Israel...

gopher

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Jun 26, 2005
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Minnesota: Gopher State
"Who needs to win? Our friends, our allies, the democratic, free nation, the leader of the western world........or lunatic, genocidal Islamist terrorists......
Think about that for a minute."


Who? Lunatic Bush who lied and killed over 1 million Iraqis after declaring his evil intentions in the Downing Street memo?
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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It is a war, Mikey.

Pick a side.

I pick the side of the civilians caught in the crossfire.

And yes I am aware the US significantly increased their economic and military support of Fatah after Hamas won the election.

eao: Why didn't we complain when the US and Israel armed opposition forces in a blatant attempt to overthrow Palestine's democratically elected government?
Hamas didn't start the violence which led to their military take over of Gaza. Violence erupted when anti-democratic forces backed by Israel and the US attempted to overthrow the democratically elected Palestinian government. In the end the side with the support of the majority of people (Hamas) won in Gaza but lost in the West Bank.

Colpy: Do you REALLY believe that? If so, you're simply hopeless.

How come your memory is so short Colpy? That was barely two years ago and you've forgotten already.


26 January 2006

Hamas sweeps to election victory

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4650788.stm

Hamas seizes U.S. weapons
Terrorist: We'll hijack all American weapons provided to Abbas' militias

May 14, 2007

TEL AVIV -- Hamas yesterday ambushed a convoy in the Gaza Strip and seized a stockpile of U.S. weapons transferred in recent months to militias associated with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party, according to Hamas and Fatah sources.

"We obtained the U.S. weapons and will keep hijacking any assistance the Americans provide to Fatah. Our fighters are aware of the American and Israeli conspiracies to topple our government. We're trained and well prepared to defeat the American-backed (Palestinian) agents," said a top member of Hamas' so-called military wing in the Gaza Strip.

According to Israeli and Palestinian security officials and Hamas sources, Hamas militias in recent months have taken almost complete control of the northern Gaza Strip, including areas from which rockets are launched regularly into nearby Jewish communities. The officials said Fatah, which is backed by the U.S., is restricted to acting within a half-mile radius of a major Fatah military compound. Hamas has set up roadblocks and checkpoints throughout northern Gaza to ensure Fatah militias remain near their compound.

Yesterday, after a Fatah gunman shot a Hamas member, a Fatah convoy of three trucks was stopped by Hamas at a makeshift checkpoint at Dabit Circle, a northern Gaza town, according to Hamas sources. Hamas abducted 18 Fatah gunmen and seized stockpiles of American weapons that were in the vans, the sources said.

The U.S. in recent months reportedly transferred large quantities of weapons to Fatah, purportedly to back Abbas' military organizations against Hamas. Fatah and Hamas engaged in months of factional clashes until the two forged a unity government in February. But renewed fighting today in Gaza threatened to torpedo the unity deal.

The last confirmed U.S. weapons transfer to the Palestinians took place last May and consisted of 3,000 assault rifles, but WND reported multiple other transfers later were delivered to Fatah, including a cache of 7,000 rifles last January and about 8,000 assault rifles in February.

While the weapons were meant to bolster Fatah in Gaza, Hamas has reportedly won most battles against the U.S.-backed militias...

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55682


07/01/2007

Three Hamas militants killed in clashes with Fatah in Gaza Strip

By Avi Issacharoff, Haaretz Correspondent, and News Agencies

Three Hamas militants were killed and five were wounded Saturday evening in clashes with a Fatah-related family hours after Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas declared Hamas security forces in Gaza illegal.

The militants, all members of the the Diri family, were killed in an exchange of fire between Hamas and members of the Durmush family, some of whom are affiliated with Fatah, in the Sabra neighborhood of Gaza City.

Four Hamas militants were kidnapped during the incident.

Another member of Hamas was kidnapped in a separate incident in the Gaza Strip. No further details were available. Earlier, two Hamas officials were kidnapped in separate incidents in the West Bank.

In Nablus, an An- Najah National University lecturer affiliated with Hamas was wounded by six militants apparently belonging to Fatah's Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades.

The lecturer, Marwan Kadoumi, was shot in his legs when the militants entered his home. He was evacuated to the hospital in moderate condition.

Earlier Saturday, pro-Fatah gunmen attacked Hamas officials in two separate incidents in the West Bank, security officials said...

...Fighting between Abbas's Fatah faction and Hamas has surged since talks on forming a unity government collapsed and Abbas called for early parliamentary and presidential elections. Hamas accused Abbas of mounting a coup...

Abbas says Hamas security force in Gaza is illegal
In a statement released on Saturday, Abbas declared that Hamas security forces in Gaza not integrated with PA forces would now be considered illegal....

Hamas: U.S. is funding a 'revolt' against our government

Senior Hamas official Mushir al-Masri blamed the U.S. on Friday for attempting to promote a revolt against the Hamas government, after U.S. documents showed that the Bush administration will provide $86.4 million to strengthen security forces loyal to Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas.

"We demand that Abbas reject this U.S. policy, which is tearing the Palestinian people apart," he said.

The new policy would expand U.S. involvement in Abbas' power struggle with Hamas....

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/809845.html

So yes, Colpy I believe the US did try to overthrow democraticaly elected Hamas by arming Fatah. How do you interpret the above?
 

einmensch

Electoral Member
Mar 1, 2008
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After reading many posts and comments, MikeyDB consistantly demonstrates his superior mental and verbal abillities.He does not need to demonstrate a notion of self- superiority by informing others that he is well educated knowing all or stammer "That this is the silliest post I have ever read".
COLPY- You referred to me as a JEW Hater. Go get your proof and post it. OR, is slander also part of your intelligent debating?
Does the below make me a Jew Hater?

ALL holocausts can be scrutinised, investigated, researched and questioned. Whether it is the 15 million German Holocaust victims or the 54 million Russian Holocaust victims in the ex-Soviet-Union, ordered by mostly Jewish commissioners. Regardless which Holocaust we want to study, the Armenian-Holocaust, the Cossack-Holocaust, the Negro-Holocaust caused by Jewish slave traders, the Cambodian-Holocaust, the Chinese-Holocaust, all Holocausts can be questioned – except the Jewish-holocaust.
No investigations or scientific researches are allowed! The "Central Council of Jews in Germany" screams immediately, to bring holocaust-heretics "to justice", if anyone dares to question certain holocaust stories. The German judicial system goes into action at once to perform orgies of the most vile persecutions. Looking at all these un-atoned Holocausts that have taken place in our lifetimes history, Horst Mahler, a lawyer and former RAF (Red Army Faction) sympathiser stated: "The holocaust is neither incomprehensible nor unique." The "Council of Jews in Germany" reacted immediately, telling the German justice system: "Denying the singularity of the shoa is historically wrong and conceivably punishable by law." [15]
Israel is 60? I thought it went back to the Days of Moses?

 

dancing-loon

House Member
Oct 8, 2007
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60 years ago today Israel became a state. That's what I heard in the news. Amid the celebrations looms the Olmert bribery scandal. Al Jazera has inside knowledge he might step down and will likely be replaced by Zivi Livni.~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Looks like they need a major clean-up! But what is the use?
Some update!!
Police seize more Olmert papers


Mr Olmert denies the accusations that he accepted bribes

Israeli police have raided the Ministry of Industry and Trade as a corruption investigation into Prime Minister Ehud Olmert continues, official radio says.
The raid follows one on Jerusalem's city hall on Monday.
He is suspected of accepting bribes from a American Jewish businessman during his time as Jerusalem mayor and later as a minister.
Haha... he and Mulrooney should go to bed together!!!:lol: They've got a lot in common.
Mr Olmert is already being investigated in several other corruption scandals.
Police questioned Mr Talansky on Monday and have asked him to remain in Israel until later in the month.
Morris "Moshe" Talansky - a New York-based financier - is said to have given hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash to Mr Olmert at a series of meetings in the 1990s and early 2000s.
Read full article here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7397066.stm
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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After reading many posts and comments, MikeyDB consistantly demonstrates his superior mental and verbal abillities.He does not need to demonstrate a notion of self- superiority by informing others that he is well educated knowing all or stammer "That this is the silliest post I have ever read".
COLPY- You referred to me as a JEW Hater. Go get your proof and post it. OR, is slander also part of your intelligent debating?
Does the below make me a Jew Hater?

ALL holocausts can be scrutinised, investigated, researched and questioned. Whether it is the 15 million German Holocaust victims or the 54 million Russian Holocaust victims in the ex-Soviet-Union, ordered by mostly Jewish commissioners. Regardless which Holocaust we want to study, the Armenian-Holocaust, the Cossack-Holocaust, the Negro-Holocaust caused by Jewish slave traders, the Cambodian-Holocaust, the Chinese-Holocaust, all Holocausts can be questioned – except the Jewish-holocaust.
No investigations or scientific researches are allowed! The "Central Council of Jews in Germany" screams immediately, to bring holocaust-heretics "to justice", if anyone dares to question certain holocaust stories. The German judicial system goes into action at once to perform orgies of the most vile persecutions. Looking at all these un-atoned Holocausts that have taken place in our lifetimes history, Horst Mahler, a lawyer and former RAF (Red Army Faction) sympathiser stated: "The holocaust is neither incomprehensible nor unique." The "Council of Jews in Germany" reacted immediately, telling the German justice system: "Denying the singularity of the shoa is historically wrong and conceivably punishable by law." [15]
Israel is 60? I thought it went back to the Days of Moses?


You are a Jew hater.

If that shocks you, you need to take a long look in the mirror.

First, you deny the most horrible genocide in history was all that bad, and you cling to ridiculous web sites and silliness to support your claim, such as a sign outside Auschwitz.....I roll my eyes.

Then you quote things such as the above piece of drivel.....which blames Jews for "the 54 million Russianm Holocaust", the "negro Holocaust" (the slave trade)....the might as well cry out "the damned Jews deserved it!"

Spare me your bull****.

I only talked about my education when challenged about my knowledge......and yes, it is significant that I actually studied history........

instead of trying to pervert it.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Ein...

Jews may have been involved in some of these atrocities, but so were Christians, Muslims and others. Most of the slave trade in Africa was conducted by black African slave traders. Stalin was mostly responsible for the purges in the USSR. Various generals and dictators were responsible for most of the rest. I see no evidence of a Jewish conspiracy(or any other religion). Those atrocities were committed by people not religions.

I agree with your point that people should be able to challenge the "accepted facts" in all of these events including the Jewish holocaust. I disagree with people being imprisoned for denying the holocaust happened. All ideas or "accepted facts" should be debatable... within limits. But you can't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theatre or crack jokes about having a bomb in your suitcase as you board a plane. Free Speech has limits even in a tolerant society like Canada. As long as you don't advocate harming people, I support your right to free speech. If you think the Holocaust didn't happen, then I support your right to argue that point.

If you think Jews or any other group of people should be rounded up and abused in some way, then you cross a line in my mind.

I support the right of Canadians to freely choose their religion including Judaism. I don't blame Christians for the crusades or the inquistion. I don't believe there is a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world. Sure Jews cooperate with one another and develop trust relationships based on their shared values. But that's not a conspiracy. Many groups of people have similar preferential relationships with each other based on common values. For example the "Loyal Order of the Moose". Do you think the Moose Lodge is also a conspiracy:
http://www.mooseintl.org/public/who.asp

Yet members of Loyal Order of the Moose have preferential treatment for fellow members. So do ToastMasters, Boy Scouts, Free Masons, Kiwanis, Knights of Colombus... That's not a conspiracy.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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You are a Jew hater.

If that shocks you, you need to take a long look in the mirror.

First, you deny the most horrible genocide in history was all that bad, and you cling to ridiculous web sites and silliness to support your claim, such as a sign outside Auschwitz.....I roll my eyes.

Then you quote things such as the above piece of drivel.....which blames Jews for "the 54 million Russianm Holocaust", the "negro Holocaust" (the slave trade)....the might as well cry out "the damned Jews deserved it!"

Spare me your bull****.

I only talked about my education when challenged about my knowledge......and yes, it is significant that I actually studied history........

instead of trying to pervert it.

C, I believe the Holocaust happened too. But I must admit having a hard time proving that precisely 6 million Jews died during this atrocity. Most links I find which reference this number don't back it up with proof or a link to proof. Try researching this for yourself and if you find something concrete please post it.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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In the bush near Sudbury
....instead of trying to pervert it.

My daddy told me not to step in that because to ignore all but your own stories is when it hits the pasture in its slipperiest form.

The Holocaust happened. So does the grudge that diminishes its worth. When God-knows-how-much effort and expense is spent for second and third-generation "victims" to persecute an ancient man who, in every likelyhood, chose to stay alive, never again wears to an ugly Not To Us.
 
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Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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Gotta love Mark Steyn

from his piece
Israel’s ‘doom’ could also be Europe’s


By most measures, the Jewish state is a great success story. The modern Middle East is the misbegotten progeny of the British and French colonial map makers of 1922. All the nation states in that neck of the woods date back a mere 60 or 70 years – Iraq to the Thirties, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Israel to the Forties. The only difference is that Israel has made a go of it.
Would I rather there were more countries like Israel, or more like Syria? Israel is the only liberal democracy in the Middle East (Iraq may yet prove a second), and its Arab citizens enjoy more rights than they would living under any of the kleptocrat kings and psychotic dictators who otherwise infest the region.
On a tiny strip of land narrower at its narrowest point than many American townships, Israel has built a modern economy with a GDP per capita just shy of $30,000 – and within striking distance of the European Union average. If you object that that’s because it’s uniquely blessed by Uncle Sam, well, for the past 30 years the second-largest recipient of U.S. aid has been Egypt: their GDP per capita is $5,000, and America has nothing to show for its investment other than one-time pilot Mohamed Atta coming at you through the office window.

http://attackmachine.com/blog/2008/05/11/israels-doom-could-also-be-europes/

scroll down some to find it. Very good piece.
 

MHz

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Mar 16, 2007
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That $30,000 must mean somebody is making a fairly high wage if this fact is accurate.
Population below poverty line:
21.6%
note: Israel's poverty line is $7.30 per person per day (2005)

That is only about $2,665/yr.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/is.html#People

If that link works (the icon that looks like a chart)21% is the same as some countries that we consider as not doing all that well.
 

einmensch

Electoral Member
Mar 1, 2008
937
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Colpy --I greatly admire your justification for calling me a Jew Hater. It certainly evidences your great knowledge of History as presented by Zionists. Don't think, just rely on your education. Fortunately the majority of Jews think more than you and the vast majority are human, kind hard working people.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Colpy --I greatly admire your justification for calling me a Jew Hater. It certainly evidences your great knowledge of History as presented by Zionists. Don't think, just rely on your education. Fortunately the majority of Jews think more than you and the vast majority are human, kind hard working people.

Determined Holocaust denial in the fact of historical evidence indicates a bit of a problem with Jews......
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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Rabid support for a screwed up allegiance of the wealthy and powerful against the victims of a decision made by an organization that you now repeatedly characterize as uselessly flawed and unimportant indicates a possible break with reality.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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Determined Holocaust denial in the fact of historical evidence indicates a bit of a problem with Jews......

Have you ever stopped the steamroller long enough to consider that it also indicates someone doesn't believe the myth the grudge has become? It happened. Get over it. Today is a new day. Interpreting that someone has grown tired of same ol' same ol' as: "You have a problem with Jews." is about the little minded drivel I have come to expect from all things Israel in the world according to that steamroller.
 
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CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Colpy, are you on record as officially supporting Israel as described in this video?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...&q=the+other+israel&ei=E1YwSMT0CoPoqgOppJW1CQ



That piece-o-shyte lost all crediblity as soon as Ted Pike said, and I quote here...

"Before Zionist settlers came here, around the turn of the century. This region was not particularly known for strife"

Ya OK, great grasp of historic accuracy.

I'm not surprised you find this piece both informative and useful MHz. Much like most of you, it lacks both accuracy and any form truth.

Carry on...with the brain , as it were.
 

MHz

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"Before Zionist settlers came here, around the turn of the century. This region was not particularly known for strife"

Ya OK, great grasp of historic accuracy.

I'm not surprised you find this piece both informative and useful MHz. Much like most of you, it lacks both accuracy and any form truth.

Thanks for the link that disputes that statement.

Sounds like a real hell-hole, not.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/439645/Palestine/45060/From-the-Arab-conquest-to-1900
"History » From the Arab conquest to 1900 » Ottoman ruleAfter 1840 the reforms the sultan promulgated gradually took effect in Palestine. Increased security in the countryside and the Ottoman Land Law of 1858 encouraged the development of private property, agricultural production for the world market, the decline of tribal social organization, growth of the population, and the enrichment of the notable families. As the Ottomans extended the central government’s new military, municipal, judicial, and educational systems to Palestine, the country also witnessed a marked increase in foreign settlements and colonies—French, Russian, and German. By far the most important, in spite of their initial numerical insignificance, were the Jewish agricultural settlements, which foreshadowed later Zionist endeavours to establish a Jewish national home and still later a Jewish state (Israel) in Palestine. The earliest of these settlements was founded by Russian Jews in 1882. In 1896 Theodor Herzl issued a pamphlet entitled Der Judenstaat (The Jewish State) and advocated an autonomous Jewish state, preferably in Palestine. Two years later he himself went to Palestine to investigate its possibilities and, possibly, to seek the help of the German emperor William II, who was then making a spectacular pilgrimage to the Holy Land."
Educate yourself by reading about events past that little quote above.

Edit to add, this is when things started to change.
http://www.palestinehistory.com/history/phototime/tl_1900_1.htm
"In 1896 following the appearance of anti-Semitism in Europe, Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism tried to find a political solution for the problem in his book, 'The Jewish State'. He advocated the creation of a Jewish state in Argentina or Palestine.

In 1897 the first Zionist Congress was held in Switzerland, which issued the Basle programme on the colonization of Palestine and the establishment of the World Zionist Organization (WZO).

In 1904 the Fourth Zionist Congress decided to establish a national home for Jews in Argentina.

In 1906 the Zionist congress decided the Jewish homeland should be Palestine.

In 1914 With the outbreak of World War I, Britain promised the independence of Arab lands under Ottoman rule, including Palestine, in return for Arab support against Turkey which had entered the war on the side of Germany."

Add these types of incidents and your view of Israel goes up in smoke.
"Following an argument which broke out between Palestinian workers and Jewish workers in the Haifa Petroleum Refinery, leading to the deaths of a number of Palestinians and wounding and killing approximately sixty Jews. The Zionest ganges planned to take revenge on behalf of fellow Jews who had been killed by attacking Baldat al-Shaikh and Hawasa where most of the workers live.

On the night of January 30-31, 1947, a mixed force composed of the First Battalion of Palmakh and the Carmelie brigade (estimated at approximately 150 to 200 terrorists) launched a raid against the two towns under the leadership of Hayim Afinuam. Taking the homes by surprise as their inhabitants slept, they pelted them with hand grenades, then went inside, firing their machine guns. The terrorist attack led to the deaths of approximately sixty citizens inside their homes, most of them women, elderly and children.

The attack lasted for an hour, after which the Zionists withdrew at 2:00 A.M. after attacking a large number of homes.

According to a report written by the leader of the terrorist operation, " the attacking units slipped into the town and began working on the houses. And due to the fact that gunfire was directed inside the rooms, it was not possible to avoid injuring women and children. " "

"On the night of April 9, 1948, the Irgun Zvei Leumi surrounded the village of Deir Yasin, located on the outskirts of Jerusalem. After giving the sleeping residents a 15 minute warning to evacuated, Menachem Begin's terrorists attacked the village of 700 people, killing 254 mostly old men, women and children and wounding 300 others. Begin's terrorists tossed many of the bodies in the village well, and paraded 150 captured women and children through the Jewish sectors of Jerusalem.

The Haganah and the Jewish Agency, which publicly denounced the atrocity after the details had become public several days later, did all they could to prevent the Red Cross from investigating the attack. It wasn't until three days after the attack that the Zionist armies permitted Jacques de Reynier, chief representative of the International Committee of the Red Cross in Jerusalem, to visit the village by the surrounding Zionist armies.

Ironically, the Deir Yasin villagers had signed a non aggression pact with the leaders of the adjacent Jewish Quarter, Giv'at Shaul and had even refused military personnel from the Arab Liberation Army from using the village as a base."
 
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CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Thanks for the link that disputes that statement.

Sounds like a real hell-hole, not.

Educate yourself by reading about events past that little quote above.
Man you give this smilie a workout.

From your own paragraph (Thanx btw)
From the Arab conquest to 1900
Nope, very little strife involved 'conquest'. Educate yourself sunshine. Here try this book

Before Palestine became a hot button issue for the uneducated, it was a malaise of swamp and ruin, of which Jewish Palestinians(Yep, I said Jewish Palestinians, cause that's what they were, being a location, not an indigenous people, of which you can thank the Ottoman Empire you just highlighted.)

This attracted Arab immigration as well, from all over the Arab world, due largely to the unrest, the 'strife' and the imposition of the Ottoman's.

But hey, don't let education get in the way of historic fact.

btw...I've supplied all the links I'm ever going to. If you doubt the accuracy of my commentary, please feel free to follow my profile to my threads and my pasts posts. There you will find a myriad of links to national archives, NGO's and unbiased collections of historic documentation.