Jordan: Explosions

[moghrabi]

Can someone tell me how this happened.

Israelis evacuated from Amman hotel hours before bombings
By Yoav Stern, Haaretz Correspondent

A number of Israelis staying on Wednesday at the Radisson hotel were evacuated before the bombing by Jordanian security forces, apparently due to a specific security alert. They were escorted back to Israel by security personnel.

The Foreign Ministry stated Wednesday that no Israeli tourists are known to have been injured in the blasts. Representatives of Israel's embassy in Amman were in contact with local authorities to examine any report of injured Israelis, but none were received. There are often a number of Israeli businessman and tourists in Amman, including in the hotels hit Wednesday.

Israel's counter-terror headquarters on Wednesday recommended Israeli citizens not travel in Jordan. Travel warnings regarding Jordan were tightened a few months ago, but many Israelis still visit the country. Many also visit other regions such as the Jordanian Arava and the ancient city of Petra.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/643661.html

Just amazing. Everyone write BBC , send them THIS LINK and tell them how nice Al Qaeda was to call ahead and warn the Israelis to leave the hotel ahead of the bombing.

 

[Shiva]

Why is it impossible that Al Qaeda doesn't have any leaks? Why is it impossible that Israel has no informers from Al Qaeda? The whole idea of spy services- and Israel has an excellent one- is to infiltrate the organisations of your enemies to get information on their activities.

You're trying to imply that Israel somehow set this up because Al Qaeda wouldn't tattle on itself to Israel. However you're overlooking the possibility that information was leaked, or they made some mistake which tipped off the Israelis, which is equally possible.

 

[moghrabi]

Why is it impossible that Al Qaeda doesn't have any leaks? Why is it impossible that Israel has no informers from Al Qaeda? The whole idea of spy services- and Israel has an excellent one- is to infiltrate the organisations of your enemies to get information on their activities.

You're trying to imply that Israel somehow set this up because Al Qaeda wouldn't tattle on itself to Israel. However you're overlooking the possibility that information was leaked, or they made some mistake which tipped off the Israelis, which is equally possible.

I think you are naive when it comes to Israel. They have a lot to gain from unstable Arab countries. They have the US go after Syria, Hezbollah and anyone who is not "with US".

It is just funny you say that they may had the information given to them. Why not share it with the Jordanian government so they can prevent such attacks. Or do they want it to happen regardless.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

It says that the interests of the attackers are advanced by attacking American targets

well, isn't that part of their point.?? But the message is deeper than that.

 

[moghrabi]

Another point.

you talk about Al-Qaeda. First I would like to see Bin laden arrested. or is the US to dump to capture a guy with a walking stick. If AL-Qaeda have informants to the Israelis why not tell them were Bin-laden is?

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Attacking unarmed people when you know you have the advantage and those you're attacking can't fight back is the definition of a coward, is it not?

one might say that.......particularly when Bombs come spraying down from the air at sections of a population......while the ones dropping said bombs remain safe (cowardly???) in their cockpits.


and no, that is NOT the definition of "coward"......and not sure how it even factors in all this.

 

[Shiva]

I think you are naive when it comes to Israel. They have a lot to gain from unstable Arab countries. They have the US go after Syria, Hezbollah and anyone who is not "with US".

It is just funny you say that they may had the information given to them. Why not share it with the Jordanian government so they can prevent such attacks. Or do they want it to happen regardless.

I think you're rather naive about media. You assume that just because it's been printed it's true. Who's to say the article is right? Who's to say it has all the facts? How do we know information hasn't been concealed for some purpose we are unaware of? Do you believe everything you read?

Has it occured to you that by notifying the Jordanians they would likely have to supply proof in order for their warning to be taken seriously, which may expose any source they have?

 

[Ocean Breeze]

think Americans have heard the message, and they're killing them wherever they can find them...and trying to destory their political support in the process.

nope.........americans have not heard the message at all. or they would not be just reacting to it with more bombs and killing.

In fact , seems that some outside of america fail to comprehend the dynamics of this mess. .......and choose to follow the bush method. .......which belongs in a former era.

 

[Shiva]

Attacking unarmed people when you know you have the advantage and those you're attacking can't fight back is the definition of a coward, is it not?

one might say that.......particularly when Bombs come spraying down from the air at sections of a population......while the ones dropping said bombs remain safe (cowardly???) in their cockpits.


and no, that is NOT the definition of "coward"......and not sure how it even factors in all this.

It only factors into all of this because moghrabi was trying to display these cowards as somehow brave and fearless. I was pointing out that if they were really fearless and brave, they'd attack targets that could fight back.

As to your comparison about dropping bombs on populations...well, unfortunately sometimes civilian populations are hit, but by and large civilians are not the target. The real targets are military bases and infrastructure that support the enemy gov't.

 

[moghrabi]

No I am not naive at all. I just know how the Israelis work and the article proves my point. They are either part of the game or they did not care about anybody other than their own people.

 

[Shiva]

think Americans have heard the message, and they're killing them wherever they can find them...and trying to destory their political support in the process.

nope.........americans have not heard the message at all. or they would not be just reacting to it with more bombs and killing.

In fact , seems that some outside of america fail to comprehend the dynamics of this mess. .......and choose to follow the bush method. .......which belongs in a former era.

Oh they did hear the message, they just reject it. Just because they didn't acquiesce and do what the terrorists want doesn't mean they didn't hear the message of the terrorists.

 

[Shiva]

Re: RE: Jordan: Explosions

No I am not naive at all. I just know how the Israelis work and the article proves my point. They are either part of the game or they did not care about anybody other than their own people.

It's the job of a government to care for it's own people.

 

[moghrabi]

Attacking unarmed people when you know you have the advantage and those you're attacking can't fight back is the definition of a coward, is it not?

one might say that.......particularly when Bombs come spraying down from the air at sections of a population......while the ones dropping said bombs remain safe (cowardly???) in their cockpits.


and no, that is NOT the definition of "coward"......and not sure how it even factors in all this.

It only factors into all of this because moghrabi was trying to display these cowards as somehow brave and fearless. I was pointing out that if they were really fearless and brave, they'd attack targets that could fight back.

As to your comparison about dropping bombs on populations...well, unfortunately sometimes civilian populations are hit, but by and large civilians are not the target. The real targets are military bases and infrastructure that support the enemy gov't.

Shiva.

Do not twist my words. I was not making heroes of these people. All I was saying is that they don't fit the definition of cowards.

 

[moghrabi]

Re: RE: Jordan: Explosions

No I am not naive at all. I just know how the Israelis work and the article proves my point. They are either part of the game or they did not care about anybody other than their own people.

It's the job of a government to care for it's own people.

It is also their job as part of the countries against the war on terror to share intelligence to save other people.

 

[moghrabi]

think Americans have heard the message, and they're killing them wherever they can find them...and trying to destory their political support in the process.

nope.........americans have not heard the message at all. or they would not be just reacting to it with more bombs and killing.

In fact , seems that some outside of america fail to comprehend the dynamics of this mess. .......and choose to follow the bush method. .......which belongs in a former era.

Oh they did hear the message, they just reject it. Just because they didn't acquiesce and do what the terrorists want doesn't mean they didn't hear the message of the terrorists.

If they heard the message then it makes sense to address their grievances. It is a non-sense not to negotiate with your enemy.

However, America is known to deny appeasing terrorists and then making backroom deals with them. I think the Americans will get the message soon when the whole world is against them which is not very far from today.

 

[Shiva]

Attacking unarmed people when you know you have the advantage and those you're attacking can't fight back is the definition of a coward, is it not?

one might say that.......particularly when Bombs come spraying down from the air at sections of a population......while the ones dropping said bombs remain safe (cowardly???) in their cockpits.


and no, that is NOT the definition of "coward"......and not sure how it even factors in all this.

It only factors into all of this because moghrabi was trying to display these cowards as somehow brave and fearless. I was pointing out that if they were really fearless and brave, they'd attack targets that could fight back.

As to your comparison about dropping bombs on populations...well, unfortunately sometimes civilian populations are hit, but by and large civilians are not the target. The real targets are military bases and infrastructure that support the enemy gov't.

Shiva.

Do not twist my words. I was not making heroes of these people. All I was saying is that they don't fit the definition of cowards.

You said,

As OB mentioned. These people are making a statement yet a destructive one. They are not cowards at all. I can't see how a suicide bomber be a coward if he is able to walk into a place strapped to the teeth with explosives and BOOOOOOOOOOOM.

So if you're not calling them cowards, then what do you think they are? The opposite of a coward is brave, nothing else. Or have you reconsidered and think they are indeed cowards?

 

[Ocean Breeze]

think Americans have heard the message, and they're killing them wherever they can find them...and trying to destory their political support in the process.

nope.........americans have not heard the message at all. or they would not be just reacting to it with more bombs and killing.

In fact , seems that some outside of america fail to comprehend the dynamics of this mess. .......and choose to follow the bush method. .......which belongs in a former era.

Oh they did hear the message, they just reject it. Just because they didn't acquiesce and do what the terrorists want doesn't mean they didn't hear the message of the terrorists.

so what message did they hear ??? and then reject??? and why??

( what the hell is this aquiesce to the terrorists thing , some neo cons have??? Don't they realize that by engaging with them militarily ........they not only aquiece but fullfill the terrorist ambitions for more and continued war??? but then just as the terrorists have their "holy war" agenda.........neo cons have their own war agenda......but it is based on different motives.)

 

[Shiva]

Re: RE: Jordan: Explosions

No I am not naive at all. I just know how the Israelis work and the article proves my point. They are either part of the game or they did not care about anybody other than their own people.

It's the job of a government to care for it's own people.

It is also their job as part of the countries against the war on terror to share intelligence to save other people.

Yes, but that all depends on the relationship that Israel and Jordan have worked out on intelligence. Israel could probably give the U.S., for example, an unspecified warning and the U.S. would likely take it seriously. Do we know for a fact that Jordan would do the same? Unless we do, we can't assume that Israel purposely withheld the information from Jordan to hurt them, because they could have withheld the information because they would have to be specific and reveal a source. Since it is possible that this is the case, to automatically assume some evil Israeli conspiracy is unfounded.

 

[moghrabi]

I did not change my mind. They are not cowards for 2 reasons:

1) anyone going to his death with a smile is not a coward. The cowards are sitting in their planes bombing away in the safety of their planes. Once they get down, you see shit dripping through their pants.

2) Not cowards because they are fighting for what they believe in. Freedom from the US interference with their government and daily lives. Stealing their wealth so Americans can live in comfortable way while they have to haul water to their bathrooms.

 

[Shiva]

so what message did they hear ??? and then reject??? and why??

( what the hell is this aquiesce to the terrorists thing , some neo cons have??? Don't they realize that by engaging with them militarily ........they not only aquiece but fullfill the terrorist ambitions for more and continued war??? but then just as the terrorists have their "holy war" agenda.........neo cons have their own war agenda......but it is based on different motives.)

I love how you've assumed that I'm some sort of neocon just because I disagree with you. I'm a small 'l' liberal (which means, no affiliation with the Liberal Party). I'm centre of the road, with some left leanings on social policy.

This 'aquiesce to the terrorists' thing can be explained thus- if someone uses violence against you, and you give them what they want, then they will use violence again and again to achieve their goals. You display that you're afraid of them, weak, and unwilling to defend yourself. That will embolden the group using violence to use more violence and push for more because they know you can be pushed around. That's why governments don't negotiate with terrorists. Hell, that's why Trudeau didn't negotiate with the FLQ!