Is there somewhere in the bible that says abortions are bad or that is OK to kill anybody who performs them? I would think that a person would have to have a few genes or brain cells missing to take a book of fiction literally.
Ever take a close look at the 10 Commandments?
- Thread starter L Gilbert
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Is there somewhere in the bible that says abortions are bad or that is OK to kill anybody who performs them? I would think that a person would have to have a few genes or brain cells missing to take a book of fiction literally.
Yup. Admiring is thinking something is pleasant. Coveting is wishing one had it.
Fortunately most people have a sense of decency in spite of religions' view that we would all be evil were it not for them.
I'm the wrong one to ask because I have forgotten almost everything I read in the book. But, I did find this
which seems to suggest it isn't all that bad to cause a woman to abort, but it is bad to kill her.
yeah, but, that doesn't really address abortion so much as it addresses violence against a pregnant woman.
To me (and definitely most pro-life people) the key one that addresses abortion is right there in your OP, only it's often worded 'kill' rather than 'murder', and that condemns the murder of Tiller too.
“Obey Thy Ten Commandments, Or Else”:
1st. Commandment, Exodus 20:3 “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”. Old Testament punishment - Deuteronomy 17:1-5 “And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heavens, which I have not commanded. Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing and shalt stone them with stones, till they die”. Deuteronomy 13:6-10, “If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is of thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. Thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God." Exodus 22:20 “He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed”. New Testament punishment - Mark 16:16 “He that believeth not, shall be damned”.
2nd. Commandment, Exodus 20:4 “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water below.” Old Testament punishment- Deuteronomy 27: 1 5 “Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image.” That’s right kids don’t EVER draw, sculpt or paint or else god will curse you. Wanna be an artist, a photographer, take a picture of yourself or family? TOO BAD, God says no! You better drop out of art class before he smites you with boils.
3rd. Commandment, Exodus 20:7 “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain”. Old Testament punishment - Leviticus 24:16 “And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death”, New Testament punishment - Matthew 12:32 “Whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come”. Mark 3:29 - “He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgivness, but is in danger of eternal damnation”.
4th. Commandment, Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy”. Old Testament punishment - Exodus 31:15 “Whosoever shall work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death”. Numbers 15:32. “And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the Sabbath day…And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.”
5th. Commandment, Exodus 20:12 “Honour thy father and thy mother”. Old Testament punishment - Exodus 21:15-17 “And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death”. More punishment - Exodus 21:17 “And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death”.
6th. Commandment, Exodus 20:13 “Thou shalt not kill”. Strangely enough this is a commandment despite all the punishments that require death in the New Testament and the Old Testament. How can thou not kill when thou is commanded to kill at the same time? This hypocrisy should be pointed out if the ten commandments are posted in schools, court rooms and buildings of legislation. The confusion of this commandment would surely bring capitol punishment into question.
7th. Commandment, Exodus 20:14 “Thou shalt not commit adultery”. Old Testament punishment - Leviticus 20:10 “And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death”.
I am working on compiling the list of punishments for commandments 8, 9, and 10. They should be up by then. In the mean while I have several other random commands by god that are quite interesting which I have listed here. The following command is very relevant for it requires a mandatory belief in the biblical god. Following the Ten Commandments, which are also listed in Deuteronomy 5:7-21, there are a number of curses which shall come upon thee, and overtake thee. These curses are given in Deuteronomy 28:17-68. Space does not permit all of them to be quoted, but a few are that the Lord will smite thee with consumption, fever, hemorrhoids, scab, madness, blindness, boils, and many more even worse.
For those of you Christians who disregard the Old Testament (even though Christ said it was forever binding), I have gathered together a great law from the New Testament. Romans 1 :29-32 “Those filled with unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, hate for god, despite, proud, boasters, inventions of evil things, disobedience to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, unnatural affection, implacable or unmerciful nature: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death”.
Now I have had the displeasure of meeting many a Christian and I have one to meet as of yet, whom according to this list, are NOT worthy of death. How many of us feel envy, wish to fornicate, boast or gossip? How many Christians are guilty of debating? Why every day some Christian is debating the word of god or his dogmas with me. Every day I am the victim of deceit and despite at the hands of some Christian verbally harassing me for my beliefs. No wonder why god said that there shall only be 144,000 in the heaven out of all his followers.
In Conclusion:
Christians and Jews should post the commandments up in their parochial schools and in their churches/temples. But, if they insist on doing so they should print out this very page and hang it up for all to see. Don’t be a half-ass religionist; educate your children on what God truly commands. Stop thriving on telling half truths about your Bible/Pentateuch and publish the WHOLE story. Most importantly, do not think you have the right to post them in public institutions. It is MY job to educate MY child. Children need to learn the true meaning of love, compassion, morality, forgiveness and mercy. Not the filthy dogmas your Jehovah commands. Quite frankly, in comparison to hell-fire and damnation I’ll stick with Big Bird.
It would be scary, Ron but would include all the original sins plus a few more like skulduggery, embezzlement, perjury BUT encouraging them if that is what is necessary to keep ahead of the Joneses.
Okay, so, this is the bee in my bonnet today, and rather than start a new thread about it, I'm just going to post it here and hope that dissecting a single interpretation issue isn't too big a deal.
THOU SHALT NOT KILL
I know it annoys the atheists to no end when us religious types say this, but, the New Testament, the Bible as it is most pertinent to Christians, upholds this commandment just fine. Calls to kill in God's name are Old Testament. They do not apply.
THOU SHALT NOT MURDER
Interpretations are a lovely thing, and I would like to say, do not, ever, trust a person, a church, or a government, who words the sixth commandment this way. Murder. It's not the same thing as killing to many people. Murder is something you do when you're going against social order. What you do when your government, or your church, call you to kill, is generally not called 'murder'. What you do when you feel your religion dictates that someone must die, is not 'murder'. And thus one can easily soothe their conscience from having followed their convictions down the path to ending someone's life. They can easily excuse the death penalty, they can easily excuse war time bombing, they can easily excuse the death of an abortion doctor.
Thou shalt not kill.
THOU SHALT NOT KILL
I know it annoys the atheists to no end when us religious types say this, but, the New Testament, the Bible as it is most pertinent to Christians, upholds this commandment just fine. Calls to kill in God's name are Old Testament. They do not apply.
THOU SHALT NOT MURDER
Interpretations are a lovely thing, and I would like to say, do not, ever, trust a person, a church, or a government, who words the sixth commandment this way. Murder. It's not the same thing as killing to many people. Murder is something you do when you're going against social order. What you do when your government, or your church, call you to kill, is generally not called 'murder'. What you do when you feel your religion dictates that someone must die, is not 'murder'. And thus one can easily soothe their conscience from having followed their convictions down the path to ending someone's life. They can easily excuse the death penalty, they can easily excuse war time bombing, they can easily excuse the death of an abortion doctor.
Thou shalt not kill.
We do that anyway. Religious justifications for morality are just post hoc rationalization of existing conditions. There are something over 600 prescriptions for correct behaviour in the OT, most of them either silly in the modern context, or illegal, and nobody pays any attention to those. Every so often some fools drag one out when they have a particular axe to grind and can't think of a logical argument. They'll cite biblical authority instead, like the "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" argument against the Harry Potter books. Read Deuteronomy 21:18-21 and tell me if you think I could get away with citing that in defense of stoning to death the little vandal who's been doing damage around my neighbourhood lately.
And when asked to lock their wives away from the public for five days of the month.... lol.... they'll say that the OT isn't the book of authority anymore. Until it comes time to argue against homosexuality. Then it most definitely IS the authority.
THOU SHALT NOT MURDER
Interpretations are a lovely thing, and I would like to say, do not, ever, trust a person, a church, or a government, who words the sixth commandment this way. Murder. It's not the same thing as killing to many people. Murder is something you do when you're going against social order. What you do when your government, or your church, call you to kill, is generally not called 'murder'. What you do when you feel your religion dictates that someone must die, is not 'murder'. And thus one can easily soothe their conscience from having followed their convictions down the path to ending someone's life. They can easily excuse the death penalty, they can easily excuse war time bombing, they can easily excuse the death of an abortion doctor.
Karrie, that is an unusual interpretation, I don’t think most Christians interpret it that way. By your interpretation, death penalty is wrong, against the Bible. But support for death penalty is strongest among devout, believing Christians.
Interpretations are a lovely thing, and I would like to say, do not, ever, trust a person, a church, or a government, who words the sixth commandment this way. Murder. It's not the same thing as killing to many people. Murder is something you do when you're going against social order. What you do when your government, or your church, call you to kill, is generally not called 'murder'. What you do when you feel your religion dictates that someone must die, is not 'murder'. And thus one can easily soothe their conscience from having followed their convictions down the path to ending someone's life. They can easily excuse the death penalty, they can easily excuse war time bombing, they can easily excuse the death of an abortion doctor.
Karrie, that is an unusual interpretation, I don’t think most Christians interpret it that way. By your interpretation, death penalty is wrong, against the Bible. But support for death penalty is strongest among devout, believing Christians.
Absolutely, we start doing that as children, but we grow up. I certainly have envied others' lots in life and all the trappings of it, but coveting it is what you might call being green with envy, to the point you want to take it from them, rather than working toward achieving that goal on your own.
He may say so, but it is not demanded by their religion, but by those who tell them it is demanded by their religion. They use religion to demand it of their followers.
Well... the OT isn't the only authority to argue against homosexuality either. But it did have a lot to do with hygene, food spoilage and other health threats that were mitigated by the time the NT was produced. Issues of morality never changed, how the immoral were judged and treated however, did.
Note how in the 10 commandments, husbands are covetable.
Hmmm, does this give me some ideas about how things once were, in the good ol' days.
Hmmm, does this give me some ideas about how things once were, in the good ol' days.
Mmm, kinda missed that one, or was it an error of omission. Remember that in all mammals, and most species, that the male can sew its seed in many, but the female can only breed from one. The women are the pickey ones, they have to be because they can only bear one at a time. They get to choose from whom, normally the one they took as a husband. Why would they covet someone else? Or their husband?:lol:
Nice bit of sophistry, exonerating religion and blaming instead the people who speak for it, as if they were somehow unrelated. That allows one to follow a religion while disclaiming all complicity or responsibility for anything done in its name by others who follow it. So, Catholics versus Protestants in Northern Ireland, and most of western Europe in recent centuries, Hindus versus Muslims in Kashmir, Sinhalese Buddhists versus Tamil Hindus in Sri Lanka, Muslims versus Jews in the Middle East, Sunnis versus Shi'ites in Iraq... how long a list would you like? But none of that has anything to do with religions of course, just the people who follow them. :roll:
Don't know about that Old TEstament, I thought it was Okay until I got to the part about Jonah spending 3 days in the whale and came back to relate the story. Could have been a toothless whale I suppose.