Ever take a close look at the 10 Commandments?

[Cliffy]

In the OT women were locked away for five days to protect them from wild predators that had a taste for menstrual blood. In the Americas it is bears that find it irresistible... Yummm!!! It had a practical application then but today it is just good advice for a woman on her moon cycle to stay out of the woods alone.

 

[L Gilbert]

Absolutely, we start doing that as children, but we grow up. I certainly have envied others' lots in life and all the trappings of it, but coveting it is what you might call being green with envy, to the point you want to take it from them, rather than working toward achieving that goal on your own.

The thought is coveting, the action would be theft. You aren't supposed to do either. You are toast.

 

[L Gilbert]

He may say so, but it is not demanded by their religion, but by those who tell them it is demanded by their religion. They use religion to demand it of their followers.

I guess you didn't read that little bit of Deuteronomy I posted. The Quran, as far as I can tell, is plum full of rules about what you can do to people in nasty ways.
Read this bit:


The Good Book

 

[L Gilbert]

In the OT women were locked away for five days to protect them from wild predators that had a taste for menstrual blood. In the Americas it is bears that find it irresistible... Yummm!!! It had a practical application then but today it is just good advice for a woman on her moon cycle to stay out of the woods alone.

Apparently, fetuses also like menstrual blood. (I posted a funny in Ron's BJ thread).

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Quoting Cliffy
Number two about craven images: what are those bleeding Jesus' doing in the churches and the mother Mary statues, angels etc. Seems to me the church has been breaking rule 2 from the get go.

You're not the only one, a lot of what I might call purists agree, but those particular churches break a lot more rules than that, and make up some of their own nonsensical ones to boot. – bobnoorduyn

Cliffy, bob, you are both wrong. Number two is not a Catholic Commandment. It is not generally known, but Catholic and Protestant Commandments are slightly different. Catholics do not have the second Commandment. Since Protestantism came after Catholicism, one can only conclude that the second commandment was made up by Martin Luther. So when they make graven images of Mary or anybody else, they are not breaking any Commandments.

But then where is the tenth Commandment of Catholics (they are one short). They break up the Protestant tenth Commandment into two. Protestant tenth Commandment is both ninth and tenth of Catholics.

The Ten Commandments - Roman Catholic Church Version

 

[ironsides]

Because the Aliens had left us for so long, man decided to make the Commandments more livable. Moses was give over 600 Commandments, how come we get the Readers Digest version. Wonder what ever happened to those Aliens, did they just die out?

They did however give us a basic moral code to base our lives upon.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+2]Which Ten Commandments?
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+2]Protestant
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+2]Catholic[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+2]Hebrew[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1. I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1. I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; Thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; And showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep My commandments.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3. Remember thou keep the Sabbath Day.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4. Honor thy Father and thy Mother.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work. But the seventh day is the Sabbath in honour of the Lord thy God; on it thou shalt not do any work, neither thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5. Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5. Thou shalt not kill.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5. Honour thy father and thy mother; in order that thy days may be prolonged upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]6. Thou shalt not kill.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]6. Thou shalt not commit adultery.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]6. Thou shalt not kill.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]7. Thou shalt not steal.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]8. Thou shalt not steal.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]8. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]8. Thou shalt not steal.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]9. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's goods.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house; thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.[/FONT]


Since the Hebrew 10 Commandments have been reproduced letter for letter since the time of Moses, it must be as closest version to what was handed down as possible.





[/SIZE][/FONT]
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[bobnoorduyn]

Don't know about that Old TEstament, I thought it was Okay until I got to the part about Jonah spending 3 days in the whale and came back to relate the story. Could have been a toothless whale I suppose.

Baleen whales don't have teeth.;-)

 

[bobnoorduyn]

The thought is coveting, the action would be theft. You aren't supposed to do either. You are toast.

And the first generally leads to the other, if you don't covet you are highly unlikely to steal.

 

[YukonJack]

There is not a single piece of law, literature, opinion and/or religious dogma that could not be picked apart by sufficient malice and taking words out of context.

I encourage the initial poster of this thread to initiate a similar one about anything in the Holy Quoran.

Better hire some body guards!

 

[bobnoorduyn]

Nice bit of sophistry, exonerating religion and blaming instead the people who speak for it, as if they were somehow unrelated. That allows one to follow a religion while disclaiming all complicity or responsibility for anything done in its name by others who follow it. So, Catholics versus Protestants in Northern Ireland, and most of western Europe in recent centuries, Hindus versus Muslims in Kashmir, Sinhalese Buddhists versus Tamil Hindus in Sri Lanka, Muslims versus Jews in the Middle East, Sunnis versus Shi'ites in Iraq... how long a list would you like? But none of that has anything to do with religions of course, just the people who follow them. :roll:

Wars are fought over real estate, using religion to justify aggression is quite common, but just as wrong. The war in Northern Ireland wasn't about religion as much as it was over the Irish or British control of the state. Much the same as in the Middle East, land long ago occupied by the Jews was taken back from the Arabs, and of course they didn't like that.

Religion is a handy motivator for all kinds of things, but if it weren't that it would be something else. Ethnicity, or tribal membership are also a handy excuses and motivators to take or re-take real estate.

 

[Cliffy]

Baleen whales don't have teeth.;-)

I think one would have to eviscerated to be able to pass through baleen, like trying to pass your body through the eye of a needle.:smile:

 

[Cliffy]

There is not a single piece of law, literature, opinion and/or religious dogma that could not be picked apart by sufficient malice and taking words out of context.

I encourage the initial poster of this thread to initiate a similar one about anything in the Holy Quoran.

Better hire some body guards!

We have already trashed the "Quoran" which is why eanassir doesn't come here any more. Now, I have noticed that we have yet to trash the Vedas or the Bavagad Gita. But then we don't see too many Hairy Kershnerics on here either.

 

[JLM]

Baleen whales don't have teeth.;-)

O.K. that explains it. Sure hope I didn't offend anyone by doubting old Jonah.

 

[bobnoorduyn]

I think one would have to eviscerated to be able to pass through baleen, like trying to pass your body through the eye of a needle.:smile:

But how much is symbolism? The Bible was written by many over a long period of time, and was written with respect to the zeitgeist of each period. (The Koran on the other hand was supposedly written by one over a short period of time, in the spirit of that time, maybe that's why its followers are stuck in the 12th century.)
That many of the books related to either the political or social climate at the time doesn't make them less relevent today, but some perspective is needed too. The reason I don't get too far into these discussions is because they attract polar opposites, either the rabid thumpers or the rabid deniers, and then it's not a discussion but endless arguing, and neither side can be proven right or wrong. I must have been bored to get sucked into this one.

To me, putting unquestioning faith in someone like Christopher Hitchens is no different than putting that same faith in the local unmarried priest giving marriage coulnselling.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

We have already trashed the "Quoran" which is why eanassir doesn't come here any more. Now, I have noticed that we have yet to trash the Vedas or the Bavagad Gita. But then we don't see too many Hairy Kershnerics on here either.

Cliffy, I have done my share here of trashing Hinduism. I have criticized the custom of suttee, the role of women in Hinduism etc. There has not been much trashing of Hinduism because Hinduism is largely unknown to the Western world (in spite of the fact that there are slightly less than 1 billion Hindus in the world, it is the third biggest religion after Christianity and Islam).

The reason is that Hindus don’t make waves, they don’t carry out terrorist acts against the West, they don’t spout extremist rhetoric from their temples. So there is no urgent reason for westerners to notice Hinduism. So even though there probably are as many Hindus as Muslims in North America (I don’t have the statistics), very little attention is paid to Hinduism, most of the attention is paid to Islam.

 

[L Gilbert]

And the first generally leads to the other, if you don't covet you are highly unlikely to steal.

Typical trend in the religiously faithful to a$$ume that people are inherently evil. Sorry, but I consider most people to be inherently good. Why I think that is because I don't think most people would scoot around stealing other people's stuff even if there was no such thing as gods n goblins. And there are none, so I am right.
Most people don't steal anyway and besides, I defy anyone to truthfully tell me they haven't coveted something.
So, as I said, you're toast from the getgo as far as the commandments are concerned.

 

[L Gilbert]

Quoting Cliffy
Number two about craven images: what are those bleeding Jesus' doing in the churches and the mother Mary statues, angels etc. Seems to me the church has been breaking rule 2 from the get go.

You're not the only one, a lot of what I might call purists agree, but those particular churches break a lot more rules than that, and make up some of their own nonsensical ones to boot. – bobnoorduyn

Cliffy, bob, you are both wrong. Number two is not a Catholic Commandment. It is not generally known, but Catholic and Protestant Commandments are slightly different. Catholics do not have the second Commandment. Since Protestantism came after Catholicism, one can only conclude that the second commandment was made up by Martin Luther. So when they make graven images of Mary or anybody else, they are not breaking any Commandments.

But then where is the tenth Commandment of Catholics (they are one short). They break up the Protestant tenth Commandment into two. Protestant tenth Commandment is both ninth and tenth of Catholics.

The Ten Commandments - Roman Catholic Church Version

Nitwit. They aren't wrong because not everyone follows the RC commandments.

 

[L Gilbert]

There is not a single piece of law, literature, opinion and/or religious dogma that could not be picked apart by sufficient malice and taking words out of context.

I disagree. There are always people with malice and spinners picking things apart. Fortunately, there are also people that analyse things objectively, too. I like the balance. The one keeps us on our toes and the other is informative.

I encourage the initial poster of this thread to initiate a similar one about anything in the Holy Quoran.

I know little about the Quran and if it has commandments, but I will snoop.

Better hire some body guards!

Why?

 

[L Gilbert]

Wars are fought over real estate, using religion to justify aggression is quite common, but just as wrong. The war in Northern Ireland wasn't about religion as much as it was over the Irish or British control of the state. Much the same as in the Middle East, land long ago occupied by the Jews was taken back from the Arabs, and of course they didn't like that.

It is in Iraq. The Shi'ites and Sunnis simply fight over Islam.

Religion is a handy motivator for all kinds of things, but if it weren't that it would be something else. Ethnicity, or tribal membership are also a handy excuses and motivators to take or re-take real estate.

Right. That's called politics. As I keep saying, if it wasn't for religion and politics and most everyone stuck to the golden rule, this planet would be "heavenly".

 

[YukonJack]

L Gilbert, you ask why anyone saying the truth about Islam need a body guard.
Have you ever heard about Salman Rushde?

L Gilbert, have you heard what happened to the journalist in Holland who had the nerve to question and/or criticize Islam?

Butchered by religious Muslims!

Have you heard about the idiots marching, protesting ang killing over cartoons?

Have you ever heard any Muslim who, would give as much freedom to a Christian or a Jew in a Muslim country as Muslims are afforded in the Western World, which they pollute with their presence?