Ever take a close look at the 10 Commandments?

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
70
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
L Gilbert, you ask why anyone saying the truth about Islam need a body guard.
Have you ever heard about Salman Rushde?
Salman Rashti? Yup.

L Gilbert, have you heard what happened to the journalist in Holland who had the nerve to question and/or criticize Islam?
I may have. Not sure.

Butchered by religious Muslims!

Have you heard about the idiots marching, protesting ang killing over cartoons?

Have you ever heard any Muslim who, would give as much freedom to a Christian or a Jew in a Muslim country as Muslims are afforded in the Western World, which they pollute with their presence?
I have heard and read a lot of stuff. So?

Have you looked in the "religion & philosophy" forum? No religion is safe from criticism there and there are a few of us execising those critixisms. Haven't heard about any of us dying from terrorist attacks yet.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
Salman Rashti? Yup.

I may have. Not sure.

I have heard and read a lot of stuff. So?

Have you looked in the "religion & philosophy" forum? No religion is safe from criticism there and there are a few of us execising those critixisms. Haven't heard about any of us dying from terrorist attacks yet.

It is only a matter of time. I think if Jack could reach through his monitor to ours, he would rip out our esophagus'.:p
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
Quoting Jack: "Have you ever heard any Muslim who, would give as much freedom to a Christian or a Jew in a Muslim country as Muslims are afforded in the Western World, which they pollute with their presence?"

I bet if Israel was not there, you would support turning the Middle East into glass and letting god sort it out.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
70
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
Quoting Jack: "Have you ever heard any Muslim who, would give as much freedom to a Christian or a Jew in a Muslim country as Muslims are afforded in the Western World, which they pollute with their presence?"

I bet if Israel was not there, you would support turning the Middle East into glass and letting god sort it out.
There are a couple around here that probably would. :)
 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
7,026
73
48
Winnipeg
Cliffy, I am sad to read your posts #62 and #63.

I gave you more credit than that.

I am sure that in your soul you know that you are wrong accusing me of the things you are accusing me of. You just want to suck up to your soul-mate, L Gilbert, who needs all the help he can get. No matter where from.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
Cliffy, I am sad to read your posts #62 and #63.

I gave you more credit than that.

I am sure that in your soul you know that you are wrong accusing me of the things you are accusing me of. You just want to suck up to your soul-mate, L Gilbert, who needs all the help he can get. No matter where from.

That's hilarious! Since when did you give me any credit? You come across as such an angry person that I actually think of you like that in spite of your claims to the contrary.
 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
7,026
73
48
Winnipeg
"That's hilarious! Since when did you give me any credit? You come across as such an angry person that I actually think of you like that in spite of your claims to the contrary."

Let us be fair, now, Cliffy. When, if ever was the time that you were anything other than condescending and offensive towards me? There were many times I agreed with you and said so. You NEVER gave me the time of the day.

I am quite possibly older than you. But angry? Or angrier than you??

NEVER!!!!
 
Last edited:

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
536
113
Regina, SK
Religion is a handy motivator for all kinds of things, but if it weren't that it would be something else. Ethnicity, or tribal membership are also a handy excuses and motivators to take or re-take real estate.
Agreed, but that doesn't excuse religion. You argue as if religion were some abstract body of truths that people just misinterpret to suit their own ends, thus excusing religion itself from anything bad done in its name. I don't see the logic of that at all; religion's a human invention, in fact it's the ultimate tribal marker and division between groups of people. Hitchens correctly points out that power corrupts religion uniquely, because of its absolute truth claims. As Jacob Bronowski remarked, standing in the pond at Auschwitz, "When people believe they have absolute knowledge, with no test in reality, this is how they behave." He's right. The history of religion, or any other unthinking ideology that makes absolute truth claims, with secular power is a dismal tale of slaughter and repression. Religion's not much of a danger in the West anymore because it's been largely stripped of its secular power, though the religious right in the United States is a little alarming, but look at any place around the world where religious and secular authority are vested in the same people and institutions. Almost without exception you will find oppressive tyrannies. Actually I can't think of an exception. Anyone? That's the true nature of religion.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
70
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
Agreed, but that doesn't excuse religion. You argue as if religion were some abstract body of truths that people just misinterpret to suit their own ends, thus excusing religion itself from anything bad done in its name. I don't see the logic of that at all; religion's a human invention, in fact it's the ultimate tribal marker and division between groups of people. Hitchens correctly points out that power corrupts religion uniquely, because of its absolute truth claims. As Jacob Bronowski remarked, standing in the pond at Auschwitz, "When people believe they have absolute knowledge, with no test in reality, this is how they behave." He's right. The history of religion, or any other unthinking ideology that makes absolute truth claims, with secular power is a dismal tale of slaughter and repression. Religion's not much of a danger in the West anymore because it's been largely stripped of its secular power, though the religious right in the United States is a little alarming, but look at any place around the world where religious and secular authority are vested in the same people and institutions. Almost without exception you will find oppressive tyrannies. Actually I can't think of an exception. Anyone? That's the true nature of religion.
The Vatican? Not sure about that place, though.
 

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
3,893
46
48
BC
Okay, so, this is the bee in my bonnet today, and rather than start a new thread about it, I'm just going to post it here and hope that dissecting a single interpretation issue isn't too big a deal.

THOU SHALT NOT KILL

I know it annoys the atheists to no end when us religious types say this, but, the New Testament, the Bible as it is most pertinent to Christians, upholds this commandment just fine. Calls to kill in God's name are Old Testament. They do not apply.


So Moses comes down from the mountain with this commandment freshly minted and slaughters a bunch of people for building a golden calf to Baal and that isn't relevant!?!?!?

That act shows a distinct lack of faith in the commandment and its supposed issuer. Quite obviously god did not make the tablet but Moses did. If god had made it he wouldn't have dared to break it.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
536
113
Regina, SK
The Vatican? Not sure about that place, though.
Ah, I hadn't thought of that one. It doesn't come to mind when I think of nations. You're not sure in what sense, whether it's an oppressive tyranny, or whether it's really a place? :smile: It's certainly an odd place, a nation of nominally celibate men, except perhaps for the Swiss Guard. I googled Vatican citizenship and found this:

"As of December 31st 2005, there were 557, persons having the Vatican citizenship, of which 58 Cardinals, 293 of the Clergy having status as members of the Pontifical Representations, 62 other members of the Clergy, 101 members of the Pontifical Swiss Guard and 43 other lay persons."

Odd, those numbers don't appear to count the Pope. I would assume the people who live there don't find it to be an oppressive tyranny, but that's only because they buy the dogma and think everything's fine. I'm sure I'd find it an oppressive tyranny if I were one of those 43 lay persons there. No chance I'd ever belong to any of those other groups. :smile:
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
"That's hilarious! Since when did you give me any credit? You come across as such an angry person that I actually think of you like that in spite of your claims to the contrary."

Let us be fair, now, Cliffy. When, if ever was the time that you were anything other than condescending and offensive towards me? There were many times I agreed with you and said so. You NEVER gave me the time of the day.

I am quite possibly older than you. But angry? Or angrier than you??

NEVER!!!!

Actually Y.J. I've noticed Cliff has been pretty tolerant of you and generally in a light hearted way, although some of your assertions have given him and most others on here a good reason for a chortle.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
70
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
Ah, I hadn't thought of that one. It doesn't come to mind when I think of nations. You're not sure in what sense, whether it's an oppressive tyranny, or whether it's really a place? :smile: It's certainly an odd place, a nation of nominally celibate men, except perhaps for the Swiss Guard. I googled Vatican citizenship and found this:

"As of December 31st 2005, there were 557, persons having the Vatican citizenship, of which 58 Cardinals, 293 of the Clergy having status as members of the Pontifical Representations, 62 other members of the Clergy, 101 members of the Pontifical Swiss Guard and 43 other lay persons."

Odd, those numbers don't appear to count the Pope. I would assume the people who live there don't find it to be an oppressive tyranny, but that's only because they buy the dogma and think everything's fine. I'm sure I'd find it an oppressive tyranny if I were one of those 43 lay persons there. No chance I'd ever belong to any of those other groups. :smile:
I'm not sure if it's autonomous from the rest of Italy, or even Rome.
You don't think you'd like living there? hmmm That doesn't sound very tolerant of you:lol:, Dex.
 

bobnoorduyn

Council Member
Nov 26, 2008
2,262
28
48
Mountain Veiw County
Almost without exception you will find oppressive tyrannies. Actually I can't think of an exception. Anyone? That's the true nature of religion.

I'm not sure if I understand; an exception to what? Oppressive tyrannies that don't use religion as a motivator? Cuba comes to mind, along with China, (which bans religion altogether), the former Soviet Union, which pretty much did likewise. Idi Amin needed no religion to excercise his strong arm tactics, kicking out everyone from Uganda who was not from there regardless of their faith, that would be an ethnic motivator. I can think of many more, but I may have misunderstood your question.
 

In Between Man

The Biblical Position
Sep 11, 2008
4,597
46
48
44
49° 19' N, 123° 4' W
and adds a third one I like: thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.

Thanks for adding fuel to my fire! I will personally see to it that I speak to anyone who listens, one person or a crowd, and lead others to the river to perform a baptism.

There's nothing "wrong" with that, is there Dex? Seeing how everyone has a free will and can choose whatever he wants to. Am I right?