Israel...

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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That is just silly!

Did you miss the part that said suicide bombings had dropped from 59 in a year to ONE in a year?

Israel has the right to defend itself...

But Palestinians don't have that same right? Please explain why...

The drop in suicide bombings could also be partly explained by a switch in tactics.

25 April 2008
Israel claims Hamas is a 20,000-strong force

The Palestinian Islamic Resistance in Gaza (Hamas) has built up a military force of 20,000 combatants equipped with standard rockets, mortars, anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) and anti-aircraft guns, according to an Israeli study.

According to a study published by the Israeli Intelligence and Terrorism Information Centre, Hamas has been able to smuggle more than 80 tonnes of explosives into the Gaza Strip, despite the international blockade.

A powerful demonstration of the organisations improved military capabilities was given on 19 April when Hamas launched its most sophisticated attack so far on the Kerem-Shalom border crossing with Israel. With the apparent aim of killing and abducting Israeli troops, Hamas sent two M-240 Storm car bombs, each carrying about 300 kg of explosives, which were disguised as Israel Defence Force (IDF) vehicles. Those were accompanied by two BRDM-2 armoured personnel carriers (APCs) that were supposed to carry the kidnapped troops or bodies into Gaza.

IDF units, which were placed on high alert on the eve of Passover but did not have a specific warning of the attack, managed to thwart it, sustaining 13 injured servicemen.

A Merkava Mk 4 main battle tank destroyed one of the Palestinian APCs and the other was captured after its crew was killed. During the clash, Hamas attacked IDF positions in the area with mortar rounds.

http://www.janes.com/news/security/capabilities/jdw/jdw080425_1_n.shtml

Perhaps Hamas and others have moved on to other tactics, now that they are better armed. Time probably is on their side:

...Even if there had been a US military option against Hezbollah, the war in Iraq has effectively eliminated it. American military strength has been exhausted in Iraq and Afghanistan and it has inadequate force to devote to a particularly dangerous third front. This is perhaps the greatest damage done by the Bush adventure in Iraq, where after five years there is no end in sight. The United States may be in Iraq for years to come with Israel ending up a victim of the Iraq adventure it instigated.

Doubts about Israel’s future

CIA and Israeli demographers such as Sergio Della-Pergola estimate that in the next 10 years Jews will be less that 45% of the population in Palestine i.e. between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River. This sets up the South African Apartheid model of a minority occupying population ruling the indigenous majority....

http://atlanticfreepress.com/content/view/3786/81/

I doubt Hamas wants the arms smuggling to stop:

IDF: Hamas now in full control of Gaza arms smuggling

By Amos Harel and Avi Issacharoff, Haaretz Correspondents
08/10/2007

Hamas now has complete control over the smuggling routes from Egypt, having forced the clans that previously controlled these routes to take orders from it, say senior officers in the Israel Defense Forces.

The officers said there has been a sharp increase in the quantity of explosives, including various types of rockets, smuggled into the Gaza Strip from Egypt over the last few weeks.

They added that the arms smuggling has expanded markedly since Hamas seized control of the enclave this summer and ousted forces from the rival Fatah party that had previously been stationed along the Gaza-Egypt border.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/910303.html

A temporay truce is also possible, if Israel accepts it:

Updated May 2, 2008 0:44
Official: Truce to be boost for Schalit release

Israel's expected acceptance of a Cairo-brokered cease-fire with Hamas in the Gaza Strip will "significantly" expedite the release of kidnapped Cpl. Gilad Schalit, a top official involved in the negotiations told The Jerusalem Post on Wednesday.

According to the official, while Schalit's release was being negotiated on a second, parallel track to the cease-fire talks, Israel's agreement to a truce in Gaza would "open doors" with Hamas and have an impact on the talks concerning a prisoner swap in exchange for the soldier abducted in June 2006.

The Post has also learned that a clause in the Egyptian-brokered cease-fire, which has already been accepted by Hamas, is the reopening of the Rafah crossing between Gaza and Sinai according to the terms of the 2005 agreement reached by US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. Hamas, according to the deal, would not be allowed to maintain a presence at the crossing...

...Bush is expected to arrive on May 13, and after taking part in Independence Day ceremonies here and then go on to Saudi Arabia to mark 75 years of US-Saudi ties. From there he is scheduled to go to Egypt. Cairo, according to diplomatic officials in Jerusalem, was certainly eager to broker the cease-fire deal with Hamas before Bush visited, to win US favor.

But while Bush will likely praise Egypt for its role, Public Security Minister Avi Dichter on Wednesday criticized Egypt for its handling of the situation in the Gaza Strip.

"A problematic terror state has risen that is built on the Hizbullah model," Dichter said during a security cabinet meeting. "There is ongoing weapons smuggling of worrying quantity and quality from Egypt, and this terror state is getting legitimacy from Egypt and maybe even more than that." ....


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1208870534866&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

But I doubt Hamas's longterm plans to resist Israel by force have ended. More likely they will keep stockpiling and training...
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Exactly.

I do not argue that Jewish influence far outpaces their numbers........only 13 million Jews on earth.

and yes, in Europe before the Holocaust, Jews were by far disproportionally represented in the intellectual class, professors, teachers doctors, and as entrepreneurs.

It is, as your source says , a survival strategy among the most persecuted people on the face of the earth........

So what?

Are we envious of their ability to focus on education? On achievement?

What is the point?

if jews have influence, they EARNED it!

Jews have earned their influence in Canada. Canada is a better place overall because of Jewish Canadians. Jewish communities have built schools and hospitals and their charity extends beyond their own community. Their contributions encompass many different fields from Engineering and Science to Entertainment and Media. I don't think Canadians should be envious of Jews. They are fellow Canadians. We should take pride in their accomplishments be grateful for their contributions.

As the fighting gets more serious in Israel, Canada should open its doors fully to Israeli immigration.

While anti-semitism does exist in Canada an it is a problem, Jews and any identifiable groups like them are protected by law from persecution. Since 9/11, I'd say Muslims and Arabs are more persecuted than Jews in Canada. So are First Nations people, as Amnesty International reminds the world annually.
 

dancing-loon

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Oct 8, 2007
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Ever notice how often in the last 60 years that the 'defending' was actually taking place outside their own borders. It is not as serene over there as the article would have the reader believe.

Casualties

The Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs for the occupied Palestinian territory (OCHoPT) was established in late 2000 by the United Nations as a response to the deteriorating humanitarian situation in the West Bank and Gaza caused by military incursions and closures[110] (See also: Second Intifada). The office monitors the conflict and presents figures relating to both internal-violence and direct conflict clashes.
Casualty figures for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict from the OCHAoPt[111]
(numbers in brackets represent casualties under the age of 18) Year Deaths Injuries Palestinians Israelis Palestinians Israelis 2005 216 (52) 48 (6) 1260 (129) 484 (4) 2006 678 (127) 25 (2) 3194 (470) 377 (7) 2007 396 (43) 13 (0) 1843 (265) 322 (3) Total 1290 (222) 86 (8) 6297 (864) 1183 (14) All numbers refer to casualties of direct conflict between Israelis and Palestinians including in IDF military operations, artillery shelling, search and arrest campaigns, Barrier demonstrations, targeted killings, settler violence etc. The figures do not include events indirectly related to the conflict such as casualties from unexploded ordnance, etc. or events when the circumstances remain unclear or are in dispute. The figures include all reported casualties of all ages and both genders.[111]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-Palestinian_conflict#Casualties
Thank you, MHz,
for this detailed link. I really, really feel sorry for the Palestinians. How can they manage their daily lives? Think of the little children who have to witness and even suffer through these crimes! But worst yet... how can the world stand by and let these crimes against a devastated humanity happen?
Imagine, if this happened to the Americans or the Israelis themselves!!! !@#$%^&*()_+_)(*&^%$#@!!@#$%^&*&^%$()_+@!#$%
 

dancing-loon

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Oct 8, 2007
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60 years ago today Israel became a state. That's what I heard in the news. Amid the celebrations looms the Olmert bribery scandal. Al Jazera has inside knowledge he might step down and will likely be replaced by Zivi Livni.
Olmert tied to New York developer in scandal Police have imposed a strict gag order that forbids publication of information about the case in Israel.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/05/07/africa/07olmert.php
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Looks like they need a major clean-up! But what is the use?
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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I've seen Livni talk. She is charismatic and tough. I doubt Israel would become a kinder gentler nation under Livni's leadership.
 

dancing-loon

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Oct 8, 2007
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I've seen Livni talk. She is charismatic and tough. I doubt Israel would become a kinder gentler nation under Livni's leadership.
I think this kind of Jew should take the leadership in hand....

love your enemy! The world would instantly become a better place!
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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You know, that guy hugging that vicious, deluded, insane, holocaust-denying Jew hater is either an imposter, or a complete bloody idiot.

And yes, I know Iran is one of the very few ME countries outside Israel with a Jewish population.

there's a idiot ass-kisser in every crowd.

BTW, I notice, among our lefty friends here, very little comment on Hezbollah and their unprovoked attack on West Beirut, killing a number of civilians, and further weakening the control of the rightful gov't of Lebanon............

Gee Whiz, guys, where are all your cries of "the injustice of it all!"

Now, Hezbollah is supported by Syria, and fully funded by Iran. In fact, one could easily say it is the proxy army of Iran. Hezbollah wishes to murder every Jew on earth, and its leader has said so. Hezbollah has hit targets as far away as Argentina, targets that have absolutely nothing to do with ME politics.....only with Jews.

So, why no outcry, o so concerned humanitarians?

I noticed the same thing when Hamas (with the same backers) took over Gaza, in the process throwing several Fatah supporters off of tall buildings.

Very little criticism from the peaceniks.......

But let Israel fire a missile at a car load of rocket firing terrorists in Gaza, and it's "Oh, the inhumanity!"

Could it be?

I think the leftys have picked a side.....

The WRONG one.

As is their right:

I'm just ****ING TIRED of their hypocracy.
 

gopher

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Jun 26, 2005
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Minnesota: Gopher State
"I'm just ****ING TIRED of their hypocracy."


The same could be said of the righties and their defense of Israel's attacks on Lebanon which destroyed its infrasructure and killed over 1,000 people. Better yet, not much has been said by those same geniuses over Bush's continued killing of Iraqis.;-)
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Wow... what a website, gopher! Don't expect me to read it all, but I will keep bar code 729 in mind.
:roll:

The same could be said of the righties and their defense of Israel's attacks on Lebanon which destroyed its infrasructure and killed over 1,000 people. Better yet, not much has been said by those same geniuses over Bush's continued killing of Iraqis.;-)
I think bears repeating for those that missed the point...

BTW, I notice, among our lefty friends here, very little comment on Hezbollah and their unprovoked attack on West Beirut, killing a number of civilians, and further weakening the control of the rightful gov't of Lebanon............

Gee Whiz, guys, where are all your cries of "the injustice of it all!"

Now, Hezbollah is supported by Syria, and fully funded by Iran. In fact, one could easily say it is the proxy army of Iran. Hezbollah wishes to murder every Jew on earth, and its leader has said so. Hezbollah has hit targets as far away as Argentina, targets that have absolutely nothing to do with ME politics.....only with Jews.

So, why no outcry, o so concerned humanitarians?

I noticed the same thing when Hamas (with the same backers) took over Gaza, in the process throwing several Fatah supporters off of tall buildings.

Very little criticism from the peaceniks.......

But let Israel fire a missile at a car load of rocket firing terrorists in Gaza, and it's "Oh, the inhumanity!"

Could it be?

I think the leftys have picked a side.....

The WRONG one.

As is their right:

I'm just ****ING TIRED of their hypocracy.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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How come we westerners didn't complain when our leaders imposed an economic blockade on Palestinians after they democratically elected Hamas? Don't our leaders want democracy to spread thoughout the middle east?

Why didn't we complain when the US and Israel armed opposition forces in a blatant attempt to overthrow Palestine's democratically elected government?

Hamas didn't start the violence which led to their military take over of Gaza. Violence erupted when anti-democratic forces backed by Israel and the US attempted to overthrow the democratically elected Palestinian government. In the end the side with the support of the majority of people (Hamas) won in Gaza but lost in the West Bank.

As a result, democratically ruled Gaza remains under a constant state of seige. Meanwhile, the West Bank which fell to anti-democratic forces supported by the US and Israel suffers accelerated Israeli land theft.

Legitimate Palestinian leaders should be upset that Israel continues to expand their Jewish only colonies on Palestinian land. However Fatah's leaders don't seem to mind as long as they keep getting arms and bribe money which come as a result of maintaining friendly relations with the US and Israel.

No wonder Hamas won the election.

What's going on in Lebanon is a proxy war between the US and Iran. The Lebanese military has decided to remain neutral in this conflict and has focused on restoring order after the battles.

The Independent
Robert Fisk: Hizbollah rules west Beirut in Iran's proxy war with US

Saturday, 10 May 2008


Another American humiliation. The Shia gunmen who drove past my apartment in west Beirut yesterday afternoon were hooting their horns, making V-signs, leaning out of the windows of SUVs with their rifles in the air, proving to the Muslims of the capital that the elected government of Lebanon has lost.

And it has. The national army still patrols the streets, but solely to prevent sectarian killings or massacres. Far from dismantling the pro-Iranian Hizbollah's secret telecommunications system – and disarming the Hizbollah itself – the cabinet of Fouad Siniora sits in the old Turkish serail in Beirut, denouncing violence with the same authority as the Iraqi government in Baghdad's green zone.

The Lebanese army watches the Hizbollah road-blocks. And does nothing. As a Tehran versus Washington conflict, Iran has won, at least for now. Walid Jumblatt, the Druze leader and MP and a pro-American supporter of Mr Siniora's government, is isolated in his home in west Beirut, but has not been harmed. The same applies to Saad Hariri, one of the most prominent government MPs and the son of the murdered former prime minister Rafik Hariri. He remains in his west Beirut palace in Koreitem, guarded by police and soldiers but unable to move without Hizbollah's approval. The symbolism is everything.

When Hamas became part of the Palestinian government, the West rejected it. So Hamas took over Gaza. When the Hizbollah became part of the Lebanese government, the Americans rejected it. Now Hizbollah has taken over west Beirut. The parallels are not exact, of course. Hamas won a convincing electoral victory. Hizbollah was a minority in the Lebanese government; its withdrawal from cabinet seats with other Shias was occasioned by Mr Siniora's American-defined policies and by their own electoral inability to change these. The Lebanese don't want an Islamic republic any more than the Palestinians. But when Sayed Hassan Nasrallah, the Hizbollah chairman, told a press conference that this was a "new era" for Lebanon, he meant what he said.

Mr Hariri's Future Television offices were invested by the army after Hizbollah surrounded it on Thursday night, its staff evacuated and the station switched off. When I turned up there yesterday morning, I joined a queue for manouche – Lebanon's hot cheese breakfast sandwiches – at Eyman's bakery in Watwat Street. I patiently waited behind four black-hooded gunmen from Hizbollah's allied (but highly venal) Amal movement only to find uniformed Lebanese soldiers representing the government patiently queuing at the next window. Law and disorder, it seems, both have to eat.

But I found far more powerful symbolism in Hamra Street, one of west Beirut's two main commercial thoroughfares. More than 100 Hizbollah men were standing or patrolling the highway, clad in new camouflage fatigues, wearing new black flak jackets and new black, peaked, American-style baseball caps and – more to the point – what appeared to be equally new American sniper rifles.

No, this is not a revolution. No, this is not a "hijacking" of west Beirut or the airport, which remains cut off by burning tyres on roads guarded by Hizbollah militiamen. But the government's supporters deserve some space. Several pointed out that the Israelis closed Beirut airport in 2006. So what right did Hizbollah have to do the same to the Lebanese now? And, according to Saad Hariri, Mr Nasrallah – when he called Mr Jumblatt "a thief and a killer" – was "authorising his murder and clearly stating that, 'I am the state and the state is me'." No wonder, then, that Mr Jumblatt fears for his life and that Mr Hariri claims the Hizbollah's coup de folie is a form of fitna, the Arabic for chaos. "I invite you, Sayed Nasrallah, to take back your fighters from the streets and to lift the siege of Beirut to protect the unity of Muslims," he said. "Israel will be rejoicing at the blockade of the country and the collapse of its economy."

Marwan Hamade, Mr Siniora's Telecommunications Minister – and victim of an attempted assassination in 2004 – admitted he had turned a blind eye to Hizbollah's underground phone system but could no longer when he realised that Hizbollah now maintains 99,000 numbered lines.

Mr Nasrallah also insisted on the reinstallation of Brigadier General Wafiq Chucair as head of security at Beirut airport, since he was not a member of Hizbollah. General Chucair was suspended after Mr Jumblatt claimed he worked for Mr Nasrallah's outfit, a demand which prompted Mr Jumblatt to say he did not know General Chucair was so important to Mr Nasrallah that it was worth closing the international airport.

And so it goes on. There was an unusually good editorial in the French-language daily L'Orient Le Jour, which asked how the Hizbollah – literally "the party of God" in Arabic – could have war as its raison d'etre yet be a factor of stability and security in Lebanese domestic affairs. "And this party, can it really call itself the 'Party of God' without creating, in the long term, the distrust of all those other children who count themselves to be from the same unique and one God?"

No, this is not a civil war. Nor is it a coup d'etat, though it meets some of the criteria. It is part of the war against America in the Middle East. The Hizbollah "must stop sowing trouble," the White House said rather meekly. Yes, like the Taliban. And al-Qa'ida. And the Iraqi insurgents. And Hamas. And who else?


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/f...beirut-in-irans-proxy-war-with-us-825430.html
 

MikeyDB

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Dancing_Loon

Simple... Colpy and Bear....they have all the answers when it comes to the ME and given sufficient latitude...everything else....;)
 

Colpy

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How come we westerners didn't complain when our leaders imposed an economic blockade on Palestinians after they democratically elected Hamas? Don't our leaders want democracy to spread thoughout the middle east?

I actually have some sympathy (surprize! :)) for Palestine.......they were faced with a choice between corrupt Fatah and Islamist Hamas..........tough one for a Muslim. However, we do not have to support any gov't just because it is elected.....Hitler was chosen as Chancellor by an elected body.


Why didn't we complain when the US and Israel armed opposition forces in a blatant attempt to overthrow Palestine's democratically elected government?
Hamas didn't start the violence which led to their military take over of Gaza. Violence erupted when anti-democratic forces backed by Israel and the US attempted to overthrow the democratically elected Palestinian government. In the end the side with the support of the majority of people (Hamas) won in Gaza but lost in the West Bank.

Do you REALLY believe that? If so, you're simply hopeless.

As a result, democratically ruled Gaza remains under a constant state of seige. Meanwhile, the West Bank which fell to anti-democratic forces supported by the US and Israel suffers accelerated Israeli land theft.

You'll notice Egypt ain't crazy about opening borders to their former possession either......why is that? Have the Egyptians fallen into the Great Jewish Conspiracy?

No.

They realize Hamas is NUTS!


Legitimate Palestinian leaders should be upset that Israel continues to expand their Jewish only colonies on Palestinian land. However Fatah's leaders don't seem to mind as long as they keep getting arms and bribe money which come as a result of maintaining friendly relations with the US and Israel.

No wonder Hamas won the election.

Yeah, it is no wonder....one shouldn't be surprized. It is, however, a tragedy for the Arabs.

What's going on in Lebanon is a proxy war between the US and Iran. The Lebanese military has decided to remain neutral in this conflict and has focused on restoring order after the battles.

ABSOLUTELY! Now, screw your head on straight and THINK!

Who needs to win? Our friends, our allies, the democratic, free nation, the leader of the western world........or lunatic, genocidal Islamist terrorists......

Think about that for a minute.
 

Colpy

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Dancing_Loon

Simple... Colpy and Bear....they have all the answers when it comes to the ME and given sufficient latitude...everything else....;)

Why, thank you Mikey.

I so appreciate it when my genius is recognized.....and I'm sure CDN Bear does as well.....

:)
 

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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Colpy

Just be careful of those fanatical extremists who invade other nations on the basis of lies and fraud......

Those fanatical extremists who lie to us all daily in our newspapers and through our media and inculcate fear...an aspect of 'terrorism' right in our own backyard.

You've decided that nothing anyone can say nor any fact that can be presented to you can compel you to re-consider your position on Israel....

It must be comforting for you to see the truthfulness and integrity of the media you so robustly embrace proven out over time....like Viet Nam....or Iraq......

You're a pawn Colpy.....as are we all in a game of economics and "belief" played as politics through media and championed as "right" and "justice" and "truth"....by liars and theives.
 

Colpy

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Colpy

Just be careful of those fanatical extremists who invade other nations on the basis of lies and fraud......

Those fanatical extremists who lie to us all daily in our newspapers and through our media and inculcate fear...an aspect of 'terrorism' right in our own backyard.

You've decided that nothing anyone can say nor any fact that can be presented to you can compel you to re-consider your position on Israel....

It must be comforting for you to see the truthfulness and integrity of the media you so robustly embrace proven out over time....like Viet Nam....or Iraq......

You're a pawn Colpy.....as are we all in a game of economics and "belief" played as politics through media and championed as "right" and "justice" and "truth"....by liars and theives.

It is a war, Mikey.

Pick a side.