Drunken Breast Feeding

[AnnaG]

The OP states that the police intervened and the child aprehended because of multiple concerns with the fact that she was drunk while breast feeding the child in front of the police as being only one factor. There didn't seem to be any "problem" as far as the police were concerned and in this case she pleaded guilty to the charges. I am sure her lawyer knew about other cases from other states where women have been "let go" when it came to breast feeding and alcohol consumption, and the fact that she did plead guilty leads me to believe that the breast feeding was minor or inconsequential to the reason's for the apprehension of the child and the charges.

I wonder why Uf is so concerned that she'll spend 5 years in prison.

As for Breast feeding while consuming alcohol, there have been no studies done on this at all. All "data" has been ancedotal as to the effects of alcohol on breast feeding babies. Since there is no hard data, recomendations fall from complete abstention to a maximum of one or 2 glasses per day.

Right. One or two of my links stated the reason why there haven't been any studies like that. The hard data available is that alcohol and any larger quantities than contained in 1 or 2 drinks is not good and that alcohol has a deleterious effect on cells especially developing cells. Everyone and their dog knows it isn't good for livers and since babies' livers cannot process it nearly as fast as grownups, it's even worse for babies than grownups. It doesn't take an Einstein to add that up.
I will stick by my original comment about erring in favor of caution rather than letting the woman continue and possibly screwing the kid up. She probably was shook up enough that she'll be more responsible after. The judge probably thinks so, too, and would let that be that. Perhaps she or he might order that she take some sort of parenbting skills course but I really think Uf's fears that she'll be jailed for 5 years are unfounded.

 

[Unforgiven]

Did I say anywhere FAS comes from breast feeding? That's just your highly inaccurate interpretation. I did say if she's that unconcerned that she's feeding and caring for a baby while she's drinking, the chances are pretty good that she was drinking during the pregnancy - where FAS DOES take root.

Talk about assumptions. Show me where it is in the police report that says anything at all about FAS. There is nothing about it there at all. Where is it shown that she is drinking while feeding her baby. Not in any article on this subject.

You're making **** up as you go along, for no other reason than to have a go at me. You have no support for your position, and frankly, you come off as a gutless wonder for trying to build a strawman out of a case where no evidence other than your imagination exists to support it.

 

[Unforgiven]

There isn't a great deal of alcohol in cough syrup for kids and if the instructions are followed correctly the kid would be likely be safe.

Oh I see you changed your mind on that between now and when you said this.

"Now someone please seriously and sincerely tell me that they believe alcohol doesn't harm kids whatever the delivery system is."

Are you so bent on baiting and trolling that you have no interest in the facts of the case nor what your own position is on them anymore? There is definately something wrong with you.

The woman has been jailed for 5 tears? I missed that part. I thought that was just the POSSIBLE outcome.

The woman was jailed and by the looks of it, coerced into copping to a class C felony in order to get released from jail and get her kid back.

All over a little bit of alcohol that the kid never ingested in the first place.
I think the part you missed was the think before you speak part when you woke up today.

Yup, and the States were doing ok for a while until a variety of factors such as overzealous authority types went too far, economic difficulties increased the caseload of alcohol related reports, etc. etc.

I'm sure this means you're FAS bull**** is about to re-enter the thread. :roll:

 

[Unforgiven]

Tangents? You're nuts, too. Are you two related? lol Just kidding.

I think it's the second sentence in the article:

"[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In most states a showing of harm to the child is a prerequisite for coercive intervention in child abuse or neglect proceedings. But legislatures and courts frequently assume that parental alcohol or drug misuse inevitably entails harm to the child.[/FONT]" So we should quit and let parents do what they will?

Do go off like this irl too? Tangent is almost too light a word for it. Now this woman is to be compared to a Crack addict? How long until you actualy get round to calling her Ossama?

 

[Unforgiven]

The article you posted is ALL about cocaine, with emphasis on crack cocaine. The header for Alcohol has 3 dots after and that is all. There is NO research in that article that pertains to alcohol. It looks to me like they stuck that into the title and the pre-amble for effect and effect only.

Posting that article in support of your argument against alcohol consumption by breast feeding mothers is a strawman.

Exactly! And not the only one in here either is it Wolfie?

 

[Unforgiven]

Here, I will spell it out for you, there is a problem with the legal system in the States and whether you like it or not, alcohol is bad just like cocaine and whatever other drug you can mention, I was addresssing the problem that their legal system is having with the issue and this, "[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In most states a showing of harm to the child is a prerequisite for coercive intervention in child abuse or neglect proceedings. But legislatures and courts frequently assume that parental alcohol or drug misuse inevitably entails harm to the child.[/FONT]" , in a nutshell outlines the problem that the legal system has with abusive parents.
I am sorry you can't seem to make the connection between mothers, booze, babies, cops, and the law.

Now alcohol is Crack or Heroin? You're a riot! Where do you get this stuff from DARE? Most people, upon finding that they're on such a poor foundation for argument simply move along. You clearly plant roots in the absurd and hunker down.

Seek help, just seek help.:roll:

 

[Unforgiven]

I have no problem making the connection presented in the OP...it wasn't me that brought up FAS out of the blue, and then stuck in an article that is ALL about cocaine abuse.

Why do I have this feeling that in a couple more message postings from Annag, you're going to be accused of dragging Fas and Crack back up again like old puke?

 

[Unforgiven]

Good for you.
Then you'll remember that cops (mentioned in the OP) are part of the same legal system that's having a problem about when to intervene in familial situations (the REAL topic of the article I posted) like that outlined in the OP, right?
Still dragging FAS around with you? tsk tsk

There is intervening and then there is intervening. While I am in support of the protection of children, I don't think ruining a family just in case is anything but making matters worse.

In the running around and making demons out of people based on ridiculous assumptions and ignoring the facts does far more harm that good.

 

[Unforgiven]

The OP states that the police intervened and the child aprehended because of multiple concerns with the fact that she was drunk while breast feeding the child in front of the police as being only one factor. There didn't seem to be any "problem" as far as the police were concerned and in this case she pleaded guilty to the charges. I am sure her lawyer knew about other cases from other states where women have been "let go" when it came to breast feeding and alcohol consumption, and the fact that she did plead guilty leads me to believe that the breast feeding was minor or inconsequential to the reason's for the apprehension of the child and the charges.

As for Breast feeding while consuming alcohol, there have been no studies done on this at all. All "data" has been ancedotal as to the effects of alcohol on breast feeding babies. Since there is no hard data, recomendations fall from complete abstention to a maximum of one or 2 glasses per day.

I agree with that, though I never saw anything mentioned in the police report that indicated there were other points of reference that determined the baby should be removed. Just that they called the hospital and someone told them breast feeding while drunk was bad and they had the baby taken to the hospital.

What with the data that is available being as sparse as it is, the question is when do police act and what is an appropriate response to a woman breast feeding after ingesting any amount of alcohol?

 

[Unforgiven]

I wonder why Uf is so concerned that she'll spend 5 years in prison.

Because it sets precedent.

Right. One or two of my links stated the reason why there haven't been any studies like that. The hard data available is that alcohol and any larger quantities than contained in 1 or 2 drinks is not good and that alcohol has a deleterious effect on cells especially developing cells. Everyone and their dog knows it isn't good for livers and since babies' livers cannot process it nearly as fast as grownups, it's even worse for babies than grownups. It doesn't take an Einstein to add that up.

So you've flip flopped again I see.

It's bad, a little doesn't matter for babies, any amount is bad, beer is like Crack. Pick one would you?

I will stick by my original comment about erring in favor of caution rather than letting the woman continue and possibly screwing the kid up. She probably was shook up enough that she'll be more responsible after. The judge probably thinks so, too, and would let that be that. Perhaps she or he might order that she take some sort of parenting skills course but I really think Uf's fears that she'll be jailed for 5 years are unfounded.

That's the max that can be handed down. 5 years, 3 years 2 years 1 year, it all means that she gets her baby taken away for good. What's more, depending on the out come of this case, any mother who is breast feeding can be charged on the whim of a cop or anyone who wants to swear out the information. No blood test is needed. That's a nice tool to put into the divorce war armory.

Beyond all that the boy friend who may be abusive, has a pretty good case for custody now.

Worst of all, the concept of innocent til proven guilty takes one more little knock down.

 

[CDNBear]

As for Breast feeding while consuming alcohol, there have been no studies done on this at all. All "data" has been ancedotal as to the effects of alcohol on breast feeding babies. Since there is no hard data, recomendations fall from complete abstention to a maximum of one or 2 glasses per day.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Alcohol’s Effect on Lactation[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Julie Mennella, Ph. D.[/FONT] ​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]JULIE MENNELLA, PH. D. , is a member of the Monell Chemical Senses Center, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
This research was supported by National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism grant AA 09523 and the Office of Research on Women s Health.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Although pregnant women are discouraged from drinking alcohol because of alcohol' s detrimental effect on fetal development, the lore of many cultures encourages lactating women to drink alcohol to optimize breast milk production and infant nutrition. In contrast to this folklore, however, studies demonstrate that maternal alcohol consumption may slightly reduce milk production. Furthermore, some of the alcohol consumed by a lactating woman is transferred to her milk and thus consumed by the infant. This alcohol consumption may adversely affect the infant s sleep and gross motor development and influence early learning about alcohol. Based on this science, it would seem that the recommendation for a nursing mother to drink a glass of beer or wine shortly before nursing may actually be counterproductive.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]

Alcohol' s Effect on Lactation

I think there have been a few studies Gh...

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]References [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]HEIL, S. H. ; HUNGUND, B. L. ; ZHENG, Z. H. ; JEN, K. L. ; AND SUBRAMANIAN, M. G. Ethanol and lactation: Effects of milk lipids and serum constituents. Alcohol 18: 43 48, 1999. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]HUNT, P. S. ; KRAEBEL, K. S. ; RABINE, H. ; SPEAR, L. P. ; AND SPEAR, N. E. Enhanced ethanol intake in preweanling rats following exposure to ethanol in a nursing context. Developmental Psychobiology 26: 133 153, 1993. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]KREBS, R. Making Friends Is Our Business 100 Years of Anheuser-Busch . Missouri: A-B Inc. , 1953. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]LAWTON, M. E. Alcohol in breast milk. Australian Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology 25: 71 73, 1985. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]LITTLE, R. E. Maternal use of alcohol and breast-fed infants. New England Journal of Medicine 322: 339, 1990. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]LITTLE, R. E. ; LAMBERT, M. D. ; AND WORTHINGTON * ROBERTS, B. Drinking and smoking at 3 months postpartum by lactation history. Paediatric and Perinatal Epidemiology 4: 290 302, 1989. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]LITTLE, R. E. ; ANDERSON, K. W. ; ERVIN, C. H. ; WORTHINGTON-ROBERTS, B. ; AND CLARREN, S. K. Maternal alcohol use during breast feeding and infant mental and motor development at one year. New England Journal of Medicine 321: 425 430, 1990. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MENDELSON, W. B. , AND HILL, S. Y. : Effects of the acute administration of ethanol on the sleep of the rat: A dose-response study. Pharmacology, Biochemistry and Behavior 8: 723 726, 1978.

MENNELLA, J. A. The human infant s suckling responses to the flavor of alcohol in mother s milk. Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research 21: 581 585, 1997. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MENNELLA, J. A. The transfer of alcohol to human milk: Sensory implications and effects on mother-infant interaction. In: Hannigan J. H. ; Spear, N. ; Spear, L. ; and Goodlett, C. R. , eds. Alcohol and Alcoholism: Brain and Development . New Jersey: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, Inc. , 1999. pp. 177 198. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MENNELLA, J. A. , AND BEAUCHAMP, G. K. The transfer of alcohol to human milk: Effects on flavor and the infant' s behavior. New England Journal of Medicine 325: 981 985, 1991. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MENNELLA, J. A. , AND BEAUCHAMP, G. K. Beer, breast feeding and folklore. Developmental Psycho-biology 26: 459 466, 1993. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MENNELLA, J. A. , AND BEAUCHAMP, G. K. The infant' s response to scented toys: Effects of expo-sure. Chemical Senses 23: 11 17, 1998. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MENNELLA, J. A. , AND GARCIA, P. J. The child' s hedonic response to the smell of alcohol: Effects of parental drinking habits. Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research 24: 1167 1171, 2000. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MENNELLA, J. A. , AND GERRISH, C. J. Effects of exposure to alcohol in mother s milk on infant sleep. Pediatrics 101( 5) : 21-25, 1998. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MILLER, P. M. ; SMITH, G. T. ; AND GOLDMAN, M. S. Emergence of alcohol expectancies in childhood: A possible critical period. Journal of Studies on Alcohol 31: 343 349, 1990. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MOLINA, J. C. ; DOMINGUEZ, H. D. ; LOPEZ, M. F. ; PEPINO, M. Y. ; AND FAAS, A. E. The role of fetal and infantile experience with alcohol in later recognition and acceptance patterns of the drug. In: Hannigan, J. H. ; Spear, N. ; Spear, L. ; and Goodlett, C. R. , eds. Alcohol and Alcoholism: Brain and Development . New Jersey: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, Inc. , 1999. pp. 199 228.

MOLINA, J. C. ; PEPINO, M. Y. ; JOHNSON, J. ; AND SPEAR, N. E. The infant rat learns about alcohol through interaction with an intoxicated mother. Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research 24: 428 437, 2000. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MULDER, E. J. H. ; MORSSINK, L. P. ; VAN DER SCHEE, T. ; AND VISSER, G. H. A. Acute maternal alcohol consumption disrupts behavioral state organization in the near-term fetus . Pediatric Research 44: 774 779, 1998. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NOLL, R. B. ; ZUCKER, R. A. ; AND GREENBERG, G. S. Identification of alcohol by smell among preschoolers: evidence for early socialization about drugs in the home . Child Development 61: 1520 1527, 1990. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SUBRAMANIAN, M. G. Alcohol inhibits suckling-induced oxytocin release in the lactating rat. Alcohol 19: 51 55, 1999. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SUBRAMANIAN, M. G. , AND ABEL, E. L. Alcohol inhibits suckling-induced prolactin release and milk yield. Alcohol 5: 95 98, 1988. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SWIATEK; K. R. ; DOMBROWSKI JR. , G. J. ; AND CHAO, K. -L. The inefficient transfer of maternally fed alcohol to nursing rats. Alcohol 3: 169 174, 1986. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]VILAR ó, S. ; VIÑAS, O. ; REMESAR, X. ; AND HERRERA, E. Effects of chronic ethanol consumption on lactational performance in the rat: Mammary gland and milk composition and pups growth and metabolism. . Pharmacology Biochemistry and Behavior 27: 333 339, 1987.WIERS, R. W. ; GUNNING, W. B. ; AND SERGEANT, J. A. Do young children of alcoholics hold more positive or negative alcohol-related expectancies than controls. Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research 22: 1855 1863, 1998. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]WILLIAMS, D. L. ; MACLEAN, A. W. ; AND CAIRNS, J. Dose-response effects of ethanol on the sleep of young women. Journal of Studies on Alcohol 44: 515 523, 1983[/FONT]

 

[Unforgiven]

It should be pointed out that NIAAA has been accused of bias. How much that effects the documents they post as research is anyone's guess at the moment.
Not to discredit or affirm, simply to inform.

 

[Cannuck]

lol What generalisation?

... and alcohol is bad for babies.

For starters...

 

[Hazmart]

This thread has been getting way off topic. If you have an issue with another member, take it to the cage.

This thread will be closed for review.