So that's two groups....who gets to be the lucky third? The Jews just recently came back and aren't numerous enough yet. So that leaves the blacks, hindus, east asians and that other group in Spain.
Chancellor Angela Merkel declares "Multiculturalism has failed"
- Thread starter petros
- Start date
Most of Europe is now dealing with a self made problem. The Middle Easterners were brought in for cheap labor and in the case of England and France where a large colonial empire was once for those working in indentured servitude. Now those folks are citizens and are asking to have the laws of their religion as a part of the laws of the new nation in which they reside. My only reaction is "Why don't those people who are not content with the laws of their new home just return to their country of origin where those laws are practiced?" The Netherlands, Germany and France would probably be glad to accomodate them with a one way ticket home. Australia has already taken that approach. If I wasn't happy with my nation I'd sure consider emigrating to a nation that fit my ideals more.
It sure is great to look down on the other guy, especially when one is in the majority!
Quite right. It was not until quite recently that immigrants to Germany from countries like Turkey were allowed to become German citizens. This is quite different from the way immigrants have been welcomed into Canada. It turns out that giving immigrants citizenship early is more likely to encourage them to become a part of the culture of the host nation, particularly if they are allowed to immigrate as families. Classifying people as foreigners decades after they arrived in a country turns out to not be particularly conducive to encouraging them become part of mainstream society.
Merkel did not say she wanted all foreigners out, she does want immigrants to assimilate
and that is a trend across Europe. Some do want the certain groups out of the country.
France, and the Netherlands want the Muslims out and the current governments are siding
with their base voters to make things more difficult. Merkel said multiculturalism is not
working and that is true to a large extent. Those coming not only from Muslim backgrounds,
but from eastern Europe as well are not mixing in they are staying in their own little conclaves.
The Muslims keep to themselves as well. This is causing suspicion and the ever increasing
nationalist right wing is able to mount successful anti Muslim campaigns. The people are the
ones leading the governments to act. Usually you tend to find nationalistic leaders looking
for votes who stir this kind of thing up.
The problem is the economy is slipping in Europe as it is here, little by little but in the European
centers its more pronounced. As unemployment increases, and prospects fade, financial
security dwindles and more and more people look and compete for the lower end jobs or for
second jobs, they will blame foreigners for taking their jobs whether it is justified or not.
We have seen these slow trends before, and Hitler did capitalize on those sentiments.
Here in the west we claim the problem will be south of the boarder and we buy new rose coloured
glasses and believe we are an economic safe zone. There is no safe zone. Europe is showing
the wear and tear and frustration from its economic slippage. America is next, and we are not
that far behind. Unfortunately the scheme, the world trade, and all the deals our governments
entered into will be our undoing. I don't like the growing social nationalism that is growing by the
month. It leads to finger pointing blame and ultimately the destabilizing of a nation.
My father who fought in Europe in WWII always said if he could little kids in Italy eating out of
garbage cans, it could happen here. I hope Europe and the west in general will take a step back
from the kind of frustration that is building. i see more and more anti Muslim and ethnic statements
lately and it bothers me. I personally find it difficult to hate people I don't know, doesn't make
sense to me.
and that is a trend across Europe. Some do want the certain groups out of the country.
France, and the Netherlands want the Muslims out and the current governments are siding
with their base voters to make things more difficult. Merkel said multiculturalism is not
working and that is true to a large extent. Those coming not only from Muslim backgrounds,
but from eastern Europe as well are not mixing in they are staying in their own little conclaves.
The Muslims keep to themselves as well. This is causing suspicion and the ever increasing
nationalist right wing is able to mount successful anti Muslim campaigns. The people are the
ones leading the governments to act. Usually you tend to find nationalistic leaders looking
for votes who stir this kind of thing up.
The problem is the economy is slipping in Europe as it is here, little by little but in the European
centers its more pronounced. As unemployment increases, and prospects fade, financial
security dwindles and more and more people look and compete for the lower end jobs or for
second jobs, they will blame foreigners for taking their jobs whether it is justified or not.
We have seen these slow trends before, and Hitler did capitalize on those sentiments.
Here in the west we claim the problem will be south of the boarder and we buy new rose coloured
glasses and believe we are an economic safe zone. There is no safe zone. Europe is showing
the wear and tear and frustration from its economic slippage. America is next, and we are not
that far behind. Unfortunately the scheme, the world trade, and all the deals our governments
entered into will be our undoing. I don't like the growing social nationalism that is growing by the
month. It leads to finger pointing blame and ultimately the destabilizing of a nation.
My father who fought in Europe in WWII always said if he could little kids in Italy eating out of
garbage cans, it could happen here. I hope Europe and the west in general will take a step back
from the kind of frustration that is building. i see more and more anti Muslim and ethnic statements
lately and it bothers me. I personally find it difficult to hate people I don't know, doesn't make
sense to me.
Germany had exploited the cheap labour for long years ,giving citizens of Turkey(Kurds citizens from Turkey mostly) chance to have access to Germany without any required rights except for gaining money.
unexpectedly , those workers started to settle there and left their families behind being part of Germany(who didn't calculate the result to be like this). They were not educated-knew German as they needed ...
Germany should have considered those workers as human and tried to assimilate(not exceeding their some rights), cinsidered not disposable labour- given rights and education for culture and language of Germany ,then WORK at the right beginning.
common sense arrived there late but it is better than nothing.
now, the offsprings of those workers in Germany get the chance to study and be educated , the case is different now-there began some groupings among youngs especially-"others and Nazis".
it is also irritating.
of course, the immigrants should also keep up with the people, laws and culture of country which they chose to live in if they want to be in peace.
unexpectedly , those workers started to settle there and left their families behind being part of Germany(who didn't calculate the result to be like this). They were not educated-knew German as they needed ...
Germany should have considered those workers as human and tried to assimilate(not exceeding their some rights), cinsidered not disposable labour- given rights and education for culture and language of Germany ,then WORK at the right beginning.
common sense arrived there late but it is better than nothing.
now, the offsprings of those workers in Germany get the chance to study and be educated , the case is different now-there began some groupings among youngs especially-"others and Nazis".
it is also irritating.
of course, the immigrants should also keep up with the people, laws and culture of country which they chose to live in if they want to be in peace.
No one forced the Turks to go to Germany and work, in fact, had the Turkish gvt managed its affairs on a more progressive basis, there would have been work for those people in Turkey. That said, based on your logic, the Turks that immigrated to Germany for the work/money exploited German society just as much as you suggest that the Germans exploited the Turks for the labour.
From the German perspective, they would likely state that it is the Turks that are exploiting German society in that they did not respect the collective Germans right to recognize German culture.
both exploited each other. i agree with that. If Turks are so irritaed , they should come to their homeland -If Germany is so irritated , she should stop talking and make logical laws for its interests but not leave his workers as miserable because Germany benefit from them.
That advice could easily be applied to everyone in any nation to "citizens" and non-citizens alike
The difference between a Republic and a Democracy.
If there are 8 wolves and 1 sheep and it's time to vote for lunch......
Multiculturalism is cultural suicide.
And the host country's culture is the superior culture.....
or the immigrants wouldn't be fleeing their old countries to go there.
(It is called linear thought)
And the host country's culture is the superior culture.....
or the immigrants wouldn't be fleeing their old countries to go there.
(It is called linear thought)
No Multi Culturalism means no Immigration -No one to pay the bills as they say
It would also stop Canada from becoming a commodities king this century
Multi culturaism can and does work - It is the extrememists on both ends that cause the problems.
Non linear thought - But Logical as hell
I have a problem with some of the definitions of exploitation in this thread. People seeking low-paid jobs in other nations are not guilty of exploitation of anyone; they are simply fulfilling a useful role in the nation that required their labour. Any nation that imports people and uses them as a source of cheap labour and then expels them whenever they become inconvenient is guilty of exploitation of those people; especially when many of them have been in the country for several decades without being offered citizenship.
Forcing people desperate for work into some sort of legal limbo for decades is hardly conducive to helping them become a full part of the society to which they emmigrated. In fact there are hundreds of thousands of second and third generation migrants to Germany who have fully integrated in spite of legal restrictions imposed upon them. They speak German, read German, listen to Western music, and participate fully in many other aspects of German culture. To call multiculturalism in Germany a failure so far as these migrants are concerned is nonsense. They are German in every respect except their religion and physical appearance. If they build mosques so what? That hardly undermines mainstream German culture.
Forcing people desperate for work into some sort of legal limbo for decades is hardly conducive to helping them become a full part of the society to which they emmigrated. In fact there are hundreds of thousands of second and third generation migrants to Germany who have fully integrated in spite of legal restrictions imposed upon them. They speak German, read German, listen to Western music, and participate fully in many other aspects of German culture. To call multiculturalism in Germany a failure so far as these migrants are concerned is nonsense. They are German in every respect except their religion and physical appearance. If they build mosques so what? That hardly undermines mainstream German culture.
Gotta disagree with you there. Not supporting multi-culturalism does not necessarily equate to eliminating immigration. I believe that the basic point being made is that any nation has its own identity and to actively and aggressively morph that identity is a disservice to all... The character of a community/nation etc. will evolve all on its own within the general parameters of that society.
Lobby groups, protectionist policies and punitive taxes/tariffs are the biggest obstacles to this.
A policy of not actively supporting multi-culturalism also works and is likely more effective in subduing the extremeist groups before they get a strong foot hold in a community.