Ever take a close look at the 10 Commandments?

[bobnoorduyn]

Typical trend in the religiously faithful to a$$ume that people are inherently evil. Sorry, but I consider most people to be inherently good.

You have actually given the definitions of classical conservatives and classical liberals, and you would be one of the latter. Believe it or not, they have switched sides and modern day liberals have adopted the creed of your first sentence, which is why we have so many inane laws to protect us from ourselves.

Why I think that is because I don't think most people would scoot around stealing other people's stuff even if there was no such thing as gods n goblins. And there are none, so I am right.

Sure, you're right, for whatever reason. Most people know it's wrong. But how do they know it's wrong? Our laws are based on that commandment, but still most folks won't do because they know its wrong, not just because of the law. Besides, there are still enough people who do just that and we need the law as a recourse for their malfeasance.

Most people don't steal anyway and besides, I defy anyone to truthfully tell me they haven't coveted something.
So, as I said, you're toast from the getgo as far as the commandments are concerned.

I defy anyone to deny they haven't broken all the commandments. But since we're talking covetousness, I've seen people make themselves sick wanting what other have, that certainly isn't healthy. The other thing is that the offender, if he acts on his feelings, truly feels remorse, makes amends or restitution and asks forgivness. You're not necessarily toast, but in the eyes of the law, you may be.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I'm not sure if I understand; an exception to what?

To the general rule that vesting religious and secular authority in the same people and institutions produces oppressive tyrannies. Cuba, China, the old USSR, and Idi Amin's Uganda are not exceptions, they don't fit the conditions the rule specifies, though a good case can be made that the communist ideologies of the first three have much in common with religion and play to the same weaknesses in human nature.

 

[L Gilbert]

Actually they fight over control of Iraq.

That, too. But neither thinks the other's religion is proper and they fight about it.

 

[L Gilbert]

I'm not sure if I understand; an exception to what? Oppressive tyrannies that don't use religion as a motivator? Cuba comes to mind, along with China, (which bans religion altogether), the former Soviet Union, which pretty much did likewise. Idi Amin needed no religion to excercise his strong arm tactics, kicking out everyone from Uganda who was not from there regardless of their faith, that would be an ethnic motivator. I can think of many more, but I may have misunderstood your question.

Funny. I thought Dexter was pretty clear in what he meant.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Thanks for adding fuel to my fire! I will personally see to it that I speak to anyone who listens, one person or a crowd, and lead others to the river to perform a baptism.

There's nothing "wrong" with that, is there Dex? Seeing how everyone has a free will and can choose whatever he wants to. Am I right?

You're right about the free will I believe, but otherwise, my opinion is no, you're not right and there *is* something wrong with that. Proselytizing in my view is an attempt to subvert people's free will with fear and false promises. "Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself."

 

[L Gilbert]

You have actually given the definitions of classical conservatives and classical liberals, and you would be one of the latter. Believe it or not, they have switched sides and modern day liberals have adopted the creed of your first sentence, which is why we have so many inane laws to protect us from ourselves.

Yup.

Sure, you're right, for whatever reason. Most people know it's wrong. But how do they know it's wrong? Our laws are based on that commandment, but still most folks won't do because they know its wrong, not just because of the law. Besides, there are still enough people who do just that and we need the law as a recourse for their malfeasance.

:roll:Gee, Bob. I guess you are forgetting the rest of the world. They aren't Christian, don't have Bibles, etc. Yet, most of them turn out to be good, too. Go figger. A lot of people as children figure out that it doesn't feel good if you make another kid cry without the "aid" of religious dogma.

I defy anyone to deny they haven't broken all the commandments. But since we're talking covetousness, I've seen people make themselves sick wanting what other have, that certainly isn't healthy. The other thing is that the offender, if he acts on his feelings, truly feels remorse, makes amends or restitution and asks forgivness. You're not necessarily toast, but in the eyes of the law, you may be.

:roll: I deny I haven't broken them all. *skips to the top to see what they were again*

Aaahh, so people can actually get away with anything in the commandments as long as they are remorseful and ask forgiveness afterwards. I see.:roll:

 

[L Gilbert]

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

I don't have any gods, so there is no pecking order either.

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

Heaven doesn't exist, I haven't made any graven images of worms, moles, etc. that might be in the earth, and same for things that might live in the underground waters.

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

My god? I don't have gods so it's pretty tough for me to take one's name in vain.

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

Sabbath days tend to be arbitrary, so everyone is probably toast.

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

hhhmmm Can't remember when I haven't honored them. Made em pissed off at me a few times. Does that count?

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

Guilty. I can't help it. I love spuds, carrots, moose, broccoli, fish, etc.

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

Haven't done that yet. No plans to either.

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

Guilty. I think I was 4. Grabbed a Jersey Milk choc. bar off a shelf and had it almost all gone by the time someone noticed.

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

Any lie I tell is to pollsters and to whomever I think might get in deep doodoo if I told them the truth. They are for filtering purposes only. But, I am guilty.

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

Quit that long time ago. But guilty.

 

[L Gilbert]

.........:roll: I deny I haven't broken them all. *skips to the top to see what they were again*.........

I recant this. I DO claim I haven't broken them all; only some.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I must be a pretty good guy. I'm still good on commandments 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, and 9. Six out of ten, a clear passing grade in most jurisdictions, and I'm an atheist. :smile:

 

[L Gilbert]

I must be a pretty good guy. I'm still good on commandments 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, and 9. Six out of ten, a clear passing grade in most jurisdictions, and I'm an atheist. :smile:

I agree about the good guy bit, but um, Dex? You skipped 3. You have a god(s) whose name(s) you take in vain? I am crushed.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I must be a pretty good guy. I'm still good on commandments 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, and 9. Six out of ten, a clear passing grade in most jurisdictions, and I'm an atheist. :smile:

Dexter, you are an Atheist and still manage to obey the 1st Commandment? That must be quite a feat, how do you manage that?

 

[JLM]

Yup, and I think Luxemburg is the second smallest autonomous country.

Don't forget San Marino, Monte Carlo, Andorra and Litchestein.

 

[JLM]

Dexter, you are an Atheist and still manage to obey the 1st Commandment? That must be quite a feat, how do you manage that?

Simple- all he has to do is worship no other gods.

 

[JLM]

Don't forget San Marino, Monte Carlo, Andorra and Litchestein.

That should read Monaco not Monte Carlo, woke up to a flash of Partzheimers this morning. :lol:

 

[Dexter Sinister]

You skipped 3. You have a god(s) whose name(s) you take in vain? I am crushed.

Be of good cheer my friend, I have no gods, but I have taken the name of the one referenced there in vain, so I figured I'd probably be found guilty on that one. But if you're suggesting I can claim 7 out of 10, I'll take it. :smile:

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Dexter, you are an Atheist and still manage to obey the 1st Commandment? That must be quite a feat, how do you manage that?

Yep, as JLM indicated,it's easy, just have no gods at all, then obviously there can't be a hierarchy of them.

 

[YukonJack]

For a truly expert opinion about the Ten Commandments, ask an atheist.

Many with over-bloated ego on this forum.

 

[Niflmir]

For a truly expert opinion about the Ten Commandments, ask an atheist.

Sure, when you want to judge the veracity of something you do not want to ask someone who presupposes it.

 

[TenPenny]

Dexter, you are an Atheist and still manage to obey the 1st Commandment? That must be quite a feat, how do you manage that?

Probably by understanding what is says and what it means.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

For a truly expert opinion about the Ten Commandments, ask an atheist.

Many with over-bloated ego on this forum.

Indeed, Yukon. Many Atheists know the Bible better than many so called Christians.

Many Christians simply parrot what the Bible says (or what they think the Bible says). In this respect, Archie Bunker is representative of many Christians. He has some half baked knowledge of what the Bible says, and he uses that to justify his prejudices.

But an Atheist usually has studied the Bible (and other religious books besides), has critically examined the Bible and found it wanting. So it is not unreasonable to suppose that Atheists are more familiar with the Bible than many Christians.