 people have returned to the district.

* Separatist officials say over 80 percent of residents in Abkhazia have been issued with Russian passports. Russia's government pays pensions to Abkhaz retirees.
 

Stradavar

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F**k off with its Kosovo, Serbia etc., we are now talking about South Ossetia.

Unrecognized republic of South Ossetia. On paper it is part of Georgia, but actually is not subject to the Government of Georgia. South Ossetia wants to secede, but the Georgian Government will not allow this.(Again, if this is news to you.)


Well, so who would tell me why now is fighting Abkhazia with Georgia? m? Where your own knowledge, rather than stupid copy-past? Mr. same?
 

Zzarchov

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Aug 28, 2006
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F**k off with its Kosovo, Serbia etc., we are now talking about South Ossetia.

Unrecognized republic of South Ossetia. On paper it is part of Georgia, but actually is not subject to the Government of Georgia. South Ossetia wants to secede, but the Georgian Government will not allow this.(Again, if this is news to you.)


Well, so who would tell me why now is fighting Abkhazia with Georgia? m? Where your own knowledge, rather than stupid copy-past? Mr. same?


And Kosovo was an unrecognized republic, only on paper was it part of Serbia, but actually it was not subject to the Government of Serbia. Kosovo wanted to secede but the Serbian Government would not allow this,

Russia does not believe a region can secede from its mother country, that is why it backs Serbia, it cannot claim the rules apply to Serbia but not Georgia.

Russia just wants to annex the land.
 

gopher

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Well, Russia is also claiming Kosovo had no right to seperate

seems like they want it both ways.

They also claimed Chechnya had no right to separate. If you were on this forum a few years ago you might remember that several posters here felt Russia was in the right in that conflict.
 

Zzarchov

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They also claimed Chechnya had no right to separate. If you were on this forum a few years ago you might remember that several posters here felt Russia was in the right in that conflict.

Russia if not right, was consistent. If someone believes something wrong, it is inherintly easier to respect them then if they believe something convenient, with no consistency.
 

Praxius

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OMFG. 8O8O8O8O8O8O8O8O8O8O

All greetings, I am from Russia and specially registered here to tell you the whole truth. And that now is actually happening in South Ossetia.

I'm pretty sure I have a good understanding on what's going on there.... and I at present don't blame the Russians for their actions thus far.

Saakashvili is a second Hitler. He arranges the genocide in South Ossetia. Yes, you do not see what is happening there. Georgian troops attacked late at night to peaceful cities. Under the shelling hit ordinary residents of South Ossetia. Then the shelling ended, and began again at 2 pm on August 8. Died a lot of civilians at the hands of Georgia troops.

I too have heard this report.

Saakashvili bastard, Georgia troops kill children, old people, women in their own homes, they were not able to leave the conflict zone and shot in their own apartments !!!!!!!!! Yes, you do not know what is happening here!! Georgia attacked the South Ossetia interrupting peace treaty!

We do know what's going on... and I do also admit that most Western media is skewing the information towards a Georgian perspective since they're weaker in military strength..... but to me, that doesn't mean they have a green light to kill civilians.

On the territory of South Ossetia are Russian people, several dozens have died under fire from Georgian troops!!

And many are dying from Russian fire now.

In response to this, Russia agreed to protect the residents of South Ossetia troops entering 58 - oy Russian army in South Ossetia, because civilians are dying there! They hid in cellars, the whole city destroyed!!

Yup.

Heavy armour Georgia shelled Tskhinvali whole day (8 August), loss of life among civilians!! Destroyed homes, hospitals, schools, many wounded and dead!

F * CK and you think that Russia is the aggressor here.! Do not sneeze idiots, we are now viewed news and we showed Saakashvili as blatantly lying euros Union, the fact that Russia was attacked in goods, is delirium!!

Agreed. From what I have understood on the details, those proviences are seperatist and don't want to be under Georgian rule or government, and now they are coming into those proviences and using force..... many people living there are technically Russian citizens.... it is your country's right and duty to protect them, and thus.... I personally say you guys can bomb the sh*t out of Georgia all you wish.

The US isn't in any position to help, and Canada sure as hell ain't stepping foot in this mess, so as far as I'm concerned, you guys can sort it out.

ALL THAT IS COMPLETE LIE SAAKASHVILI !!!!!

This is genocide on the part of Georgia!

Do not believe the fact that you say in the news! You do not see what is happening here killed civilians South Ossetia, South Ossetia in Georgia attacked, headed by President Saakashvili this sick!

Look that NEWS, This video from South Ossetia: http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUdz36VSVCQ

We have plenty of media here that I have seen of civilians slumped in rubble and covered in blood. The only media which seems to be skewing the details are the US and the UN.... all because Georgia cried to the media first.

I say you guys should blow them back to the stone ages..... give em hell.
 

Praxius

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Georgia has aspirations of joining Nato, which would have made the Russsian incursion an Act of War on Nato.

No it doesn't.... they're not members. Saddam and Iraq might have wanted to join NATO too at one time...... should we all jump into Iraq now? Let them deal with their own crap for once.

Georgia is a central transit point and pipeline for the huge (20 billion barrels) Caspian Sea oil reserves and those of the southern Caucasus, on Russia's southern flank including Chechnya, which of course bring Islam into the equation. This could be very messy.

Politics and Pipelines

Your take on thing sounds highly biased, towards Russian interests, Stradavar. There has been no reports of genocide in Georgia by Saakashvili from any sources I trust. And i don't trust anything associated with the Russian intelligence services, who owe complete loyalty to Putin and his political faction. Are you sure you can trust your own sources. There has been an on going and violent separatist insurgency in Georgia, a sovereign country has the right to maintain order in within its borders.. and there is no doubt that South Ossetia is not within Russia's borders.

I believe the reports, because I've seen the footage. Since the majority of the civilians there have Russian passports and are technical citizens, they have the right to defend their citizens..... and I sure as hell am sure they wouldn't be bombing their own citizens, just to make an excuse to invade to protect them. South Ossetia is a seperatist provience.... they don't want anything to do with Georgia for their own reasons.... Georgia is now trying to take the provience back by force, and killing those who oppose their government..... AKA: Genocide.

And just because you don't like Putin, or Russia.... they are still also our ally, who have helped us plenty of times in the past..... what's with the USSR mentality towards them?
 

Praxius

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What Putin? In Russia already another president, and , you also do not know what else can I say here? You do not know that Putin is not now Russian President!!! (OMG LOL)

You do not see that happening HERE, YOU - do not see!

Georgian troops shot civilians in their homes!

You like a Americans, who only eat fastfood and nothing know what was happening in the world.

Hey now, Stradavar... not all of us are dumb....
 

Praxius

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I know [SIZE=-1]Russian President Dmitry Medvedev is a hand picked successor of Putin, which is why i was careful to note it was Putin and his political faction who were calling the shots.
[/SIZE]

No different from what Pakistan just went through with Mushhead.

No different from our own political parties picking and choosing who's going to lead their parties and who we can vote for..... take Dion's dumbass win.

No different from the US and their system of government..... I see no practical relation to what's going on between Russia and Georgia.

Whether you hate Russia or not, they're claiming Genocide..... one would think the rest of the world would err on the side of caution and thake this claim seriously.

[SIZE=-1]
I saw Putin at the Olympics Opening Ceremonies, taking the salute from the Russian athletes..talking with George Bush on the issue.. he sure seems to be letting everyone on the world stage know he is still in charge as Prime Minister. [/SIZE]

Who cares?
 

Praxius

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Forget about Putin's ok

okay, hang noodles on ears, all that.. but those are still Russian tanks on somebody else's soil.. uninivited and unprovoked. :roll:

That is seperatist land.

What would you think if Quebec decided by majority they no longer wanted to be a part of Canada and then Canada sent in our own tanks and forces to keep them a part of Canada?

Sh*t would hit the fan for Canada, that's what.... esspecially if Quebec tried to join back with France, and then France steps into Quebec and then we're in the same situation..... minus the genocide.
 

Praxius

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I know that if Quebec was in the grips of a violent insurgency, with the intent of unilaterally taking the province out of Canada, you would see Canadian Forces in there to quell the rebellion.

No they wouldn't, because I sure as hell would do my very best to keep my side of the country out of Quebec and their affairs.... If Canada tried to force Quebec to stay in Canada and remove their democratic right to choose, then you will see many other proviences pulling out of Canada as well..... as nobody that I know will want to jump into Quebec and force them at gun point to stay in Canada.

And Georgia has no right to do this either.

I do not see any difference with the South Ossetians. Let them use political and diplomatic channels to press their case, if they have a valid one, rather than the business end of a Kalashnikov. And those are Russian tanks on South Ossetian soil.. it if walks like a duck.. and quacks like a duck.. then it's probably a duck.. AND this looks like a Russian invasion of a foreign country..

On the lines of defending civilians from Genocide.... they're at least doing a hell of a lot more then what we do... which is wait a few months to determine if there is a good enough amount of civilians being killed, vote to determine if it's a genocide, then we bicker about who's going to go over and talk to the sides to see if they will stop their genocide.

Fok that, Russia is on the ball.... blow the hell out of them and keep them out of those seperatist proviences.

And a reminder... many hold Russian citizenship... they have the obligation to protect their citizens.

I'll tell you what all these Russian excuses for the incursion sound like. They sound like the Nazi's excuse of taking over the Sudetenland of Czechoslovakia to protect German citizens, or Poland to protect its own citizens and territory. It was all trumped up.. and we all know how it ended.

Yeah, and we should already be fully aware of what some US backed tyrants are capable of when they're feeding the needs of those in the White House.....

What do you propose be done? The US step in and start fighting the Russians? NATO Steps up and starts fighting Russia?

Yeah, good luck with that one.... the US is already having troubles trying to keep their numbers up in Iraq as well as Afghanistan..... NATO is already about to fall apart over the continual disputes over which countries are not sending troops into Afghanistan.....

.... just imagine how much more fun the US and NATO are going to be in if they try and get involved in this mess?
 

Praxius

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Canada is part of Nato, as is America. Canada has a large force in Afghanistan.. if it comes to all out war on the West, we'll be part of it, we always have been.. in WW1 and WW2 well before America got involved.

Yes, and Canada was never known to be a country to jump into a battle out of ignorance.... We have been know around the world as a country based on principles, not gaining territory or profits.

Afghanistan has been probably the most questionable role Canada has played military-related in it's history as a miltiary force. I see some justification for being in Afghanistan, but I also see other reasons why we should leave.

But I have seen countless examples of why we should not be a part of NATO, and I see plenty of reasons why NATO shouldn't get involved in this battle.

And to recap.... Georgia was requesting to be a part of NATO.... it isn't a NATO member..... and NATO rejected their request, claiming through various examples that they are not qualified, let alone ready to be a member of NATO..... perhaps this situation is one of the reasons why..... and if Genocide is occuring, then that pretty much settles it.

I know I'll be one pissed off citizen to hear NATO jumped into a battle on the side of the force commiting the suspected genocide.